171 réponses à ce sujet

[Gilsa]

That really depends on how you're playing the game. If you're automatically clicking the bottom choice because well, it's renegade, then you're going to get dialogue that makes you feel crummy at times. I finished the game with both paragon and renegade even with each other on the last bar, neither maxed out and the only check I failed in the game was saying "surprised?" to Mordin, which automatically put me on Samara's side (not that I would have picked Mordin anyway).

There are moments when it seems a bit more hypocritical to play a paragon, especially when you're saying, "Hi, I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite store on the Citidel" for multiple shops. It's much more straight up to go renegade and say something like, "Hey, your prices are insulting and I buy a lot of equipment so you should be giving me a discount."

Be sweet to Tali as a paragon, but see what it's like yelling at the council as renegade during her loyalty mission. You're asking them what the hell is wrong with them for springing her father's death on her in the middle of the trial like that. If Tali's your girl and they're pushing her around like this, do you want to "reason" with the council or rip them a new hole for treating her that way? I thought Tali was going to be mad at my Shepard for picking renegade dialogue, but she was practically swooning afterwards.

There are times when picking a renegade option is OBVIOUSLY going to give a dick response, but this also applies to when paragon is overly boy scoutish. Telling Jack you're here to "rescue" her fully deserves that "$%!@, you sound like a p****" reply she gives. Picking the renegade "you must be stupid" line leads to the same line that Miranda gives you at the beginning that there's only one way off this base and if you want to go down with a sinking ship instead of coming along, your choice.

Personally I played the game as renegade to merchants/thugs/everyone else, but to my team and civilians/bystanders, I went paragon. It was not hard at all to get both bars to the last bracket at the end by the end of the game.

Edit: Gah, I meant Morinth, not Mordin. I always get those names mixed up. Substitute as necessary.

Modifié par Gilsa, 16 février 2010 - 05:08 .

[DuffyMJ]

Gegenlicht wrote...

Tisiphne wrote...

The renegade choices tend to contradict one another: some are pro-Alliance, anti-Cerberus, some are pro-Human, anti-Alien, some are just jackassery, and some are just the result of pent-up anger. This is different than the Paragon options, that almost always fly.

I mostly agree with this, and I'm pretty sure I know the reason for it as well.

The reason is this: The writers plot a basic storyline which MOSTLY follows the Paragon Path and then flag areas where you could deviate from this storyline. Then they go through again and offer either a more hardass alternative or a nicer alternative. Complicated wording due to the game assuming mostly Paragon but some Renegade choices as baseline if you start an ME2 game from scratch.

The problem here is that only one set of choices presents a coherent story. The other just presents deviations for people who don't like the vanilla choice. That's why they're so incoherent.

That said, sometimes Renegade choices are very sensible not necessarily nice, but sensible. Like letting Miranda shoot the guy who ratted her out. I need her unfettered and concentrated on the mission. Letting her sever that tie to her past with a bullet seemed like the best solution.

Yes I totally agree with this, it really seems like a paragon game where renegade is just like a flavor to set pieces but not the story as an overall arch.  perfect example also would be when you confront sidonis, you can just let garrus tie up the loose end which is in your mission's best interest, or you can step up and risk your neck blocking the shot because it's the right thing to do for garrus' conscience since you're kind of his unofficial mentor.

[Nimander]

I found it easier to be Renegade in ME2 than ME1. It's a lot less 'mean for the sake of mean' in a lot of areas -- though I tend to be never fully Renegade.



I'll admit, though... it /really is/ harder to get Renegade bar maxed unless you're going full arse route. It's kind of frustrating.

[CajunRexShepard]

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this issue... The profiles I have for paragon were cake to make, and easily obtained... I had to *work* at my renegade profile, and some of the choices seemed very unnatural, regardless of your background, political affiliation, or moral compass (or lack of one)... I mean, there are decisions in the game that make sense in the heat of the moment, in combat, but just standing there talking, especially to someone with whom you walked through the fires of hell and back with? ( like Garrus or Tali)... It just doesn't compute. Even a schizophrenic sociopath wouldn't always intentionally bite the hand that feeds him... The most complete hero can be a jerk, and the most psychotic villain can be tender... it's a matter of point of view, but the game only gives you black and white... Choose wisely.

[Inferno Sock]

i just cant, except the few renagade actions

[redloz]

backpedaling happens as a Paragon as well - when you walk into the trap on the Collector ship, Shepard says "The Illusive Man wouldn't betray us, something else must've happened" and Miranda agrees (if she's with you obviously).

Just beforehand I spoke with Tali and told her that I knew Cerberus would betray us, it was just a matter of time. So it's not just the Renegade path that's full of contradiction.

I felt like such a **** playing a full on renegade that I couldn't help but do afew paragon interrupts (which made sense anyway) like the Quarian getting hassled on the Citadel, or that poor Salarian worker who can't breathe during Thane's recruitment mission.

Still, I love the no nonsense regenade approach, and some of the people/aliens you encounter deserve that bad attitude, but just being all out rude during every conversation makes Shepard look like an incompetent moron. I try to balance that a little bit.

Modifié par redloz, 16 février 2010 - 04:57 .

[Mavkiel]

DuffyMJ wrote...
Renegade shepard is like the sociopath's hero, it's so off the wall!!

It depends on how you play it. If you go for paragon options all the time It'd make me vomit. Sometimes, you just have to protect galatic stability by setting a few folks on fire.

[4lice4nn]

My Renegade run was HILARIOUS!!! I laughed so much. It was almost like playing an entirely different game.

[GarethLorn]

KorPhaeron11 wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

The occasional renegade decision makes some sense when you're justifyiably pissed, but seriously, I don't understand how someone can play this game and get more than one renegade box filled.  I'm trying to do a renegade playthrough and it's just awful.  Tali is like "we're looking for a boy named veetor" etc. etc. and shepard is like "you want us to do the dirty work so you can sneak in and get veetor, no way!" (right like... how dare you want to rescue your person... those sneaky quarians...) or "my personal favorite, "i'll give cerbus one chance. just one.  no jacob i don't trust you, you're with cerberus..." and then 2 seconds later talking to tali "hey, what's your problem with cerberus tali? they're looking out for humanity".

Renegade shepard is like the sociopath's hero, it's so off the wall!!

I always play Renegade, I cant play Paragon, I dont understand them and they scare me.

PLaying a Renegade has to do with how im in RL, im a pragmatist.

I can see that to an extent. Shooting the Krogan bodyguards of Fade's representative in Garrus's loyalty mission is something I did with my paragon. Same for setting the Wyrloc speaker on fire, and shooting that Asari in Samara's mission. But as mentioned before, there's no reason to be mean to people like Tali who are nothing but gracious to you, or let innocent people die just because (such as the wounded Salarian in Thane's recruitment mission, the kid on Omega, or even the merc commander at the window). I was, however, fine with killing threats like Rana Thoptis.

[Madecologist]

Kit-Kat-Kun wrote...

Because there Big Stupid Jellyfishes, thats why!

I love that line from ME1, I actually have my Paragon Sheps say it too.

Strange, I admit I took the 100% to Paragon Renegade evolution of my combat mastery class skill. I managed to play a full Hero (maxed out Paragon) and still got my Renegade to 75%. Easy there is a lot of good renegade options, renegade interrupts, and using Intimidate instead of "charm" is the way to do it. See for all decisions I did go Paragon and use charm when the Renegade was like "Be a bigger ass than me" or the Charm option was doing something I exactly wanted (like getting the weapon shop owner to walk into a trap) otherwise I milked using Intimidate (like I shot Conrad's foot and after charming the merchant to come I told him the truth which opens a second Charm and Intimidate option of telling him to be himself. I went with Intimidate).

At no time did I feel my Shepard was being excessively a jerk. Again most Intimidate and Renegade Interrupts are rational. What is pointlessly jerky are white Renegade actions and some Red options. For example I used Intimidate on 90% of merchants, especially in Citadel, I did not want my own voice greating me each time heh.

So no it is not hard to get a high Renegade score. What I find is hard is not letting your Paragon meter to grow bigger or maxing out Renegade. It is a doable, but I agree a few of the Renegade actions is like contridictive. It is like you are being a jerk for the sake of being one. Someone has a youtube video, "Shepard is a such a jerk" and "Shepard is still such a jerk" I think.

All this said, there was a few Paragon options which were a little too.. ummm... lovely dovey.

[DuffyMJ]

Gilsa wrote...

That really depends on how you're playing the game. If you're automatically clicking the bottom choice because well, it's renegade, then you're going to get dialogue that makes you feel crummy at times. I finished the game with both paragon and renegade even with each other on the last bar, neither maxed out and the only check I failed in the game was saying "surprised?" to Mordin, which automatically put me on Samara's side (not that I would have picked Mordin anyway).

There are moments when it seems a bit more hypocritical to play a paragon, especially when you're saying, "Hi, I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite store on the Citidel" for multiple shops. It's much more straight up to go renegade and say something like, "Hey, your prices are insulting and I buy a lot of equipment so you should be giving me a discount."

Be sweet to Tali as a paragon, but see what it's like yelling at the council as renegade during her loyalty mission. You're asking them what the hell is wrong with them for springing her father's death on her in the middle of the trial like that. If Tali's your girl and they're pushing her around like this, do you want to "reason" with the council or rip them a new hole for treating her that way? I thought Tali was going to be mad at my Shepard for picking renegade dialogue, but she was practically swooning afterwards.

There are times when picking a renegade option is OBVIOUSLY going to give a dick response, but this also applies to when paragon is overly boy scoutish. Telling Jack you're here to "rescue" her fully deserves that "$%!@, you sound like a p****" reply she gives. Picking the renegade "you must be stupid" line leads to the same line that Miranda gives you at the beginning that there's only one way off this base and if you want to go down with a sinking ship instead of coming along, your choice.

Personally I played the game as renegade to merchants/thugs/everyone else, but to my team and civilians/bystanders, I went paragon. It was not hard at all to get both bars to the last bracket at the end by the end of the game.

Hm, thanks for this I never thought of it like that, but you're right.  I admit I'm guilty of doing the boyscoutish thing too much, I'll try to adjust my decisions better after freedom's progress toplay along those lines, that actually sounds more fun.

[Mars Nova]

I played through ME1 once as an uber-renegade femshep who almost never did or said anything Paragon. I'm doing the same for ME2.

[Crimson Fluf]

Try actually role playing and not always choosing the lower right option...I dunno just a thought

[DuffyMJ]

Crimson Fluf wrote...

Try actually role playing and not always choosing the lower right option...I dunno just a thought

If I do that I just end up being paragon hahaha

[madisk]

Renegade in ME1 felt just right. Renegade in ME2 feels like he's mentally challenged.

[Beholderess]

Have the same problem. Simply cannot play as a renegade. Some renegade choices are fun, amusing and justified, but full renegade playthrough - no way.

The closest I've got is full paragon-1/3 renegade. Chaotic Good, if you will

[Kileyan]

Renegade is just like in the old game. Several of the main pivotal choices make sense and are very cool. Problem is, you can't make those cool important choices unless you played renegade full bore. See below.........



The rest of the in between filler choices are just stupid jerk choices for the most part, that not even a pragmatic Shep would make. Boo Bioware.

[Tisiphne]

Crimson Fluf wrote...

Try actually role playing and not always choosing the lower right option...I dunno just a thought

Agreed. I think most everybody I've talked to has done some split, with more Paragon than Renegade choices to some degree. However, to unlock some really bizarre cutscene options, you need full bars of one or the other (this is the problem of the good/evil system), so most of us want a full Renegade character in order to see the outcome of having 100% Renegade.

[Crimson Fluf]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Crimson Fluf wrote...

Try actually role playing and not always choosing the lower right option...I dunno just a thought

If I do that I just end up being paragon hahaha

Sorry, you missed what I meant. For me I've created a...um. Bio for every character I have. Write out his personality, if he's an ass write why. Like is s/he racist or not trust Cerberus or the council. Is s/he scarred due to his background and thus lash out a lot. Give him reasons for being a dick, make it detailed. Agreed when I roleplay my personality I'm definately paragon but if you 'create' a new person you give him/her a reason to be a jackass. That's what I meant by roleplaying

[JJDrakken]

I have 1 Male character, who basically human supremicist. Pure Renegade. Perfect Ending(no one died), I gave the Tech to Illusive Man.

I now have sociopathic death worshiping female Adept Im working on.  She killed everything she could in ME1, Wrex, Feros Colony, every person she came across, your old gang ties to Earth, if I could kill it, she killed it.

Now in 2, Im working on a plan to get most maximun kills & still survive the final fight, Im thinking if I get 3 Loyal People(Jack, Zaeed, & Garrus I think Im going for).  I can survive final battle & have everyone else die.




JJ

Modifié par JJDrakken, 16 février 2010 - 05:16 .

[shaneho78]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Tali is like "we're looking for a boy named veetor" etc. etc. and shepard is like "you want us to do the dirty work so you can sneak in and get veetor, no way!"

This line was the one i hated the most as renegade. I also absolutely hated the unjustified violence towards mouse and telon but the rest of it was ok for me. I love the renegade speech right as the very end "the collectors blindside their targets....hit and run. As powerful as they are, they are cowards. They never had to fight the best of us, that's you."

I loved how the renegade shepard settled the miranda and jack fight and saying "charge" to the biotic volus was, as Jack says, mean but funny. Who can forget the many awesome renegade interrupts ("you are working too hard", "what about goodbye", "i'll relinquish 1 bullet" etc....)

[Fishy]

77boy84 wrote...

I played mostly renegade, but did the paragon options if they felt more right.

I'd push a guy out a window, but I wouldn't let a kid walk to his death.

If you walked a different path you might have become that mercenary or a junkies on Omega . Who know.
I don't kill that merc during Thane mission anymore.The guy's obviously scared and he threaten you (I call my friend guard and they will jump you!) because he don't  want to die .. No one want to die.He's not a bloody menace anyway .Sure if he had the chance to kill you . He would probably do it.But that why paragon Sheppy does not kill the guy.Because he's better than that .. Kill a bad guy and 10  will appears.Killing someone that does not threaten you , even though he's a murderer himself .. It's a murder.

Renegade option i find appropriate it's to  punch the boy during thane loyal quest.You obviously don't have time to justify your presense here.


Shooting the gas tank during mordin loyal mission. I tryed to put sense into him .. But the guy would not hear anything.

Shooting the merc during miranda loyal quest.I knew know he would attack him.

There,s plenty of other renegade option . Like the renegade option during Tali Trial .. or the whole - The shop discriminate against the poor!! and plenty other.Some other option though aren't pragmatic choice.More like  being ass .

[newcomplex]

When I'm renegade I'm usually still reasonably nice to my team. Not coddling them, but generally not being mean to them at every occasion. I'm also reasonably nice to people who I havent met and arent in the process of trying to kill me/someone else.

Though I'm with the guy who says roleplay.    Both my characters have personalities.   My paragon tries to be nice, but sometimes just flips out everyone in the ten feet radius just happens to die, often impatient with stupid teammates/people.    My renegade is a mission at all costs kind of guy, but generally nice when it serves him.    Very eloquent, rarely picks bottom dialogue in casual conversation.

Modifié par newcomplex, 16 février 2010 - 05:19 .