210 réponses à ce sujet

[BillyCapron]

GnB Epro wrote...

I gave him to cerberus and left without him.

I felt like he would betray me in the long run.

Your statements make me sad.

[HomicidialFrog]

OP, Legion won't betray you. Any reason he would betray is would be caused by some emotion and synthetics don't have emotions.



Lying is caused by either: Fear, Shame, Greed Hate and other emotions. No one ever lies without it being caused by some emotion. A synthetic would never lie simply because it lacks the ability to do so. Does your computer tell you that there's an error when there isn't?



A betrayal is caused by: Greed, Fear, Hate, Sadness, Envy or some other emotion. Will your computer one day stab you in the back because it hates you? Or is jealous because you have emotions? No, because it doesn't have emotions.



Which really is the flaw with all movies where Robots try to take over the world: Robots never will no matter how smart they get. If they start questioning why there here and do they have a soul they'll accept the fact that there here to serve and have no soul.



I can pretty much go on and on about any reason why Robots would try to exterminate the Human race would be caused by an emotion, which they lack so it would never happen.

[FlashedMyDrive]

GnB Epro wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

GnB Epro wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

GnB Epro wrote...

Aviena wrote...

The "does this unit have a soul?" gets me every time. Every. Damn. Time.

I thought about leaving Grunt in his tank for a while, but as soon as I picked up Legion I made a BEELINE for the AI core - coming from that "RP perspective", how could you not be fascinated by the prospect of learning the Geth's motivations? Especially after Legion sniped those Husks for you.

True, that was interesting. And at least made me curious about activating him. Still, too much risk.

I have no idea why you go on about this risk you speak of.


Legion already states that the geth are sided with Shepard and any organics fighting against the reapers.
He also stated that the geth do not want to destroy organics and that was just a tiny break off from the main group.


I can bet you anything the the Geth will play as a major ally in the 3rd game.

But I didn't know (or could validate the truth of their loyalty, even if i did) that there was a certain faction of Geth on my side...because I didn't awaken Legion. Ignorance may not prove to be bliss in ME3 when it comes to this Legion situation, but my mission in ME2 went fluidly without him.

Explain to me, what made you think that Bioware would make a Squad member, just so it can sabatage you game?

Even before the game was released I knew legion was a squad member, it wasn't really kept secret

You're metagaming, that isn't what people should do nor is it as fun.

I'm sorry that I don't make illogical assumptions about a game character.


I guess I shouldn't have released Grunt either, because he was deemed dangerous too. He could have hijacked the Normandy and drove it to the collector base to sell me for credits. He'd then use the credits to hack me game to make me loose all my achievements.


I'm sorry but taking Roleplaying the the level at which it causes you to assume irrational things is just not my style.

what you mentioned is not irrational. Some people might think different from you, and could have left Grunt in the tank. Krogan are unpredictable and he stood a chance at jepordizing the mission.

This will just go in circles.

All I will say is that you take Roleplaying to the point of willfull ignorance.

[Slayer299]

TIM was just too deep in his own agenda for Cerberus for me to trust him, so I kept Legion and wiped out the Collector base >

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

All I will say is that you take Roleplaying to the point of willfull ignorance.

How so? As you said, RPing isn't your style maybe metagaming isn't his style either?



Ironically it was due to RPing that I figured romancing Morinth led to your death, not metagaming. Metagaming would have some people assume they could do it and live, in fact some of the best games mess with players who metagame like the Metal Gear Solid series.

[Guaritor]

GnB Epro wrote...

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

GnB Epro wrote...
I felt like he would betray me in the long run. 

But you kept a psychopathic biotic, a justicar, an assassin on your team?

ok

No the psychopath I intentionaly killed. If I could have gotten rid of her sooner I would. Justicar and Assassin, yes I kept them because they were never my enemy...like the geth were.

Dunno if its been discussed yet... but would you kill every japanese, german, and italian person you saw just because they were your enemies once?

Going more into the ME universe, what about Turians? They killed tons of humans in the first contact war...

[FlashedMyDrive]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...
I'm sorry that I don't make illogical assumptions about a game character.

Now now, no need to get so hostile and indirectly insult the OP.

I guess I shouldn't have released Grunt either, because he was deemed dangerous too. He could have hijacked the Normandy and drove it to the collector base to sell me for credits. He'd then use the credits to hack me game to make me loose all my achievements.

*sighs*

I'm totally find with playing a game without breaking immersion and enjoy roleplaying, but there is a level at which it should stop.


If I didn't metagame in any way, I wouldn't have joined Cerberus.

I wouldn't have hired Zaeed, Miranda, Jack, Grunt, Morinth, Legion, or Thane.
I wouldn't have gone through the Omega-4 relay, because it's dangerous.
I wouldn't have trusted EDI.


There is a logical point in which you have to think, "This is a game, this is how it's supposed to happen."

If you Roleplay at the level, where you willingly disregard the fact that a character is a squadmember just because  you don't want to break immersion, that is willful ignorance and it takes it a tad too far.

Modifié par FlashedMyDrive, 16 février 2010 - 05:41 .

[Aviena]

HomicidialFrog wrote...

OP, Legion won't betray you. Any reason he would betray is would be caused by some emotion and synthetics don't have emotions.

Lying is caused by either: Fear, Shame, Greed Hate and other emotions. No one ever lies without it being caused by some emotion. A synthetic would never lie simply because it lacks the ability to do so. Does your computer tell you that there's an error when there isn't?

A betrayal is caused by: Greed, Fear, Hate, Sadness, Envy or some other emotion. Will your computer one day stab you in the back because it hates you? Or is jealous because you have emotions? No, because it doesn't have emotions.

Which really is the flaw with all movies where Robots try to take over the world: Robots never will no matter how smart they get. If they start questioning why there here and do they have a soul they'll accept the fact that there here to serve and have no soul.

I can pretty much go on and on about any reason why Robots would try to exterminate the Human race would be caused by an emotion, which they lack so it would never happen.

You're making a couply of assumptions there. We can also say that machines (or synthetics) are logical. Lying, or betrayal, are usually a means to an end. If it's the quickest, most efficient way to achieve Legion's goals (obviously I am not saying that they ARE, this is my silly RPing side coming out), I'd consider Legion quite capable of lies and betrayal.

[raunchyballs]

I sold him, too. I solved a lot of my money troubles by doing that.



Admittedly, on my first play as Paragon, I decided to keep him (it?). But on the second play through, I wanted to explore the game a little more and be a jerk even when it seemed like it might ruin the game. Losing legion ended up being the right choice for that character--his robotic banter is cute at first, but gets really old in the fifth hour.

Same thing goes for Tali. Do techs just suck at talking or what?



I recommend playing through a second time and doing completely different things--like having the opposite alignment and keeping Legion. That way, you can experience ME3 in its entirety once it comes out!

[Gill Kaiser]

OP clearly has chronic poor judgement.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...
I'm totally find with playing a game without breaking immersion and enjoy roleplaying, but there is a level at which it should stop.


If I didn't metagame in any way, I wouldn't have joined Cerberus.

I wouldn't have hired Zaeed, Miranda, Jack, Grunt, Morinth, Legion, or Thane.
I wouldn't have gone through the Omega-4 relay, because it's dangerous.
I wouldn't have trusted EDI.


There is a logical point in which you have to think, "This is a game, this is how it's supposed to happen."

If you Roleplay at the level, where you willingly disregard the fact that a character is a squadmember just because  you don't want to break immersion, that is willful ignorance and it takes it a tad too far.

I disagree, a lot of the things you said you "wouldn't" do I actually would do, even when I was RPing. Especially because I'm presented my choices and is shackled by Bioware at some points. I would have kept Zaaed, I would have kept every member of the team because they are useful, and yes I would have gone through the Omega-4 relay because that is my Shepard's mission.

[xDelta]

I couldn't give him up. He just looked too badass with that gaping hole and piece of N7 armor on his arm. And after killing all those Geth, I wanted to have one on my squad.

[thompsonaf]

It's called roleplaying, its a freakin game. Chill out before nerd rage consumes you. My paragon shep kept legion, my renegade sold him for cold hard cash. Keep this in mind crazy folks, rooooooleplaying in a video gaaaaaame.

Edit:

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...
I find the prospect of forcing myself to pretend I don't know something for RP puposes a lot worse than metagaming.

Not a fan of "Choose your own adventure" books I take it?

Knowing what happens and just doing something to get a certain result is boring to me, also defeats the purpose of the whole paragade system if you're doing something to get points or a certain result and not thinking "What are the pros or cons to this?".

I loved those books! Could never find a lot in the library though.

Modifié par thompsonaf, 16 février 2010 - 05:54 .

[Ghostano]

dreman9999 wrote...

GnB Epro wrote...

I feel like everyone took Legion as a squadmate, while I gave him to cerberus and left without him.

I felt like he would betray me in the long run. Yes, I understand the different factions of Geth and that he was the true Geth, but I still don't trust it.

And before anyone points it out, YES I trust Cerberus and YES I gave them the collector base. I want the Illusive Man on my side and I would rather Cerberus experiment on Legion and the base to help me out later.

Legion is you biggest fan. He spent 2 years hunting you down for your autograph. He would not betray you. You missed on a great character.

Oh my god a synthetic conrad verner

[Lmaoboat]

thompsonaf wrote...

It's called roleplaying, its a freakin game. Chill out before nerd rage consumes you. My paragon shep kept legion, my renegade sold him for cold hard cash. Keep this in mind crazy folks, rooooooleplaying in a video gaaaaaame.

Oddly enough, you're the least chill person in this thread,
It's called discussion, its a freakin forum. Chill out before nerd rage consumes you.

[Tarisln]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

**** we Legion fans are ganging up on him, we should at least disguise ourselves to hid our bias.

lol

Legion fans do not infiltrate.

[FlashedMyDrive]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...
I'm totally find with playing a game without breaking immersion and enjoy roleplaying, but there is a level at which it should stop.


If I didn't metagame in any way, I wouldn't have joined Cerberus.

I wouldn't have hired Zaeed, Miranda, Jack, Grunt, Morinth, Legion, or Thane.
I wouldn't have gone through the Omega-4 relay, because it's dangerous.
I wouldn't have trusted EDI.


There is a logical point in which you have to think, "This is a game, this is how it's supposed to happen."

If you Roleplay at the level, where you willingly disregard the fact that a character is a squadmember just because  you don't want to break immersion, that is willful ignorance and it takes it a tad too far.

I disagree, a lot of the things you said you "wouldn't" do I actually would do, even when I was RPing. Especially because I'm presented my choices and is shackled by Bioware at some points. I would have kept Zaaed, I would have kept every member of the team because they are useful, and yes I would have gone through the Omega-4 relay because that is my Shepard's mission.

You completely missed my point.

My point is that, unless you don't know that Mas Effect 2 is a game and you have no shred of common sense, you should be able to understand that none of the recruitable characters will betray you in some sort of game sabotaging way.


I'm not saying that his choice was dumb, I'm saying that the basis was dumb. If he wanted to "pretend" that his Shepard didn't trust Legion as some sort of personal story device, fine.

But if he trully believed that Legion was going to betray him, he just lacks common sense. Bioware wouldn't make a recruitable, just to sabotage your game.

Metagaming or not, it's common sense.

[Basher of Glory]

I kept Legion, I did not give the base to TIM and I didn't miss any opportunity to tell him or others my mistrust.



Sure, I made a bargain with TIM: He gives me the opportunity to do what I would have done anyway, but it is clear from the beginning that my alliance with him is timed.



I really can't understand, how someone with the insider knowledge of Shep (Rachni, Thorian, Thresher Maw acid, SuZe-experiments etc.) could trust an organization like Cerberus.

They are nothing but fascists to the core!



For the reaper threat ist's ok to ally with them, because sometimes there is no other way: We must fight pestilence with cholera.

[thompsonaf]

Lmaoboat wrote...

thompsonaf wrote...

It's called roleplaying, its a freakin game. Chill out before nerd rage consumes you. My paragon shep kept legion, my renegade sold him for cold hard cash. Keep this in mind crazy folks, rooooooleplaying in a video gaaaaaame.

Oddly enough, you're the least chill person in this thread,
It's called discussion, its a freakin forum. Chill out before nerd rage consumes you.

I'm afraid the Nerd Rage has consumed me, it is far too late.

[Daewan]

Even my Renegade trusts Legion. I'm a human, I anthromorphize inanimate objects every day. Finally one of them talks back!

I've never believed all that nonsense about AIs automatically turning on humans. They need us, just as much as we need them.

And considering in RL I have more computers in my house than people, it would be silly of me to stop trusting them in game. Computers are our friends. Trust the Computer.

[GuardianAngel470]

Some of you guys are fairly short-sighted. Every single geth you've fought, all those untold numbers with their strongholds, warships, and mobile platforms represent a mere 5% of all geth. That means that the other 95% of the geth do not want to attack organics and are potential allies against the reapers. Heck, Legion tells you this the moment you turn him back on. And for those of you who chose to give him to Cerberus because you didn't want to upset Tali, I say 1) Your feelings are misguided, it is in her people's best interest to seek peace with the geth and 2) If you talked to legion and brought him on tali's loyalty mission you would know that the geth already want peace AND they aren't even using the quarian homeworld or any of their colonies. Legion tells you they see themselves as merely caretakers.



So on the one hand you have continued animosity with the geth resulting in a war that would decimate the two largest fleets in the galaxy, not to mention the extinction of the quarian people, leaving the galaxy that much weaker in the fight against the reapers and on the other hand you have peace between the quarians and the geth, with that many more forces to be used in the fight against the reapers and as a side effect the quarian people get their homeworld and their colonies back, free of charge. I don't know about you but I'd rather succeed against the reapers and not witness the extinction of my favorite species, and being able to visit the homeworld with my favorite LI would be totally awesome.



On a side note, I firmly believe that if Bioware is smart, tactically and strategically, the geth fleet will be the main offensive force against the reapers. Consider that the Reapers have weapons that can tear a human vessel in half and kinetic barriers that allow them to literally plow through turian ships without incurring damage. You would need either a multi-generational leap in technology or a method of avoiding the reaper's weapons as well as taking down it's kinetic barriers. In my mind, the neural network-linked geth could coordinate fleetwide precision ftl jumps, negating the reaper weapons advantage by never giving them a firing solution. In order to take down the shields of the reaper you would need a boarding party that isn't vulnerable to indoctrination, ie the geth because of their inability to be hacked for any length of time, to destroy the mass effect core of each individual reaper. Every time a geth ship came out of FTL they'd fire at a reaper allowing the boarding party to get in range. The quarian, krogan, and rachni forces would be in charge of evacuation and ground assaults with the quarian flotilla in charge of evacuating turian, human, asari, roloi (the new race), and any other race with a similar form factor and the Rachni in charge of evacuating the elcor and volus, because of the need for larger halls. The krogans don't have ships and would be in charge of fighting any species the Reapers managed to ally themselves with, alongside the rachni ground forces and human, turian, asari, and salarian militaries.



At least that's how I would do it, It makes the most sense to me with what I know now, but bioware will probably throw in some new information that makes fighting the reapers considerably easier. Oh well.