99 réponses à ce sujet

[lukandroll]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

And you dishonor them.

Ohh!! shame on me!

Modifié par lukandroll, 16 février 2010 - 07:18 .

[SlySpy00]

RPG vs. Shooter.



Who wins?



Deus Ex.

[jkruse05]

I know people are probably gonna try ripping into me for this but...Doesn't anyone enjoy games on their own merits anymore? I mean really, all this bull**** about what defines a genre, get over it, not every game can nor will conform to your idea of perfect, find the ones you like and play them, don't **** about what you can't change. As for the debate in this particular thread, there is no reason RPGs and Shooters can't be combined, and no reason a person can't enjoy both. I've played more of each than I can likely remember, in fact, I'd consider them my two favorite genres. Now before you go off saying, oh he's just another stupid shooter fanboy that wouldn't know an RPG if it kicked him in crotch, I beg to differ. I've played games considered 'hardcore' in both genres (although that definition in itself is shattered by the mere fact that I played them, as I am no hardcore gamer) and intend to continue doing so in the future. Mass Effect 2, for me, was a wondrous game, It had it's problems, as all games do, but because I expecting little beyond some 30 - 40 hours of fun gaming I was not dissapointed.



On the other (off topic) discussion, who the hell decided anyone had to exclusively devote themselves to PC or Console? Why can't we enjoy some games on both? The PC does have some distinct advantages in power and customizeability, but sometimes a person wants to relax while they play, which is where consoles come in. There's no reason a gamer, i.e. one who's primary hobby is playing video games, can't relax and enjoy his hobby once in a while without sitting in a stiff chair with his face two feet from the screen. On the flip side when a more competitive or custom atmosphere is desired it is often preferable to play on the PC. I personally use both, granted, I have a lot more PC games than console games, but most of them are either on Steam or quite old. Despite where you play you're going to enjoy a variety of experiences with varying degrees of depth and quality. There is no end all be all game on PC nor any console, they're all still games, there to entertain us, how you access them makes no difference.

[EternalWolfe]

jkruse05 wrote...

I know people are probably gonna try ripping into me for this but...Doesn't anyone enjoy games on their own merits anymore? I mean really, all this bull**** about what defines a genre, get over it, not every game can nor will conform to your idea of perfect, find the ones you like and play them, don't **** about what you can't change. As for the debate in this particular thread, there is no reason RPGs and Shooters can't be combined, and no reason a person can't enjoy both. I've played more of each than I can likely remember, in fact, I'd consider them my two favorite genres. Now before you go off saying, oh he's just another stupid shooter fanboy that wouldn't know an RPG if it kicked him in crotch, I beg to differ. I've played games considered 'hardcore' in both genres (although that definition in itself is shattered by the mere fact that I played them, as I am no hardcore gamer) and intend to continue doing so in the future. Mass Effect 2, for me, was a wondrous game, It had it's problems, as all games do, but because I expecting little beyond some 30 - 40 hours of fun gaming I was not dissapointed.

On the other (off topic) discussion, who the hell decided anyone had to exclusively devote themselves to PC or Console? Why can't we enjoy some games on both? The PC does have some distinct advantages in power and customizeability, but sometimes a person wants to relax while they play, which is where consoles come in. There's no reason a gamer, i.e. one who's primary hobby is playing video games, can't relax and enjoy his hobby once in a while without sitting in a stiff chair with his face two feet from the screen. On the flip side when a more competitive or custom atmosphere is desired it is often preferable to play on the PC. I personally use both, granted, I have a lot more PC games than console games, but most of them are either on Steam or quite old. Despite where you play you're going to enjoy a variety of experiences with varying degrees of depth and quality. There is no end all be all game on PC nor any console, they're all still games, there to entertain us, how you access them makes no difference.

This.  I don't understand people who take a stance on a single idea(be it genre or platform) and then decide that its the only one that matters.  I don't care if you don't like other types of games,  or if you don't like playing on a different platform, but you aren't special and you aren't better then the others.

And if you truely believe you are, well . . . I m am a God of Gaming, master of many genres, unfettered by platforms.

"And he looked out upon the masses, each tied unto their own, and listened to their cries as they claimed their way would be the only True Way of gaming.  He felt disgust and said unto himself, 'Fools.', and turned from their prayers . . ."  System Failure, Chapter 8, Verse 3

[Hizoka003]

PC gamers = smart kids in school

Console Gamers = too dumb to be called a smart kid


the majority of PC gamers build their rigs to the point that they make an XBox look like a toaster by comparision. For a long time Bioware was a PC only game company the redefined how DnD based RPGs should be made, then they made KOTOR a PC/Xbox game while still DnD based it was half the length of most their previous games.

Consoles and their games have managed one thing, they are completely content with a 20 hour game being a long content rich game, Sorry but RPGs used to be 50+ hour long games wether it be DnD style RPG or a JRPG they were long story rich games, now you have these instant gradtfication turds that think its too long if the game cannot be 100% completed in a week end. Hell some games now can be beat in a sitting.

I do not care if you dislike JRPGs or DnD based RPGs the fact is thats where the genre started without DnD there would be no RPGs, and sorry to burst your bubble but one of the main focuses of an RPG of any style is charater growth, you start weak the get stronger, there is no good RPG where you start uber and get slightly more uber.


In ME2 all you need is a pistol and you can beat the game with any class any difficulty and never spending a talent point, that is not an RPG that is the same as every other shooter ever made

Modifié par Hizoka003, 16 février 2010 - 05:41 .

[Hizoka003]

bump

[BrotherJason]

I personally have never played a JRPG on PC as I have never played one any shorter than 50-100 hours in total play time. So while I agree to the point, that there are little to no differences between many console games (especially in the action genre), I entirely disagree with the playtime argument regarding RPGs.

By the way it's not the consoles fault that developers think they have to increase their development expenses even further with every game resulting in them to cut content rather than evaluate if all those extra- investments are even neccessary.

[Hizoka003]

BrotherJason wrote...

I personally have never played a JRPG on PC as I have never played one any shorter than 50-100 hours in total play time. So while I agree to the point, that there are little to no differences between many console games (especially in the action genre), I entirely disagree with the playtime argument regarding RPGs.

By the way it's not the consoles fault that developers think they have to increase their development expenses even further with every game resulting in them to cut content rather than evaluate if all those extra- investments are even neccessary.

so you are saying that a so called RPG likr ME2 that any decent player can full clear in 20-30 hours is the same as a real RPG that like 2 to 3 times that?

please name an XBox title thats a 50 hour game

[BrotherJason]

Hizoka003 wrote...
so you are saying that a so called RPG likr ME2 that any decent player can full clear in 20-30 hours is the same as a real RPG that like 2 to 3 times that?

No I did not say that.

please name an XBox title thats a 50 hour game

Here's two: Star Ocean and Eternal Sonata.The first alone took me way over 50 hours to complete. Though I have to admit I don't speedrun games so I don't know how much time an uber-gamer would spend completing them.

[javierabegazo]

Every time my eyes run over this thread's title, I always hear the song "It's the Final Countdown!!!" in my head

[Aidunno]

It's not about labels, it's about enjoyment. Normally I don't like shooters. ME2 I like. That's what matters to me and should be, in my opinion, what others should be bothered about. Not liking something just because it doesn't fit into what you think it should be because of a label is, to put in frankly, silly.

Every time my eyes run over this thread's title, I always hear the song "It's the Final Countdown!!!" in my head

Showing age a bit there..

Modifié par Aidunno, 16 février 2010 - 06:22 .

[javierabegazo]

Aidunno wrote...

Every time my eyes run over this thread's title, I always hear the song "It's the Final Countdown!!!" in my head

Showing age a bit there..

lol, and yet I'm only 21 years old, I'd say I'm more showing the effects of hanging out with a certain friend who maintains a fanatical obsession with the 80's

[Aidunno]

OK.. so it's me showing ageism...

[MPaBkaTa123]

Hizoka003 wrote...

PC gamers = smart kids in school

Console Gamers = too dumb to be called a smart kid


the majority of PC gamers build their rigs to the point that they make an XBox look like a toaster by comparision. For a long time Bioware was a PC only game company the redefined how DnD based RPGs should be made, then they made KOTOR a PC/Xbox game while still DnD based it was half the length of most their previous games.

Consoles and their games have managed one thing, they are completely content with a 20 hour game being a long content rich game, Sorry but RPGs used to be 50+ hour long games wether it be DnD style RPG or a JRPG they were long story rich games, now you have these instant gradtfication turds that think its too long if the game cannot be 100% completed in a week end. Hell some games now can be beat in a sitting.

I do not care if you dislike JRPGs or DnD based RPGs the fact is thats where the genre started without DnD there would be no RPGs, and sorry to burst your bubble but one of the main focuses of an RPG of any style is charater growth, you start weak the get stronger, there is no good RPG where you start uber and get slightly more uber.


In ME2 all you need is a pistol and you can beat the game with any class any difficulty and never spending a talent point, that is not an RPG that is the same as every other shooter ever made

You again? I thought you left the forums out of hatred of "False RPGs". I personally use a PC , but i am sick and tired of random people on forums ragging on and on about how console users are idiots and claiming that all rpgs not using the DnD system are horrible. You according to the other things you've posted on these forums seem to believe that all shooter fans and all console users are morons incapable of grasping the "High Art" that is the RPG. Yes , while DnD may have created the genre it does not mean that every RPG only has the right to include minor alterations because that way you would just do the same thing again and again losing the variety of the genre. Combining shooters and rpgs is an interesting idea and i believe ME1 and 2 ,mostly the second one because the first while great really loved its generic passive bonuses that do jack ****, are a good variation on the common game and in their own way are great.

[javierabegazo]

Hizoka003 wrote...

so you are saying that a so called RPG likr ME2 that any decent player can full clear in 20-30 hours is the same as a real RPG that like 2 to 3 times that?

Please do tell what you consider being a "decent player"

For me, I imported an ME1 save game into ME2
Then I

• Watched every dialog piece, never skipped a line
• Read every codex entry
• Explored every planet, read all the descriptions
• Did every side quest, loyalty mission
• Got every upgrade
• Played the game on Insanity, forcing myself to use tactics and engage in more intelligent battles

When playing a game that is a cinematic experience like Mass Effect 2, those things I consider factor into being a "decent player" and I assure you, if you were to do all those things, there's no way your playthrough would be at or under 30 hours.

I see so many whining about hours, and that a "true RPG should be 50-100hours"
While I conceed that exploration of environments was downgraded in ME2, the over all experience, the digital acting, the VA, the branching paths, those all to me are far more welcome than a linear path, with an experience of a much lower fidelity.

I remember playing FF7 and having a 78 hour playthrough, but you know what? The Mass Effect Games, being what they've always been, a TPS-RPG hybrid, the playthrough hours will always be shorter than the typical Full RPG simply because of how combat works in the game. There is a much less focus on the tedium of Level Grinding, (despite how I actually enjoyed that). Seeing simple text come up from characters, not having the characters live and breath, and really act alive, is a much more cost effective approach, as well as being one that consumes more time but I find it absolutely inane to compare the two, and to go so far as to say that "Longer always = Better"

[medlish]

Just wanted to drop in and say that competitive shooter are not just about aim. Team shooters are tactics/strategy + aim while 1on1 focused games are mapcontrol + aim. High tier games are mostly not decided by aim but by the various other factors. For example in a 1on1 game, it is elemental to time the important items and try to get them. I would say in most games it's even more important than aim itself.

[obie191970]

Hizoka003 wrote...

PC gamers = smart kids in school

Console Gamers = too dumb to be called a smart kid

As an Ivy League educated console gamer, I find your simplification to be laughable.  I played for years and years on a PC until I discovered the beauty of playing games on a 60" LCD with a high end surround sound system while lounging comfortably on the sofa.  It's a game, it's fun - If you feel the need to feel superior because you game on a high end PC, then I would suggest getting out of the house more often.

[MPaBkaTa123]

javierabegazo wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

so you are saying that a so called RPG likr ME2 that any decent player can full clear in 20-30 hours is the same as a real RPG that like 2 to 3 times that?

Please do tell what you consider being a "decent player"

For me, I imported an ME1 save game into ME2
Then I

• Watched every dialog piece, never skipped a line
• Read every codex entry
• Explored every planet, read all the descriptions
• Did every side quest, loyalty mission
• Got every upgrade
• Played the game on Insanity, forcing myself to use tactics and engage in more intelligent battles

When playing a game that is a cinematic experience like Mass Effect 2, those things I consider factor into being a "decent player" and I assure you, if you were to do all those things, there's no way your playthrough would be at or under 30 hours.

I see so many whining about hours, and that a "true RPG should be 50-100hours"
While I conceed that exploration of environments was downgraded in ME2, the over all experience, the digital acting, the VA, the branching paths, those all to me are far more welcome than a linear path, with an experience of a much lower fidelity.

I remember playing FF7 and having a 78 hour playthrough, but you know what? The Mass Effect Games, being what they've always been, a TPS-RPG hybrid, the playthrough hours will always be shorter than the typical Full RPG simply because of how combat works in the game. There is a much less focus on the tedium of Level Grinding, (despite how I actually enjoyed that). Seeing simple text come up from characters, not having the characters live and breath, and really act alive, is a much more cost effective approach, as well as being one that consumes more time but I find it absolutely inane to compare the two, and to go so far as to say that "Longer always = Better"

[*]No offense but i suggest you don't bother I've tried arguing/discussing with him before and all i got was being called a console kiddie and readin the same line about true rpgs a thousand times.

[Schneidend]

There is no showdown. Mass Effect 1 was an RPG-shooter, and so is Mass Effect 2. The only difference is that the shooting elements of the sequel were improved. This whole "RPG elements were dumbed down" movement is just a meme that somehow gained an extraordinary amount of ground. It has absolutely no basis in reality whatsoever. It's just that an extremely vocal minority yells it often and as loudly as possible.

[spernus]

Hizoka003 wrote...

PC gamers = smart kids in school

Console Gamers = too dumb to be called a smart kid

Idiotic statement,since a lot of gamers started on console because they didn't have an home computer or their parents couldn't afford or didn't care to get one.

Not only that,these 50+ hours rpg are usually loaded with grinding or monster bashing.For example,how much content is there in a final Fantasy game? Probably 15 hours or so of actual story progression,cutscene and the rest being monster bashing.

[valiala]

ME2 is RPG in the sense of playing a role, but when speaking of classic RPG features it really falls short

no loot, no XP for killing, no big cities, very simple skill tree, and so on



people wanting a traditional RPG should play Dragon Age or even Too Human

although I wish Mass Effect was more similar to those games, it doesnt make the game bad at all

[lukandroll]

obie191970 wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

PC gamers = smart kids in school

Console Gamers = too dumb to be called a smart kid

As an Ivy League educated console gamer, I find your simplification to be laughable.  I played for years and years on a PC until I discovered the beauty of playing games on a 60" LCD with a high end surround sound system while lounging comfortably on the sofa.  It's a game, it's fun - If you feel the need to feel superior because you game on a high end PC, then I would suggest getting out of the house more often.

So, You can't play the PC on the couch, no no no, you have to be at 2 cm from the monitor. Also, you can't hook up the PC to the HDTV, nop. And the surround system only works if conected to a console.
Please, GTFO.

Modifié par lukandroll, 16 février 2010 - 07:19 .

[MPaBkaTa123]

[Insert 3 pages worth of console and pc war here]

[lukandroll]

Schneidend wrote...

There is no showdown. Mass Effect 1 was an RPG-shooter, and so is Mass Effect 2. The only difference is that the shooting elements of the sequel were improved. This whole "RPG elements were dumbed down" movement is just a meme that somehow gained an extraordinary amount of ground. It has absolutely no basis in reality whatsoever. It's just that an extremely vocal minority yells it often and as loudly as possible.

Minority? Yeah, keep saying to yourself that... in the meantime, more threads about how dumbed down ME2 is, are still being made at an alarming rate.

Also, ME2 its not the same as ME1. Bioware choose to improve the shooter mechanics and scrap the majority of the RPG mechanics instead of fixing them.
BioWare choose to make ME2 a casual friendly game, its their decision, and ITS clearly designed that way.
Don't lie yourself, ME2 is not like ME1, nor ever wanted to be. ME2 was built from the ground to be more casual, accesible and less RPGs than ME1. (Because the term "RPG" scare possible buyers away, accoring to BioWare)

Modifié par lukandroll, 16 février 2010 - 07:17 .