61 réponses à ce sujet

[Moogliepie]

In my opinion it was not, and I am sick of people talking about it as if it were the pinnacle of RPGs.  ME1 attempted to blend RPG elements with FPS elements, and ended up coming short on both accounts. 

When I first got it, I thought the infiltrator sounded cool, and I would get to play like a high-tech theif, similar to the Scoundrel in KOTOR. But ultimately, it only made a difference in combat, giving me  a few skills to edge out Geth. In KOTOR having different abilities meant you could resolve situations in completely different ways. ME1's role-play aspects, other than dialog options, fell flat. Inventory and gear customization does not make an RPG.

The skill system is problematic in ME2, but it was ridiculous in ME1. Having a skill for each weapon class, meant you started out grossly incompetent for a military COMMANDER with all weapons, and could end up ridiculously overpowered once you passed level 30. I keep reading people complain about the lack of Charm/Intimidate skills, but those were a joke in ME1. Anyone who played through the game more than once figured out you didn't need to spend any points in them, so they didn't bother. Read any build posted and none of them recommend putting points into Charm/Intimidate. To me that indicates, most people didn't like having to spend their skill points on that anyway.  Too make it work, either they needed to scrap them as skills, or scrap the effect of Paragon/Renegade actions on acquiring them. They went with the former. 

It maybe would have made sense to keep them as skills if ME1 was a more complete role-playing system like previous Bioware games, but it wasn't, nor was it intended to be. 

With ME1, Bioware wasn't trying to make an RPG, they were trying to make an interactive action-story, much like they tried to do with Jade Empire. So before you go crying about how EA is forcing Bioware to dumb their games down, realize that they have been moving in this direction for a while now. 

Modifié par Moogliepie, 16 février 2010 - 12:59 .

[RoninOmega]

No you know what I'm sick of?

Devs never said the basis was another shooter, like gears or halo, and many stores even claim it to be an rpg, just look at best buy or gamestop, they have it in their rpg category

I honestly do not know why you guyes insist on pestering people claiming it to not be an rpg, sure me2 kinda stripped it, but only because they wanted to attract more shooter players, me1 WAS an rpg. The devs never said it, the game itself doesn't say it, even your local stores claim it to be an rpg.

Or maybe your just a stupid pesimist... I really hate how looking at only negatives is the answer to you guyes...


Either way, it's an rpg, get your facts straight, im pointing out facts, all you guyes are doing who claim it to be a shooter with rpg elements are theories


so should I call fallout a shooter with rpg elements?

Modifié par RoninOmega, 16 février 2010 - 01:11 .

[Soruyao]

Just make up a new genre that ME1 and ME2 both fit in. Call it RPS. (Role play shooter.)



Does that work so far? Okay, here's a flowchart:



1. Do you like this new genre? Y/N (If yes go to 2, if no go to 3.)

2. Play the game some more.

3. Don't play the game some more.



This solution is clean and simple and removes all need for pointless argument and repetetive copy pasted topics that don't bring any new discussion.

[thegreateski]

It is not an FPS or an RPG



It is simply . . . a game.

[RoninOmega]

Soruyao wrote...

Just make up a new genre that ME1 and ME2 both fit in. Call it RPS. (Role play shooter.)

Does that work so far? Okay, here's a flowchart:

1. Do you like this new genre? Y/N (If yes go to 2, if no go to 3.)
2. Play the game some more.
3. Don't play the game some more.

This solution is clean and simple and removes all need for pointless argument and repetetive copy pasted topics that don't bring any new discussion.

Yeah I'm getting really tired of endless topic spawns of nothing but arguements.  What we really should be focusing on is whether or not kasumi and hammerhead will come, if they might make a full expansion to me2, or even plans for me3 that we want(and don't screw it up this time...)

I dunno, make something new!  Arguements dry so young you know...

[SkullandBonesmember]

*sighs*



Yes. Why? It focused more on plot as compared to its sequel. The story as a whole suffered because of more emphasis on combat to cater to fans of 'SPLOSHUNS.

[thegreateski]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

*sighs*

Yes. Why? It focused more on plot as compared to its sequel. The story as a whole suffered because of more emphasis on combat to cater to fans of 'SPLOSHUNS.

*GASP*

You don't like 'SPLOSHUNS?!

[baller7345]

I see it as still a RPG. Nothing says it can't be real time or that everything has to be based on skills. I've played table top RPG's for years as well as "classic" RPG's. Its a different take on the genre and very refreshing after years of point and click combat.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Soruyao wrote...

1. Do you like this new genre? Y/N (If yes go to 2, if no go to 3.)
2. Play the game some more.
3. Don't play the game some more.

It's not that simple. MOST of us are here because we liked the first game. For those of us that didn't like ME2 as much as the first, we have a gun to our heads. We've already dedicated time into our Shepard and want to see how the conclusion will unfold. However that will probably be at the expense of plot as we saw in 2.

[Moogliepie]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

*sighs*

Yes. Why? It focused more on plot as compared to its sequel. The story as a whole suffered because of more emphasis on combat to cater to fans of 'SPLOSHUNS.

That's the worst complaint I've heard yet, and it has no merit whatsoever. There are even more plot decisions you can make in ME2 than ME1, and characters play a much more important role. You may not like the storyline as much, but it doesn't change the fact that there was still as much, if not more plot in ME2 than ME1.

[Ricardoy]

OMG both are RPG.happy ? next topic

[Lukertin]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
It's not that simple. MOST of us are here because we liked the first game. For those of us that didn't like ME2 as much as the first, we have a gun to our heads. We've already dedicated time into our Shepard and want to see how the conclusion will unfold. However that will probably be at the expense of plot as we saw in 2.

Sudden Epiphany: You don't have a gun to your heads.  If you hate it so much, don't bother buying ME3 and read about it on the ME wiki--your satisfaction can be experienced vicariously, and as you go through the descriptions of whatever the hell is on while you imagine playing the game however the hell you want.

[Soruyao]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Soruyao wrote...

1. Do you like this new genre? Y/N (If yes go to 2, if no go to 3.)
2. Play the game some more.
3. Don't play the game some more.

It's not that simple. MOST of us are here because we liked the first game. For those of us that didn't like ME2 as much as the first, we have a gun to our heads. We've already dedicated time into our Shepard and want to see how the conclusion will unfold. However that will probably be at the expense of plot as we saw in 2.

There haven't been any complaints about the current game's system besides cryptic statements that the game isn't an RPG anymore and the fact that it was oversimplified and dumbed down somehow.

These arguments are highly based in opinion and can't be argued properly because there is no solid agreed upon definition for what an RPG is, and because 99% of the complexity that was removed from ME1 was issulsory complexity that had no actual effect on gameplay.

Could the game be a little more complex? Sure, but it's definitely more complex than ME1 was.    Is ME2 magically a different genre from ME1 because gameplay was tweaked a little? 

[vhatever]

ME1 wasn't a pure "RPG" it was an "action RPG", and the "action" element is the third person model. Other games, like elder scrolls, for intance, are also action RPG's, and in that cased used a first person model. I should mention even DAO is an action RPG, and not a pure RPG.



Blending action and RPG is a great idea, but it must be done in a way that each aspect is respect and the players can choose to be more "Action oriented" or more pure RPG oriented". I'm not quite sure bioware has hit quite that magic amalgam. The closest I've seen to doing so is probably fallout 3, because the more RPG types that will thrive in the sandbox style can also liberally apply that computer targetting mode to take a chunk out of the "action" element.

[Kalfear]

Moogliepie wrote...

In my opinion it was not, and I am sick of people talking about it as if it were the pinnacle of RPGs.  ME1 attempted to blend RPG elements with FPS elements, and ended up coming short on both accounts. 

You know what im sick of. Kids complaining about others when they have no clue what they talking about!

Mass Effect was the BEST Sci Fi RPG created to date and most definately was rich with core RPG systems and concepts.

-Character growth beyond just level? Check (you had create and choose how good your character was in every aspect of game)
-Story that you effected and influenced? Check
-well developed characters you interact with and they interact with you? Check
-Different weapons and armor? Check
-inventory/loot system? Check
-ect ect ect? Check

Of course Mass Effect 1 was a RPG with shooter qualities and it was the BEST Sci Fi RPG created to date! BAR NONE!

Im so sick and tired of these kiddies making assinine statements about topics they have no clue about!
Just say you liked ME2 more and move on, done make a troll post talking about stuff you arent old enough or smart enough to understand.

The people upset about ME2 have a RIGHT and REASON to be upset. Unlike you who have NO RIGHT and NO REASON to complain and whine about them.
You liked ME2 because it was a shooter, good for you! Thats all you need to say. Others have stronger opinions and require explanations, and unlike you their explanations have been based in reality!

Listen kid, I probably been a fan of Bioware games longer then you been alive. Bioware puts out great products 90% of the time but they do drop the ball occationally and Biowares real fans are going to tell them when that happens to keep them honest and focused at a level we have all come to expect from them. Like it or not, ME2 was not at that level for the mass majority of people that posted their thoughts. This is called feedback and is eccential for Bioware to hear so they can fix the mistakes the next time around. You might disagree but thats all it is, disagreement.
Whats not needed is you and yours attacking those people for speaking their minds. You do not know better then those others and saying you do (as you say in your post) serves no purpose of a constructive nature.

[MonkeyLungs]

The character level up system in ME1 is superior to ME2.



Combat is an improvement in 2 but I don't see why a deeper character system wouldn't work with the new combat.



ME2 makes some serious technical advances ... the framerate and graphical upgrade alone are amazing (I play on Xbawks).



ME2 still has awesome conversations, and endearing characters, an amazing story, and fun gameplay.



It was fun to outfit your squad with armor in ME1. So what if after level 50 Colossus X was the best around? There is actually alot of gameplay PRIOR to reaching level 50.



ME1 just 'feels' alot more RPG than part 2. I LOVE both games. In fact for new characters, I play ME1, then carry on to ME2, keeping both games fresh.



The gun skills were cool and added to the RPG'ness of ME1. You had to level up your gun skill to get better. You certainly didn't suck at lvl 1 but by later in the game you felt much better.



I always put points in either Charm or Intimidate.

[llinsane1ll]

It's not an FPS stupid

[RoninOmega]

Kalfear wrote...

Moogliepie wrote...

In my opinion it was not, and I am sick of people talking about it as if it were the pinnacle of RPGs.  ME1 attempted to blend RPG elements with FPS elements, and ended up coming short on both accounts. 

You know what im sick of. Kids complaining about others when they have no clue what they talking about!

Mass Effect was the BEST Sci Fi RPG created to date and most definately was rich with core RPG systems and concepts.

-Character growth beyond just level? Check (you had create and choose how good your character was in every aspect of game)
-Story that you effected and influenced? Check
-well developed characters you interact with and they interact with you? Check
-Different weapons and armor? Check
-inventory/loot system? Check
-ect ect ect? Check

Of course Mass Effect 1 was a RPG with shooter qualities and it was the BEST Sci Fi RPG created to date! BAR NONE!

Im so sick and tired of these kiddies making assinine statements about topics they have no clue about!
Just say you liked ME2 more and move on, done make a troll post talking about stuff you arent old enough or smart enough to understand.

The people upset about ME2 have a RIGHT and REASON to be upset. Unlike you who have NO RIGHT and NO REASON to complain and whine about them.
You liked ME2 because it was a shooter, good for you! Thats all you need to say. Others have stronger opinions and require explanations, and unlike you their explanations have been based in reality!

Listen kid, I probably been a fan of Bioware games longer then you been alive. Bioware puts out great products 90% of the time but they do drop the ball occationally and Biowares real fans are going to tell them when that happens to keep them honest and focused at a level we have all come to expect from them. Like it or not, ME2 was not at that level for the mass majority of people that posted their thoughts. This is called feedback and is eccential for Bioware to hear so they can fix the mistakes the next time around. You might disagree but thats all it is, disagreement.
Whats not needed is you and yours attacking those people for speaking their minds. You do not know better then those others and saying you do (as you say in your post) serves no purpose of a constructive nature.

  Lol the illusive man avatar adds in the pizazz to your post

it's just my opinion though no need to go spreading it around...

1+ for TIM

Modifié par RoninOmega, 16 février 2010 - 02:07 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

No, ME1 wasn't really an RPG. But it was more of an RPG.

[Moogliepie]

Kalfear wrote...

Moogliepie wrote...

In my opinion it was not, and I am sick of people talking about it as if it were the pinnacle of RPGs.  ME1 attempted to blend RPG elements with FPS elements, and ended up coming short on both accounts. 

You know what im sick of. Kids complaining about others when they have no clue what they talking about!

Mass Effect was the BEST Sci Fi RPG created to date and most definately was rich with core RPG systems and concepts.

-Character growth beyond just level? Check (you had create and choose how good your character was in every aspect of game)
-Story that you effected and influenced? Check
-well developed characters you interact with and they interact with you? Check
-Different weapons and armor? Check
-inventory/loot system? Check
-ect ect ect? Check

Of course Mass Effect 1 was a RPG with shooter qualities and it was the BEST Sci Fi RPG created to date! BAR NONE!

Im so sick and tired of these kiddies making assinine statements about topics they have no clue about!
Just say you liked ME2 more and move on, done make a troll post talking about stuff you arent old enough or smart enough to understand.

The people upset about ME2 have a RIGHT and REASON to be upset. Unlike you who have NO RIGHT and NO REASON to complain and whine about them.
You liked ME2 because it was a shooter, good for you! Thats all you need to say. Others have stronger opinions and require explanations, and unlike you their explanations have been based in reality!

Listen kid, I probably been a fan of Bioware games longer then you been alive. Bioware puts out great products 90% of the time but they do drop the ball occationally and Biowares real fans are going to tell them when that happens to keep them honest and focused at a level we have all come to expect from them. Like it or not, ME2 was not at that level for the mass majority of people that posted their thoughts. This is called feedback and is eccential for Bioware to hear so they can fix the mistakes the next time around. You might disagree but thats all it is, disagreement.
Whats not needed is you and yours attacking those people for speaking their minds. You do not know better then those others and saying you do (as you say in your post) serves no purpose of a constructive nature.

Wow, did I touch a nerve? First off, I have every right to argue my opinion, just as the ME1 fanboys have their right. If you don't understand that, then just stop posting here. These forums are not the solve providence of whiners. 

Your age comment is hilarious. I could list all the old school games I played long before there were even VGA graphics, but I'm not getting into a gamer e-peen contest with some pathetic loser who thinks that equates to e-street-cred. 

Learn the difference between disagreeing, and attacking, and grow the **** up if you are so old.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Soruyao wrote...

There haven't been any complaints about the current game's system besides cryptic statements that the game isn't an RPG anymore and the fact that it was oversimplified and dumbed down somehow.

These arguments are highly based in opinion and can't be argued properly because there is no solid agreed upon definition for what an RPG is, and because 99% of the complexity that was removed from ME1 was issulsory complexity that had no actual effect on gameplay.

Could the game be a little more complex? Sure, but it's definitely more complex than ME1 was.    Is ME2 magically a different genre from ME1 because gameplay was tweaked a little?

Combat in the first made it easy for a fan like me who wouldn't normally be into shooters and others to ease in comfortably to the game without feeling a 'SPLOSHUNS overload. Again, there was more of an emphasis on combat in ME2 at the EXPENSE OF OVERALL STORY compared to 1.

[Newtype Taichou]

RoninOmega wrote...

No you know what I'm sick of?

Devs never said the basis was another shooter, like gears or halo, and many stores even claim it to be an rpg, just look at best buy or gamestop, they have it in their rpg category

I honestly do not know why you guyes insist on pestering people claiming it to not be an rpg, sure me2 kinda stripped it, but only because they wanted to attract more shooter players, me1 WAS an rpg. The devs never said it, the game itself doesn't say it, even your local stores claim it to be an rpg.

Or maybe your just a stupid pesimist... I really hate how looking at only negatives is the answer to you guyes...


Either way, it's an rpg, get your facts straight, im pointing out facts, all you guyes are doing who claim it to be a shooter with rpg elements are theories


so should I call fallout a shooter with rpg elements?

Agreed, ME1 was an RPG, it was deep, immersive and engaging. ME2 was stripped yes, but exploration and codexes are equally robust I find. Maybe its just that you can't click every random thing in the environment to obtain a codex lol. But ME2 still has that same intrigue that ME1 had. I've yet to explore all the planets and I still have that familiar sense of excitement.

I think the one thing that was evidently stripped was the customization, but not to the point of turning me away from the game. Although I do miss discussing the best armour and freaking out when you found the Colossus X (ZOMG).

Modifié par Newtype Taichou, 16 février 2010 - 02:25 .

[Gorn Kregore]

Mass Effect in my heart has always been an action adventure game. No more, no less.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Moogliepie wrote...

Your age comment is hilarious. I could list all the old school games I played long before there were even VGA graphics, but I'm not getting into a gamer e-peen contest with some pathetic loser who thinks that equates to e-street-cred. 

Learn the difference between disagreeing, and attacking, and grow the **** up if you are so old.

http://social.biowar...index/1231972/1

And this is coming from an ME2 fanboy.

MandatoryDenial1 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Another
thing which I find interesting is the role that nostalgia plays in
this. These same players will often swear up and down that there is no
nostalgia, but I suspect part of what made older games so special to
them is because they were new. That seems like it should be
self-evident, but I see a lot of people running on the assumption that
the novelty they felt playing an earlier game can be recaptured simply
by replicating the features in their entirety -- and looking at those
features as if they could exist independently of each other, rather
than in the context of a game where there are often trade-offs.

Dave
I find myself wondering if you really believe that its just nostalgia. 
As a gamer I can say with 100% certainty that I have yet to find any
game that has come out since the "golden age" of the interplay RPG's
that even approached the complexity and polish of the player defining
his/her role in the setting as did Baldur's Gate, Fallout 2, or
Planescape Torment.  To me as a gamer who has long waited for those
RPG's, I have found myself continually disappointed with what came
afterwards.  Don't get me wrong there have been some really fun games
that has followed such as Deus Ex, the first Gothic, Vampire: The
Masquerade Redemption, and KOTOR.  Even these though didn't
approach the quality or complexity of the Interplay RPG's.  I remember
saying this long ago and up until very recently, it was almost as
if the development studios were afraid to try to bring out really well
designed RPG.  That is why I have been so happy to see the return of
some games with depth such as the Witcher, DA: Origins and Mass Effect.

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 16 février 2010 - 02:23 .

[AlexXIV]

Moogliepie wrote...

Wall of text. 

Yes, it was.