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Arik7 wrote...
Yeah, the troll just looks pathetic when ignored.FataliTensei wrote...
diskoh wrote...
I'm proud of everyone for the silent treatment on the trolls. Let's keep that up and make this a good thread.
Silent treatment is the best one i guess
Erode_The_Soul wrote...
tmelange wrote...
The definition of homophobe: someone with an irrational fear of homosexuality. It's a simple term applicable to anyone who feels they can not stand to be tainted by a line of flirty text applied to a person of the same gender to such an extent that they need to toggle it off. Don't attribute offense to me, or inflate the definition of the word and attribute your definition to me, or state that I'm not being respectful by calling a type of behavior by its definition. Thanks.
Whoa, calm down. There's really no need to be so defensive; I certainly meant no offense. I'm just trying to prevent flame wars, as throwing around the word "homophobe" when someone mentions their discomoft of the idea is often cited as a reason for the closure of the threads.
In my opinion, and from my perception of your comments, you are drawing a LOT of conclusions about someone based on very little info. What about his comment leads you to believe he actually literally fears homosexuals? That he would feel tainted by their inclusion into the game? A toggle has been suggested many times before, with support from those supporting same-sex inclusion, and no one suggested or expressed their belief that this was a homophobic idea.
Feeling uncomfortable when being hit on, whether its from a person of your own gender or opposite, is not tantamount to fear, hatred or disgust of those individuals. It's simply discomfort and, at least from my perspective, is perfectly understandable and not enough to warrant being called a homophobe.
What I was suggesting was that you not jump to conclusions just because they may be uncomfortable with this idea.
Modifié par tmelange, 16 février 2010 - 04:24 .
tmelange wrote...
Respectfully, I really don't agree with you on the definition and use of the word homophobe, and we're going to have to agree to disagree. You say that the word homophobe is inappropriate when someone mentions their "discomfort" with the idea of m/m romance in game; I say it's entirely appropriate to call something an irrational fear of m/m sex when the person is positing unequal treatment for one segment of the audience based on an inability to simply ignore a line of text. The notion is apparently so discomforting that the option needs to be turned off so as not to taint a person's "normal" experience, because it's impossible for heterosexuality and homosexuality to exist side-by-side equally. They need to be separate...but "equal". Homophobia.
Stop settling for solutions that treat gays like second class citizens; stop assuming that the same-gender love is somehow aberrant and needs to be closeted in such a way that "normal" people don't have to look at it. Stop tolerating people's homophobia by enabling separate but (not exactly) equal solutions. Call homophobia what it is, when it is the reason for the need for a "solution".
Modifié par Erode_The_Soul, 16 février 2010 - 04:29 .
Erode_The_Soul wrote...
tmelange wrote...
Respectfully, I really don't agree with you on the definition and use of the word homophobe, and we're going to have to agree to disagree. You say that the word homophobe is inappropriate when someone mentions their "discomfort" with the idea of m/m romance in game; I say it's entirely appropriate to call something an irrational fear of m/m sex when the person is positing unequal treatment for one segment of the audience based on an inability to simply ignore a line of text. The notion is apparently so discomforting that the option needs to be turned off so as not to taint a person's "normal" experience, because it's impossible for heterosexuality and homosexuality to exist side-by-side equally. They need to be separate...but "equal". Homophobia.
Stop settling for solutions that treat gays like second class citizens; stop assuming that the same-gender love is somehow aberrant and needs to be closeted in such a way that "normal" people don't have to look at it. Stop tolerating people's homophobia by enabling separate but (not exactly) equal solutions. Call homophobia what it is, when it is the reason for the need for a "solution".
Okay, fair enough; agree to disagree. But, while I can't persuade you to stop making assumptions about others, I will at least ask you to extend me that courtesy, and not make assumptions about me. Let's carry on, then, yeah?
Grilled Trout wrote...
tmelange,
What you are doing is making this discussion into social and political topic, which is NOT what most people want this to end up. This is purely about Mass Effect the video game and how a certain special interest group as yourselves want a certain feature included in the game to make their gaming experience enjoyable.
If you want some sort of respect for your sexuality, then you are also gonna have to respect that there will be people who will be bothered and feel repulsive towards NPCs of same sex in the game making sexual advances and comments. Obviously, people want to work on some middle ground so that everyone can be happy. I have my doubts as to whether or not this will work. And I have made it very clear in the previous threads that I will support a perfectly middle ground option as long as I am not forced into listening to bunch of male characters hitting on my male Shepard.
So take it easy and treat this as a video game issue, and don't turn this into a social and political issue. It makes these threads look bad, turns it into flame wars that attract people posting in the pure interest to annoy others, and end up getting locked all over again.
Modifié par PrideofMen, 16 février 2010 - 04:40 .
tmelange wrote...
Grilled Trout wrote...
tmelange,
What you are doing is making this discussion into social and political topic, which is NOT what most people want this to end up. This is purely about Mass Effect the video game and how a certain special interest group as yourselves want a certain feature included in the game to make their gaming experience enjoyable.
If you want some sort of respect for your sexuality, then you are also gonna have to respect that there will be people who will be bothered and feel repulsive towards NPCs of same sex in the game making sexual advances and comments. Obviously, people want to work on some middle ground so that everyone can be happy. I have my doubts as to whether or not this will work. And I have made it very clear in the previous threads that I will support a perfectly middle ground option as long as I am not forced into listening to bunch of male characters hitting on my male Shepard.
So take it easy and treat this as a video game issue, and don't turn this into a social and political issue. It makes these threads look bad, turns it into flame wars that attract people posting in the pure interest to annoy others, and end up getting locked all over again.
Grilled Trout, do me a favor; don't assume you know anything about my sexuality, or presume to lecture me about it. Thanks.
Modifié par FataliTensei, 16 février 2010 - 04:41 .
tmelange wrote...
Making assumptions about you? I make no assumptions about you, despite the fact that you've attributed erroneous meaning to my posts, feel that you have standing to do so, and have stated that I'm being defensive, when I'm simply stating my thoughts and opinions. Please brush up on your reading comprehension. The bolded text assumes nothing about YOU.
Modifié par Erode_The_Soul, 16 février 2010 - 04:47 .
FataliTensei wrote...
tmelange wrote...
Grilled Trout wrote...
tmelange,
What you are doing is making this discussion into social and political topic, which is NOT what most people want this to end up. This is purely about Mass Effect the video game and how a certain special interest group as yourselves want a certain feature included in the game to make their gaming experience enjoyable.
If you want some sort of respect for your sexuality, then you are also gonna have to respect that there will be people who will be bothered and feel repulsive towards NPCs of same sex in the game making sexual advances and comments. Obviously, people want to work on some middle ground so that everyone can be happy. I have my doubts as to whether or not this will work. And I have made it very clear in the previous threads that I will support a perfectly middle ground option as long as I am not forced into listening to bunch of male characters hitting on my male Shepard.
So take it easy and treat this as a video game issue, and don't turn this into a social and political issue. It makes these threads look bad, turns it into flame wars that attract people posting in the pure interest to annoy others, and end up getting locked all over again.
Grilled Trout, do me a favor; don't assume you know anything about my sexuality, or presume to lecture me about it. Thanks.
While some of your points are good, you really should calm down, the way your text is coming off is agressive, and it's toward people who support the same-sex option
Modifié par tmelange, 16 février 2010 - 05:14 .
Modifié par JaylaClark, 16 février 2010 - 04:59 .
JaylaClark wrote...
I sense that I'm stepping into the middle of a flame war, but I just have to add my two cents before this gets locked down:
I just don't understand why BioWare goes and makes a series where a woman can fall in love with an alien that looks sufficiently like a human woman as makes no odds, as well as creates a game such as Dragon Age (where one of the primary love interests for each sex, it's well known already, is same-gendered), and yet they have a sequel to the former game where every love interest is hetero, and the justification is that "Shepard is who he or she is".
Well, Female Shepard is bisexual. There's no way around it. Heterosexual women don't become sexually attracted to people who look like women, because what attracts them is totally different from what attracts bisexual or lesbian women. And Ashley Williams is said hetero woman, presumably, because there's no chance of a same-sex attraction, and it's entirely possible that all the other females are the same in the series, save the 'kinda' option mentioned on the ME unofficial wiki. But to put it on Shepard as being locked in, gender preference wise, is not only distressing, it's false.
Erode_The_Soul wrote...
JaylaClark wrote...
I sense that I'm stepping into the middle of a flame war, but I just have to add my two cents before this gets locked down:
I just don't understand why BioWare goes and makes a series where a woman can fall in love with an alien that looks sufficiently like a human woman as makes no odds, as well as creates a game such as Dragon Age (where one of the primary love interests for each sex, it's well known already, is same-gendered), and yet they have a sequel to the former game where every love interest is hetero, and the justification is that "Shepard is who he or she is".
Well, Female Shepard is bisexual. There's no way around it. Heterosexual women don't become sexually attracted to people who look like women, because what attracts them is totally different from what attracts bisexual or lesbian women. And Ashley Williams is said hetero woman, presumably, because there's no chance of a same-sex attraction, and it's entirely possible that all the other females are the same in the series, save the 'kinda' option mentioned on the ME unofficial wiki. But to put it on Shepard as being locked in, gender preference wise, is not only distressing, it's false.
No, no flame war here. Just my awkward attempt at quelling one that blew up into some uneccessary drama
I think your point is what is confusing to a lot of us here. It is, by no means, a requirement for Bioware to include homosexual options in every game they ever make, but it's a bit odd that they've actually removed the option this go around, and seem to be trying to convince us it was never an option in the first place. Not only that, but a lot of the content was already created, but didn't make the final cut of the game.
That's what we're here for. To discuss why this all happened and to let Biware know that, were they to find themselves with such content again, there is a segment of their audience that would appreciate it.
JaylaClark wrote...
Oh, thanks for clarifying. And what's puzzling is that there doesn't seem to be much, if any, reason for it. My initial suspicion of it being EA's mandate was almost immediately invalidated by the two disks sitting on my PC -- Sims 3 and Dragon Age Origins, both of which have the so-called 'gay option'. Sims 3 even lets same-sex couples Marry this time around, as opposed to Joining last time.
I personally hope that those comments made by BioWare were just not that thought out, and they restate them a little more openly. (Not that any of this will keep me from playing the game, mind you. Even considering some of the things said in the Spoiler forums that I won't even allude to, I really want to know where this goes.)
tmelange wrote...
@Grilled Trout -- I don't know what you're talking about. I never told anyone that they aren't entitled to post to this forum; in your original post, you say, "if you want some respect for your sexuality..." I already have respect for my sexuality; I'm heterosexual, and they tell me that it's quite respected worldwide. As for the rest of your post...well, I find it underscores my point about two types of support on this thread for this issue quite effectively. Thank you.
Bygones then.tmelange wrote...
@Erode_The_Soul -- No problem. No need
to apologize, or at least I do so in return so we're even. I think we
got off to cross purposes, but without ill intent. I find many of the
posts on this topic mildly to egregiously offensive, in that one theme
seems to be that support can be had from heterosexuals provided we
figure out a way for it to not be seen by them at all. That bugs
me.
And if it makes you feel any better, I'm heterosexual and I'd support homosexual options to be implemented just as fully and openly as the hetero ones are now. But, given that we're at a disadvantage here, I'm willing to hear alternatives. JaylaClark wrote...
I personally hope that those comments made by BioWare were just not that thought out, and they restate them a little more openly. (Not that any of this will keep me from playing the game, mind you. Even considering some of the things said in the Spoiler forums that I won't even allude to, I really want to know where this goes.)
KumoriOokami wrote...
JaylaClark wrote...
Oh, thanks for clarifying. And what's puzzling is that there doesn't seem to be much, if any, reason for it. My initial suspicion of it being EA's mandate was almost immediately invalidated by the two disks sitting on my PC -- Sims 3 and Dragon Age Origins, both of which have the so-called 'gay option'. Sims 3 even lets same-sex couples Marry this time around, as opposed to Joining last time.
I personally hope that those comments made by BioWare were just not that thought out, and they restate them a little more openly. (Not that any of this will keep me from playing the game, mind you. Even considering some of the things said in the Spoiler forums that I won't even allude to, I really want to know where this goes.)
That's a really good point about the Sims. I haven't played those games since the first ones came out but even with those there could be gay sims pretty easily. And the Sims isn't even rated higher than T is it?
Ninja Mage wrote...
I won't stop posting until Garrus sticks it in my Shepard's back gate lol
SunglareAK wrote...
I don't understand the cater to me attitude and where would it end for Bioware? if they start catering to one special interest group then another one will jump on the band wagon and they will have to start catering to them too. What if it's not enough for a normal Gay Shepard and the some if the gay community want a flaming shepard too and they complain and claim unfairness because they aren't getting a Shepard that represents them best.
Should bioware also cater to those who find homosexuality repulsive and react to it negatively? If a same sex NPC starts hitting on Shepard give Shepard a renegade option to knock his ass out then continue with a beat down and boot his ass off the ship. There are a lot of immoral renegade options in the game why not a couple more. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who would like that.
Ninja Mage wrote...
Garrus- Ready shepard..you know I'm 14 inches
Shepard-Yeah Garrus, I'm rea..OWWWW
Garrus- Hmm, nice fit.
Shepard- Well get on with it...
Garrus- ~Humps~
Garrus-One for the money, two for the show, three to get Ready, four to....Unghhhhh
Shepard-~Unconscious~
Garrus- I'm sorry Shepard, was I too rough
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