107 réponses à ce sujet

[KainrycKarr]

Internet Kraken wrote...

chem light wrote...

I think people might be going about the OP the wrong way. I don't think they in anyway meant they SHOULDN'T have sex, just that it would have been interesting to the plot and a testiment to the romance if they COULDN'T have sex. And I think this is a valid point, more so for Tali than any of the other romancable aliens.

Garrus: oh well, allergic rxn, have an EpiPen near buy.
Thane: okay so now FemShep is tripping, we're already in the bedroom let her sleep it off.

Tali? Tali is risking her life for you. Which I think is romantic in and of itself. But if it turned out there was just nothing that could be done and Shep STILL felt the same way, that's amazing.

Yeah I think it would have made for a better plot if the romance between She[ard and Tali was impossible. It would make her rant about Quarian immune systems not adapting quick enough a lot more understandable for me. As it stands now I found that comment to be selfish.

Again..your opinion and I respect it...but I must say I am quite happy your opinion is in the minority.

[Gill Kaiser]

KainrycKarr wrote...

ATKT wrote...

madisk wrote...

She didn't start research on inter-species sexual intercourse. She researched different ways to improve her immune system.

And what is so mind boggling about inter-species sex anyway? Most land animals on earth have comparable genitalia to that of the humans. It's common knowledge amongst biologists that sex is an evolutionary revolution that will greatly propel the evolution of species once it's discovered, thus most advanced races in the galaxy would rely on sex to reproduce. Also, provided two different species are based on the same hereditary chemical (DNA) and developed on similar worlds, then the chances of them having comparable genitalia are pretty reasonable. But I guess we'll find out for sure once we discover extra-terrestrial life.

It's not that I think it is morally reprehensible or anything; but I felt like a more tragically sweet story would have been love between two people--aliens being people--that goes beyond sex. Since they may/may not even have the ability to do so without dying.

Plus, the fact that most land mammals have genitals "compatible" with ours is not very...palatable to think about.

That's your opinion, and I respect it. I don't want a tragically sweet story. I found the Tali romance quite satisfying, and realistic given the circumstances. It wasn't a miracle drug.

She still got sick. just not deathly sick. I would think risk of death, however minor, every time intercourse is attempted, would tragic enough as it is.

I'm pretty sure Tali implies that the danger lessens after the first time with a specific person, as the Quarian's body adapts to the foreign pathogens/matter of the other to some extent. That's why sharing suit environments is such a display of trust, because it implies that you are going to be with that person for a significant amount of time and you deem it worthy of potential illness.

[KainrycKarr]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

ATKT wrote...

madisk wrote...

She didn't start research on inter-species sexual intercourse. She researched different ways to improve her immune system.

And what is so mind boggling about inter-species sex anyway? Most land animals on earth have comparable genitalia to that of the humans. It's common knowledge amongst biologists that sex is an evolutionary revolution that will greatly propel the evolution of species once it's discovered, thus most advanced races in the galaxy would rely on sex to reproduce. Also, provided two different species are based on the same hereditary chemical (DNA) and developed on similar worlds, then the chances of them having comparable genitalia are pretty reasonable. But I guess we'll find out for sure once we discover extra-terrestrial life.

It's not that I think it is morally reprehensible or anything; but I felt like a more tragically sweet story would have been love between two people--aliens being people--that goes beyond sex. Since they may/may not even have the ability to do so without dying.

Plus, the fact that most land mammals have genitals "compatible" with ours is not very...palatable to think about.

That's your opinion, and I respect it. I don't want a tragically sweet story. I found the Tali romance quite satisfying, and realistic given the circumstances. It wasn't a miracle drug.

She still got sick. just not deathly sick. I would think risk of death, however minor, every time intercourse is attempted, would tragic enough as it is.

I'm pretty sure Tali implies that the danger lessens after the first time with a specific person, as the Quarian's body adapts to the foreign pathogens/matter of the other to some extent. That's why sharing suit environments is such a display of trust, because it implies that you are going to be with that person for a significant amount of time and you deem it worthy of potential illness.

Either way works for me.

If you don't like how the romance was done, don't pursue it.

I didn't like the Miranda romance, so you know what I did? Or did not do, as it were.

[RiouHotaru]

DirtyVagrant wrote...

What puzzled me a bit is how... accepting people in ME universe seem to be about inter-species relationships.

Why wouldn't they?  There are quite a few examples in ME2 of interspecies relationships.  Krogan/Asari, Quarian/Turian.  After over a millenium of stability, I'd think most civilizations would have worked past things like specism and inter-species phobias.

[Azint]

There is a difference between "making love" and just plain ****ing. One is a sign of trust and mutual love, the other is just for the sake of it. In Tali's case; it was indeed a matter of trust and in hers specifally it was longing. For Garrus it was similar, he even states that Shepard is the only close friend he has left, but what was different was that his romance path was the least indicative of sex.



So that being the case, the purpose of the romance was to illustrate the trust the characters have for each other, not banging.

[KainrycKarr]

Azint wrote...

There is a difference between "making love" and just plain ****ing. One is a sign of trust and mutual love, the other is just for the sake of it. In Tali's case; it was indeed a matter of trust and in hers specifally it was longing. For Garrus it was similar, he even states that Shepard is the only close friend he has left, but what was different was that his romance path was the least indicative of sex.

So that being the case, the purpose of the romance was to illustrate the trust the characters have for each other, not banging.

Bingo.

[Gill Kaiser]

In fact, Garrus' romance is so ambiguous at the end that you could argue that they never even had sex, despite much of the romance banter revolving around the subject.

[Cutlass Jack]

ATKT wrote...

Tali/Garrus were worth romancing because of their personalities. Instead, Tali immediately begins researching ways for interspecies sex. That is not only weird, it kind of detracts from her adorableness IMO.

Tali didn't research sex. She researched how to minimize the risk of showing you her real face and having actual contact.

The specifics of that are left to your imagination. So it does nothing to detract from her adorableness. Any disgust you feel is purely a product of your own imagination. So blame yourself, not her.

[KainrycKarr]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

In fact, Garrus' romance is so ambiguous at the end that you could argue that they never even had sex, despite much of the romance banter revolving around the subject.

I suspect the romances were done this way on purpose.

They are all *just* vague enough that a player could either believe they did have sex, or that they didn't, depending on their preference.

I personally find that very tasteful.

[Massadonious1]

FemShep does sound like a bit of a hussy when she first propositions Garrus, though.



"How about we work off some steam."



She's not much for subtlety.

[Gill Kaiser]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

In fact, Garrus' romance is so ambiguous at the end that you could argue that they never even had sex, despite much of the romance banter revolving around the subject.

I suspect the romances were done this way on purpose.

They are all *just* vague enough that a player could either believe they did have sex, or that they didn't, depending on their preference.

I personally find that very tasteful.

I agree... but IMO Tali's is much less ambiguous than Garrus'. She definately wants to get physical in some way (in a romantic way, of course).

Garrus on the other hand states that he's not even into humans, so the Garrus/FemShep romance is based on a mental connection above all. Of course, they still could have.

[StaR_JeS]

Massadonious1 wrote...

FemShep does sound like a bit of a hussy when she first propositions Garrus, though.

"How about we work off some steam."

She's not much for subtlety.

Yeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhh. For as much as Garrus/Femshep romance is based around attraction to personality/character and a high level of trust, I thought they could have done the propositioning a little better to suit that feeling. It was a kind of "lolwut?" moment when I selected that dialogue option.
Ummmmm, ok, BW. I can appreciate that there's a vast majority of fangirls wanting to get into Garrus' pants, but you could have done it a bit more subtly knowing that the attraction was for the above reasons.

Back OT though...I don't find the thought of interspecies sexing that disgusting. Even Garrus who is most likely the most alien looking LI. I think it's just a matter of taste...and again, an attraction to personality and character is what makes a real romance, not the sex part. You don't really need sex to have a fulfilling relationship. 

[RiouHotaru]

StaR_JeS wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

FemShep does sound like a bit of a hussy when she first propositions Garrus, though.

"How about we work off some steam."

She's not much for subtlety.

Yeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhh. For as much as Garrus/Femshep romance is based around attraction to personality/character and a high level of trust, I thought they could have done the propositioning a little better to suit that feeling. It was a kind of "lolwut?" moment when I selected that dialogue option.
Ummmmm, ok, BW. I can appreciate that there's a vast majority of fangirls wanting to get into Garrus' pants, but you could have done it a bit more subtly knowing that the attraction was for the above reasons.

Back OT though...I don't find the thought of interspecies sexing that disgusting. Even Garrus who is most likely the most alien looking LI. I think it's just a matter of taste...and again, an attraction to personality and character is what makes a real romance, not the sex part. You don't really need sex to have a fulfilling relationship. 

Oh man, if you think that was bad, try Jacob's romance.  He tries to be sincere and she wants him to plow her all over the armory.  For whatever reason FemShep has almost no tact at all except with Thane.

Also, while Garrus's romance is the least indicative, that was also likely done so that Bioware didn't have to try and animate even some basic intimacies like kissing, which would've been a pain to work out properly given the huge difference in character models.  But, given Mordin's advice and all the work Garrus put into trying to make things work, AND that Bioware wouldn't DARE gimp their fans, I think we can safely say Garrus and FemShep had a very wonderful 2 hours to themselves.

(Also, note to Miranda: The Engine Room floor is NOT my idea of a romantic evening!!)

[KainrycKarr]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

In fact, Garrus' romance is so ambiguous at the end that you could argue that they never even had sex, despite much of the romance banter revolving around the subject.

I suspect the romances were done this way on purpose.

They are all *just* vague enough that a player could either believe they did have sex, or that they didn't, depending on their preference.

I personally find that very tasteful.

I agree... but IMO Tali's is much less ambiguous than Garrus'. She definately wants to get physical in some way (in a romantic way, of course).

Garrus on the other hand states that he's not even into humans, so the Garrus/FemShep romance is based on a mental connection above all. Of course, they still could have.

As I said, only *just* ambiguous enough. To those that want to see it...it is quite obviously happening.

To those who don't want to see it...it could simply be a passionate "makeout".

[Cutlass Jack]

RiouHotaru wrote...

(Also, note to Miranda: The Engine Room floor is NOT my idea of a romantic evening!!)

Tell me about it. The only two people with their own large cabins on the ship and she picks the engine room floor.

I can only imagine she picked this specific location to rub it in the noses of Tali and/or Jack. So Tacky.

[RiouHotaru]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

(Also, note to Miranda: The Engine Room floor is NOT my idea of a romantic evening!!)

Tell me about it. The only two people with their own large cabins on the ship and she picks the engine room floor.

I can only imagine she picked this specific location to rub it in the noses of Tali and/or Jack. So Tacky.

Seriously!  The only thing I could think about during that scene is: "Man if Tali finds out I banged the Cerberus Operative on those consoles she is gunna murder me!"

[KainrycKarr]

I found absolutely nothing romantic or emotional about Miranda. Whole thing seemed pretty much about lust. Which is kinda lame, to me. Nearly all the other game's romances seemed to have much more actual romance involved.

[TSamee]

Saberwolf116 wrote...

ATKT wrote...

Saberwolf116 wrote...

I was too busy mentally screaming at BioWare for not showing us Tali's face to care.

Same, at first, but I guess I am just old-fashioned in that thinking sex isn't the culmination of a realationship.

It's part of one, for sure, but TBH, i'd much prefer to hug/kiss her as opposed to sex.

I think that Gaider/Walters (DA/ME2's lead writers, can't remember which one said this) said in a feature on 1up (can't seem to find it now, called "The Uncanny Valley of Love") that a relationship shouldn't just end in sex.They only did it in BG2 because they ran out of resources; they actually wanted to take it further after the sex part. They did this in DA; the sex scene actually happens quite early on and then you get to know them even more afterwards. I think that sort of thing'd suit Tali.

I feel that interspecies sex could be alright, since it's an expression of love (and, for a Quarian, shows that you mean enough to them that they'll risk death), but I also feel that the whole "quickly, it's the end of the world, let's do it" mentality that ME2 had with Tali didn't quite work. And yeah, getting more intimate first, or even getting to know her better afterwards, would help a lot, as she's genuinely a really great character. Still, I'm going with her on one of my saves to see if we see more of her personality in ME3. If not, then Jack all the way, people, Jack all the way.

Modifié par TSamee, 16 février 2010 - 08:50 .

[WarmachineX0]

If you actually question Tali on how sich she could get, she'll tell you that human illnesses and such arn't really dangerous to Quarians, the most that will likely happen is a mild allergic reaction (Which seems to have "cold" symptoms to quarians). She's more worried about getting sick and holding up the mission, not dieing. The way she makes it out, is being with a human (Shepard) is no more dangerous then linking suits with another Quarian for the first time. Though, Turan illnesses can be fatale to quarians, and bacteria is a whole nother story, hence Mordin telling you to sterilize your body, and the reson Tali got sick from being shot. A pojectile penitrated the suit, and her skin, exposing a route for bacteria to enter her body when she wasn't taking immuno bosters.

Being part of the Normandy crew, she has better access to the boosters as well, as on the flotilla, thats stock piled for emergancies. So, she was hardly taking a huge risk, also she consulted with Mordin (as he makes it sound like he was the one that gave the boosters to her). When you tell her you can't because of her health, she sounds let down, if you say its because of the mission, she's understanding. I seriously dout she would take serious risks with her life.

I fully support a romance between two consenting, legally mature (adult), intelligent beings, its possible to love someone for their mind. 

Modifié par WarmachineX0, 16 février 2010 - 09:01 .

[magnuskn]

For Tali it is obviously an issue of wanting intimacy, after being isolated in her suit for all of her life. Also, she has been pining for you for two years.

I think it is pretty clear that the two made love, which in this case seemed very appropiate, due to Tali wanting it so much. Also, I don't know if that came up in the other romances, too, but Shepards "I don't want anyone else, I want you" seemed pretty special to me.

As for having relationships with other alien species in general... it's 170 years  in the future. Look at where we are now from 170 years ago. I mean, really, look. The difference in morals, enlightement and progressivism ist astounding. 170 years ago we'd have been challenging each other to duels over the slightest insult, regarded other human races as inferior beings, women as inferior, etc, etc..

170 years in the future we should be mostly ready for interspecies relations with aliens.

Modifié par magnuskn, 16 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[ArmedCarp]

I just hope they don't kill Tali off in ME3 and say Sheperd gave her space-aids or whatever. That's the one thing that troubles me about her particular romance plot. Every decision from ME1 keeps biting me in the butt... hopefully that won't in ME3.

[stillnotking]

KainrycKarr wrote...

I found absolutely nothing romantic or emotional about Miranda. Whole thing seemed pretty much about lust. Which is kinda lame, to me. Nearly all the other game's romances seemed to have much more actual romance involved.

Seemed realistic to me.  On the eve of an almost certainly suicidal mission, who's thinking about kids and growing old together?

[chem light]

RiouHotaru wrote...

StaR_JeS wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

FemShep does sound like a bit of a hussy when she first propositions Garrus, though.

"How about we work off some steam."

She's not much for subtlety.

Yeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhh. For as much as Garrus/Femshep romance is based around attraction to personality/character and a high level of trust, I thought they could have done the propositioning a little better to suit that feeling. It was a kind of "lolwut?" moment when I selected that dialogue option.
Ummmmm, ok, BW. I can appreciate that there's a vast majority of fangirls wanting to get into Garrus' pants, but you could have done it a bit more subtly knowing that the attraction was for the above reasons.

Back OT though...I don't find the thought of interspecies sexing that disgusting. Even Garrus who is most likely the most alien looking LI. I think it's just a matter of taste...and again, an attraction to personality and character is what makes a real romance, not the sex part. You don't really need sex to have a fulfilling relationship. 

Oh man, if you think that was bad, try Jacob's romance.  He tries to be sincere and she wants him to plow her all over the armory.  For whatever reason FemShep has almost no tact at all except with Thane.

Also, while Garrus's romance is the least indicative, that was also likely done so that Bioware didn't have to try and animate even some basic intimacies like kissing, which would've been a pain to work out properly given the huge difference in character models.  But, given Mordin's advice and all the work Garrus put into trying to make things work, AND that Bioware wouldn't DARE gimp their fans, I think we can safely say Garrus and FemShep had a very wonderful 2 hours to themselves.

(Also, note to Miranda: The Engine Room floor is NOT my idea of a romantic evening!!)

*Jumps on band wagon*
Yeah, the female romances were kind of epic fail for the femsheps out there.  Garrus was this totally respectful, honor bound type guy, in the first one and now he is suddenly cool with friends with benefits.  It kind of rescues itself at the end where he says, "He just wants one thing to go right."  But I was like come on, with all the back story, all the history, the best you could give us with one of the few people on this ship we can trust is "blowing off steam."  Fail.  

And then Jacob.  You can't talk to the boy without leaning back suggestively and basically screaming take me now.  The final scene?  I was waiting for the funky slap base.

Thane was probably the only female romance option besides staying faithful to your ME LI that didn't make me want to cringe. 

[smudboy]

I see nothing wrong with wanting to romance either, or have sexual relations with, or having either alien understand physiology.



I just wish Shepard was more of a character, had more lines and actions, that made them be romantic toward these people, since these people greatly like you.

[Cutlass Jack]

stillnotking wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I found absolutely nothing romantic or emotional about Miranda. Whole thing seemed pretty much about lust. Which is kinda lame, to me. Nearly all the other game's romances seemed to have much more actual romance involved.

Seemed realistic to me.  On the eve of an almost certainly suicidal mission, who's thinking about kids and growing old together?

What was realistic about picking the engine room floor when you're the only two people on ship with their own cabins and Queen Sized beds?