29 réponses à ce sujet

[MugWumpBW]

I have to choose between these two.  Anything that would make me want to pick one over the other - such as better quests, better loot, more interesting storyline, etc.?

[Stormghost]

If you do Bhelen's quest, you go into the Deep Roads to find some lord. If you do Harrowmont's, you have to go through the Provings. After that it's much the same.



In the end, you can pick either king anyway.

[Babaghanouj]

Put on your RP hat: which one would your character be more likely to support? Or maybe better: which is your character least likely to support? Support the other one. Next playthrough, try the other option.

[Rykn]

Sadly Harrowmont is a crap sh*t ruler and fails as king and Bhelen Is an evil SOB but a good ruler so I would choose Bhelen whether your good or evil it makes the dwarven kingdom better as a whole.

Modifié par Rykn, 16 février 2010 - 01:04 .

[Gilsa]

If Zevran is in your party when you talk to Vartag (or whatever that guy's name is for Harrowmont), he offers his opinion on why he thinks Harrowmont is the weaker candidate. I've seen people be influenced by this and side with Bhelen as a result.

[Bullets McDeath]

I enjoy Harrowmont's Quest more, you spend plenty of time in the Deep Roads during the Orzamar quests and Harrowmont asks you to fight in the proving which is a fun diversion. You can support whoever you want in the end though, I usually work with Harrowmont and then betray him to Bhelen, cause I'm a dick like that.

[Bryy_Miller]

Bhelen is the lesser evil.

[Maria Caliban]

Bhelen's quest will let you pick up one of the three 'thorn of a dead god' daggers.

[MugWumpBW]

Is it possible to do all of the quests for both? That would seem to be the way to get the most experience and loot if so.

[ejoslin]

There's another side quest that can only be completed if you go to Aeducan thaig, so you have to head there anyway. I have to admit, I followed Zevran's advice; he's good at sizing up situations.

[CptPatch]

In RP mode mentality: Would I prefer to support Bhelen, a person that murdered the direct heir to the throne, framed the #2 heir for that murder, caused his father to die of grief, and who will stop at _nothing_ to get what he wants, just so he could be in position to inherit the throne?  Or would I prefer to support Harrowmont, who all evidence suggests only sincerely wants what is best for Orzammar and Dwarves in general?  (However, "what is best", as determined by Lord H, is decidedly shaded by his Conservative nature.)

[ejoslin]

CptPatch wrote...

In RP mode mentality: Would I prefer to support Bhelen, a person that murdered the direct heir to the throne, framed the #2 heir for that murder, caused his father to die of grief, and who will stop at _nothing_ to get what he wants, just so he could be in position to inherit the throne?  Or would I prefer to support Harrowmont, who all evidence suggests only sincerely wants what is best for Orzammar and Dwarves in general?  (However, "what is best", as determined by Lord H, is decidedly shaded by his Conservative nature.)

Another RP way to look at it, though.  What is most important is getting troops for the blight.  Do you want a strong king, or a weak king?  The scene when you first enter Orzammar is quite telling, as is the fact that Harrowmont's top men are intimidated into not fighting for him.  But if you must look at it as a humanitarian, all you need to do is look around dust town, listen to the criers, and listen to your own party to realize that Harrowmont supports the way things are, even though that's destroying the dwarves.

It was really tough for me the first time I played through, having no clue how it all ended up.  Both Harrowmont and Bhelen were so ditry (you know straight off that one is using bribery, and the other is trying to discredit that bribery by using forgery).  The entire situation ticked me off, so I tossed a coin.  

Edit: Every time afterwards, I listened to my party.  There really is good advice there.

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 février 2010 - 03:57 .

[CybAnt1]

To me, it's a relevant criterion that Bhelen will get rid of the dwarven caste system or at least ameliorate it, whereas Harrowmont intends to leave it in place.



If a visit to Dust Town doesn't make you question the dwarven caste system, consider seeing it from the inside from a Dwarf Commoner origin.



I find it interesting the only one who seems to like the dwarves' caste system is Sten, who seems from a similarly rigid caste-based society.

[Cuddlezarro]

If a visit to Dust Town doesn't make you question the dwarven caste system, consider seeing it from the inside from a Dwarf Commoner origin.

if your playing as a Casteless dwarf the game kind of pushes you into siding with bhelen any ways because of your sister

[Maria Caliban]

Bio-Boy 3000 wrote...

Or you could be like me and do both of their tasks and betray the other when the time is right.

Be sure to save before doing this, however, as it can bork up your game.

[syren1987]

Harrowmont is a weak king, and Bhelen is a tyrant, basicly with harrowmont things stay mostly the same with the dwarves becoming a bit more conservative, with Bhelen castless get more freedom but the dwarves become a dictatorship.

As a nondwarf without knowing what the effects of your actions will be, the two of them seem similar with Bhelen seeming more popular but a bit more underhanded.
Playing as a dwarf you get a good deal of incentive to choose one over the other.
Nobles will more than likely choose Harrowmont and Commoners will likely side with Bhelen.

Modifié par syren1987, 16 février 2010 - 04:25 .

[Kwanzaabot]

I've recently been trying to figure this out myself.

On my Elven Mage, I went with Bhelen, because he's out to change things for the better, while Harrowmont is a weak ruler, and not only wants to stick with tradition, but also wants to isolate the Dwarves from the outside world even more.

HOWEVER, on my Dwarven Noble, I went with Harrowmont, because he's actually a decent guy, and Bhelen is a backstabbing jerk.

I really love how Orzammar was written, and how it's really a tough decision to make like that. It's easily the best part of the whole game.

[krylo]

I kind of wish there was an option to just murder them both and randomly select the dude in charge of the senate (or whatever it was called) as king.

He seemed to have a solid head on his shoulders, and wasn't a total douche.

Modifié par krylo, 16 février 2010 - 07:35 .

[sylvanaerie]

krylo wrote...

I kind of wish there was an option to just murder them both and randomly select the dude in charge of the senate (or whatever it was called) as king.

He seemed to have a solid head on his shoulders, and wasn't a total douche.

First time through I did Bhelen cause I really didn't know what to do or who would do what after and I didn't know Bhelen that well.  When he summarily executed Harrowmont I felt miserable.  Bhelen may be a strong king but I kept remembering that talk with Wynne about power and how what you do can affect everyone around you.  On my second play through I tried Harrowmont and found I liked the Provings (the only way the quests differ is in what you do first and that was a LOT more fun for me.  Plus the battle at the end when you pick Harrowmont was a LOT more fun than just watching Bhelen order Harrowmont to be killed).  I guess what it all boiled down to was "what was more fun for me to do". 
 
Personally though I wish the above HAD been an option.  I didn't like either candidate for the throne.  Damn dwarves just give me my damn troops!

[CoM Solaufein]

After playing the dwarf noble origin, I will always choose  Lord Harrowmont. Bhelen is scum.  

[bri193]

On my first play-through as a human rogue I sided with Bhelen.



On a non-RP perspective, if you side with Bhelen, the Royal Palace opens to you much earlier, and you can complete the ambassador assassination Crows quest. This advances the Crows quest line and you get access to some quality rogue loot much sooner... Also, there is a sommoned drake in the throne room that drops a decent longsword.

[jpdipity]

MugWumpBW wrote...

Is it possible to do all of the quests for both? That would seem to be the way to get the most experience and loot if so.

I supported Harrowmont with my first playthrough and won't again.  He is the weaker leader, very conservative and traditional in his views. 

Bhelan's betrayal of you in the Dwarven orgin is typical and expected in Dwarven politics - you shouldn't take it personally.  In fact, I'm a bit mad that my Dwarf was too stupid not to see it coming! Bhelan is a strong king and is best for the Dwarven community plus if you are a noble dwarf, it keeps the family on the throne - your family has ruled for a long time.

You can still fight in the provings if you side with Bhelan.  You need to go to the Proving Grounds before you get too far on his side.  I think I did his first quest and then went there.  You fight Bhelan supportors and the dialogue makes it seem as if you are supporting Harrowmont, but at the end of the fights, you can yell something like long live King Bhelan and still keep up your support for Bhelan.  Then, there are also team fights that you go regardless of who you support.

[ejoslin]

CoM Solaufein wrote...

After playing the dwarf noble origin, I will always choose  Lord Harrowmont. Bhelen is scum.  

At least until you play dwarf commoner and see what Harrowmont represents, I suppose . . .

Edit: I'm beginning to think I have a real misunderstanding of dwarven politics as my DNF actually respected my brother and was disgusted that Harrowmont was too weak to even get the assembly to enforce current laws and traditions.

Modifié par ejoslin, 17 février 2010 - 12:20 .

[Gilsa]

jpdipity wrote...

I supported Harrowmont with my first playthrough and won't again.  He is the weaker leader, very conservative and traditional in his views. 

Bhelan's betrayal of you in the Dwarven orgin is typical and expected in Dwarven politics - you shouldn't take it personally.  In fact, I'm a bit mad that my Dwarf was too stupid not to see it coming! Bhelan is a strong king and is best for the Dwarven community plus if you are a noble dwarf, it keeps the family on the throne - your family has ruled for a long time.

You can still fight in the provings if you side with Bhelan.  You need to go to the Proving Grounds before you get too far on his side.  I think I did his first quest and then went there.  You fight Bhelan supportors and the dialogue makes it seem as if you are supporting Harrowmont, but at the end of the fights, you can yell something like long live King Bhelan and still keep up your support for Bhelan.  Then, there are also team fights that you go regardless of who you support.

Good points. A few things to consider for the dwarf noble. If keeping family on the throne is a priority, why gives the wishes of a younger brother priority over the wishes of the late father? There's a few other factors that makes the choice harder being that 1) Harrowmont is nearly the only one that believed in your innocence and fought on your behalf (while failing miserably -- Bhelen had been working the assembly and planning this for a long time while Harrowmont never expected to be asked to be king and had much less time to prepare) and 2) Harrowmont is arguably the one that saves the noble's life by sending Gorrim to inform the noble that Duncan was still in the Deep Roads and therein lies salvation.

I've done both versions in where I got set up by Bhelen and where I killed Trian by my own hand. I've sided with Harrowmont completely and I've also sided with Bhelen (up to the point where I came back with the crown and switched to Harrowmont at the last minute -- I wanted to see if there was special dialogue for turning the tables on Bhelen much the same way he did to the noble at the start and the answer is no). I would say that siding with Harrowmont is probably more rewarding in the sense that he provides closure about the father's final moments and what the father was feeling before he passed on. Siding with Bhelen just gives the "hey, you're more pragmatic than I thought!" dialogue. Even switching to Harrowmont at the very last minute (after the anvil) cuts the noble off from any further conversation with Harrowmont and the noble doesn't get to hear about the father's last moments.

The nice thing about the dwarf noble origin is that it doesn't really matter if you give props to Bhelen for being master of the game or side with Harrowmont. They both make sense the way they play out. I haven't tried siding with Harrowmont on the dwarf commoner. I just can't see if there's a good reason for it since Harrowmont would keep the caste system in place, the sister would be eternally pissed at you, and you'd be keeping your family in the slums. I still am curious how it plays out, but Orzammar is sooooo long just to finish all that up. I may do it one day and take a nice long shower since I'd be feeling so dirty afterwards.