210 réponses à ce sujet

[Inverness Moon]

GnB Epro wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

From a RP perspective, its the logical thing to do. But legion is too cool for school.

Thank you, that's what I thought too.

I have played through and activated him. His role was interesting, but as a character...well he's easily replaceable. Stick any other geth in his place and its the same. You try and replace Miranda with any other  human girl and it would be completely different.

This is not a shot to and Legion fans out there (and I know they're are a bunch of you) but it just didn't feel right siding with someone I had been fighting for so long.

Legion is not replaceable, he is a network within a single platform, a platform built for the specific purpose of entering organic space without attracting alot of attention. Also the fact that Legion wears that N7 armor should clue you into the fact that something unusual for the geth is going on with Legion.

Also if you had talked to Legion you'd know that you did not fight the true geth in ME1, only a minority of heretics. I'm sure you wouldn't want to blame an entire species for the actions of a minority, would you?

The Governator wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

All the Geth want to do is make their own future. Why is that so hard to trust? And if you hadn't sent Legion away, you'd finf out that it's the Quarians waging war on the Geth.

The Quarians did make mistakes in their past, but the geth are not sapient.  What Sovereign says about Organics can REALLY be applied to VIs and AIs.  The geth are not victims.  Even Legion acknowledges that the geth don't hate or even feel anger towards the Quarians.  They exist to survive and they survive to exist.  They have no purpose. 

When Legion replays the recording of the Quarian speaking to a geth when it is asking questions of her, the geth seems to show rudimentary signs of cognition and self perception.  This slightly evolved 'thinking' does not seem to have transcended from that to full awareness.  Legion does not even understand his individuality.  The geth have hive minds and insect-like instincts.  I would rate them no higher.  

Sorry, you can't claim that the geth are not sapient when the codex and in-game conversations say otherwise.

As for their reasons for existing, they're no different from organic life in that respect. They had to invent their own reason to exist after the quarians disowned them, Legion tells you as much.

Your argument is too full of holes.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 16 février 2010 - 07:09 .

[Allaiya]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
Some of you guys are fairly short-sighted. Every single geth you've fought, all those untold numbers with their strongholds, warships, and mobile platforms represent a mere 5% of all geth. That means that the other 95% of the geth do not want to attack organics and are potential allies against the reapers. Heck, Legion tells you this the moment you turn him back on. And for those of you who chose to give him to Cerberus because you didn't want to upset Tali, I say 1) Your feelings are misguided, it is in her people's best interest to seek peace with the geth and 2) If you talked to legion and brought him on tali's loyalty mission you would know that the geth already want peace AND they aren't even using the quarian homeworld or any of their colonies. Legion tells you they see themselves as merely caretakers.

So on the one hand you have continued animosity with the geth resulting in a war that would decimate the two largest fleets in the galaxy, not to mention the extinction of the quarian people, leaving the galaxy that much weaker in the fight against the reapers and on the other hand you have peace between the quarians and the geth, with that many more forces to be used in the fight against the reapers and as a side effect the quarian people get their homeworld and their colonies back, free of charge. I don't know about you but I'd rather succeed against the reapers and not witness the extinction of my favorite species, and being able to visit the homeworld with my favorite LI would be totally awesome.

This. Not to mention that if you give Legion to Cereberus, you can't do his loyalty mission. So not only do you not destroy or rewrite the 5% heretic geth that you've been fighting this whole time, but you fail to stop them from spreading the virus. Which I'm assuming means the other 95% of geth who opposed the reapers, now want you and all organics dead in ME3. Maybe its just me, but that seems a bit more risky than taking on one geth who may or may not betray you.

[Massadonious1]

I don't see why people turn down potential squadmates, even though you are always given the option to reform them, or at least line them up with your current way of thinking.



Even then, Legion is the lesser of all "evil" characters out there. He may be Geth, but he goes out of his way to save your ass. If you get the first inkling that he has hostile intentions, snuff out his flashlight head and toss him out the airlock.



But at least give the guy a chance.



The only thing Cerberus is going to do with him is try to engineer some human/Geth hybrid, and it will likey fail, like all their experiments have.

[AtreiyaN7]

You're a bad, bad person for doing that! Just kidding - however, I think most people keep Legion as a team member. I certianly did, and doing so is very worthwhile (given his insights into the true geth and what their goals are).

[Remaix]

I keep thinking how weird it is that some people just outright trust Cerberus. Hey, people? Remember Akuze? Yeah, I'm sure they had a perfectly good and totally not sick reason for THAT.
Also, I'm pretty sure Legion wouldn't betray Shepard. At all. That... that's just not something Legion would do! He's too adorable for that! <3

Modifié par Remaix, 16 février 2010 - 08:54 .

[N7 Om3ga]

Sold your only squad mate that can carry The Widow. Bad Choice.

[Mox Ruuga]

Depends on the Shepard in question.

I haven't had a Shepard do that yet, but I can see a few of them easily giving him away.

[casedawgz]

I'm torn about Legion. I never give him to Cerberus because its just a waste. But I'm still not the biggest fan of geth. Its hard for me to sympathize with the plight of the geth. It seems a bit like supporting Skynet.

[Inverness Moon]

casedawgz wrote...

I'm torn about Legion. I never give him to Cerberus because its just a waste. But I'm still not the biggest fan of geth. Its hard for me to sympathize with the plight of the geth. It seems a bit like supporting Skynet.

I don't see how you wouldn't sympathize with the geth after talking to Legion. You did talk to Legion didn't you?

Also, comparing the geth to Skynet doesn't seem to be well thought out in the least.

Edit: Also to those who didn't activate Legion or gave him to Cerebrus because it was too risky. Firstly you don't get far in life without taking risks. Secondly, do you not have confidence in yourself to be able to handle a single geth considering how many you have killed in the past?

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 16 février 2010 - 09:22 .

[Madecologist]

Yeah, I find it hard to turn him over. I mean, especially in a first playthrough you want to know what Legion has to say. In other playthroughs if you are staying true to Shepard, he probably will want to know it too (or her). No matter what their disposition is. The only reason you would want to give him up is for the money, which is a big fat whoop (as in who cares) in my back. Heck, from a meta perspective, I rather get an extra character, with an extra loyalty mission for more XPs, and have an extra loyal squadmate to keep Collector ass!



Or credits... umm yeah.... easy enough choice!

[casedawgz]

Inverness Moon wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

I'm torn about Legion. I never give him to Cerberus because its just a waste. But I'm still not the biggest fan of geth. Its hard for me to sympathize with the plight of the geth. It seems a bit like supporting Skynet.

I don't see how you wouldn't sympathize with the geth after talking to Legion. You did talk to Legion didn't you?

Also, comparing the geth to Skynet doesn't seem to be well thought out in the least.

Hypothetically I can see where he's coming from. But my sympathies lie with the quarians. If you create an artificial intelligence, it's totally within your rights to not be driven from your homeworld by it.

[Azint]

Legion has the best of both Tali and Garrus. AI Hacking, Combat Drone, and the Widow sniper rifle which makes him the best sniper in the squad. Plus he's voiced by WESKERRRRR!



And he's so shy, it's adorable.

[Inverness Moon]

casedawgz wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

I'm torn about Legion. I never give him to Cerberus because its just a waste. But I'm still not the biggest fan of geth. Its hard for me to sympathize with the plight of the geth. It seems a bit like supporting Skynet.

I don't see how you wouldn't sympathize with the geth after talking to Legion. You did talk to Legion didn't you?

Also, comparing the geth to Skynet doesn't seem to be well thought out in the least.

Hypothetically I can see where he's coming from. But my sympathies lie with the quarians. If you create an artificial intelligence, it's totally within your rights to not be driven from your homeworld by it.

It's not within the quarian's rights to enslave a sentient race and/or attempt to kill them when the quarians discovered their sentience. As Legion said, the geth fought for continued existence; simple enough.

[Keltoris]

Remaix wrote...

I keep thinking how weird it is that some people just outright trust Cerberus. Hey, people? Remember Akuze? Yeah, I'm sure they had a perfectly good and totally not sick reason for THAT.
Also, I'm pretty sure Legion wouldn't betray Shepard. At all. That... that's just not something Legion would do! He's too adorable for that! <3

Bingo.

[Talogrungi]

I considered it, but decided that it could be very handy to have a squadmate along who might not be susceptible to reaper indoctrination.

I means, sure ..he could turn on you, but so could the psychopathic Jack, the serial-killing Ardat-Yakshi, the intolerant Justicar, unpredictable Salarian, ultraviolent Krogan, self-obsessed Mercenary, traumatised Turian or genetically engineered Cerberus operative who probably has a control chip in her brain.

I thought that was the idea; recruiting dangerous and volatile people to combat the reaper threat. Legion is actually quite tame by comparison.

[fateofman]

i trust legion more than i trust cerberus, why would a geth lie when all they wanna do is make a future for themselves and have no desire to kill organics



it was the heretic geth that sided with the reapers

[MutantSpleen]

I can see where you came from, Shepard has little reason to trust the Geth. Also everyone assume Legion must be telling the truth because machines can't make mistakes or lie right? How are they so perfect when they were created by an imperfect race?



Of course everything will turn out good for Shepard trusting the Geth because that's the "good" thing to do. That's the problem with Mass Effect, Paragon Shep is the most naive, trusting, SOB, who will give Geth, Rachni, Krogan, anyone with a sob story a second chance and of course since he/she is such a nice person, the universe sees this and everything turns out to be sunshine and rainbows.



I was really disappointed how not one Paragon choice from ME1 had any bad consequences, and I am getting the feeling that none in ME2 will either. So as long as you pick that blue Paragon choice you have nothing to worry about.



Mass Effect could really take a page from Dragon Age and put some more shades of grey in its palette.

[Remaix]

MutantSpleen wrote...

I can see where you came from, Shepard has little reason to trust the Geth. Also everyone assume Legion must be telling the truth because machines can't make mistakes or lie right? How are they so perfect when they were created by an imperfect race?

Of course everything will turn out good for Shepard trusting the Geth because that's the "good" thing to do. That's the problem with Mass Effect, Paragon Shep is the most naive, trusting, SOB, who will give Geth, Rachni, Krogan, anyone with a sob story a second chance and of course since he/she is such a nice person, the universe sees this and everything turns out to be sunshine and rainbows.

I was really disappointed how not one Paragon choice from ME1 had any bad consequences, and I am getting the feeling that none in ME2 will either. So as long as you pick that blue Paragon choice you have nothing to worry about.

Mass Effect could really take a page from Dragon Age and put some more shades of grey in its palette.

Because... genocide is totally always the right answer?

[klossen4]

cerberus never really can be trusted you are a tool.

[Gabey5]

i would rather not miss out on a squad mate for a few credits,.

[Braag]

Legion is pretty interesting character and I helped it rewrite the heretics. I doubt it will betray me, I guess we'll find out in ME3.

[Madecologist]

The Witcher was good when it came to having ill consequences for even "good actions", hardly anything you could do will not have a consequence, and many times, not as you expected. Most of the time, the choices were between lesser of two evils, or different shades and tints of some nebulous colour.

[Basher of Glory]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Of course everything will turn out good for Shepard trusting the Geth because that's the "good" thing to do. That's the problem with Mass Effect, Paragon Shep is the most naive, trusting, SOB, who will give Geth, Rachni, Krogan, anyone with a sob story a second chance and of course since he/she is such a nice person, the universe sees this and everything turns out to be sunshine and rainbows.

I was really disappointed how not one Paragon choice from ME1 had any bad consequences, and I am getting the feeling that none in ME2 will either. So as long as you pick that blue Paragon choice you have nothing to worry about.

I'm not sure about this.
In ME 1 I let the Asari in Saren's lab on Virmire go. When I met her again in Warlord Okeer's lab (Mission "recruit the Krogan") I allow her again to go.
After she left, Zaed says: 
"This will bite you in the ass some day"

Perhaps it was just a line to show his perspective about potential future threats. But perhaps it was another hint according to the loading screen advices:
"Many actions in ME 2 will have major impact in ME 3"

We will see.

[MutantSpleen]

That is so minor though. Rana may be found doing something bad in ME3 but it won't be anything too important (Even though I am Renegade I happened to let her live in ME1 assuming the blast would get her.) For the most part you can pretty much say if you picked the Paragon choice it either turned out better or no different than the Renegade choice, so far.



The point to my rant is that if the Paragon choice turns out better in all cases or no different then why even give us a choice, its just an illusion. Yes, you can chose to make your game crappier because you didn't pick the blue choice.