28 réponses à ce sujet

[banshee768]

Hello folks.

While browsing through the forums this fine afternoon, I stumbled upon this. Inside was a reply, made by Mr. David Gaider, that went something like this:

Personally, I find it interesting that so many RPG players claim to be fans of the genre but make their requirements for what constitutes an actual RPG so narrow that it doesn't seem to be a genre at all but simply a selection of their few favorite titles. A few titles does not make a genre, after all.

Another thing which I find interesting is the role that nostalgia plays in this. These same players will often swear up and down that there is no nostalgia, but I suspect part of what made older games so special to them is because they were new. That seems like it should be self-evident, but I see a lot of people running on the assumption that the novelty they felt playing an earlier game can be recaptured simply by replicating the features in their entirety -- and looking at those features as if they could exist independently of each other, rather than in the context of a game where there are often trade-offs.

It's also strange that these same people will make contradictory demands: they want novelty and innovation, while simultaneously wanting nothing to actually change. If there was an RPG they liked in the past, they want a new RPG to be made that's just like it but to feel as fresh and new as when they played it back then -- ignoring the fact that they are no longer who they were.

Now that's not to say that people don't like what they like -- just that there's a lot of factors that go into the whole "what is an RPG?" question, many of them emotional. You ask that question and you often get "what should an RPG be?" back. Speaking for myself, I think there's a lot of room in the genre for exploration, and I'm uncomfortable with the entitlement of those who claim to be spokemen for the "real RPG" model -- what they like is intelligent and everything else is "dumbed down" and thus for the less intelligent hoi polloi.

Ideally there would be room for RPG's to come out that cover the spectrum of interests within the genre. If the market is there, the industry will find it. I think what you often encounter is a fear amongst RPG fans that there isn't a big enough market for what they personally like and yet a desire that triple-A games should still be made for them regardless.

So, instead of hijacking the other thread, I ask you, the fans:

What defines a RPG for you?

There are a few things you should take in to consideration, before answering. First, titles aren't genres (as Mr. Gaider says). You might be of the opinion that Diablo II is the perfect RPG. Well, then write down what that game does, that makes it an RPG.
Second, be specific. Saying "there should be some sort of inventory system" and leave it at that doesn't help anyone. I haven't heard of anyone who praised the inventory in Mass Effect for example.

And finally. Defining a RPG as a game where you take the role of someone and solve a problem is... not correct, to say the least. You take on the role of a marine in Doom. You take on the role of a yellow cheese in Pacman. You take on the role of an immortal emperor/king/president in Civilization. I wouldn't define any of those game as RPG.

Happy typing!

[SleeplessInSigil]

Can we just enjoy the games without bothering to define them first?

[Godak]

RPG = Role Playing Game. I think it must be defined on an individual level. Does the game draw you in and make you feel like you are a part of the world? Then it could be considered a role playing game.



I don't think forcing a limiting definition of what an RPG is will do anything but cause pointless problems.

[Statulos]

Basicaly, the closest you can get to an interactive theatrical play.

[Giantevilhead]

The genre pretty much started with Dungeons and Dragons. Anything derived from that model can be called an RPG.

[Godak]

Giantevilhead wrote...

The genre pretty much started with Dungeons and Dragons. Anything derived from that model can be called an RPG.

The genre pretty much started with little kids running around the woods pretending to be Robin Hood (or some other person).

[SargeantRenegade]

For me, an RPG is a game where I actively play the role of a person who is not me, and involves a degree of character development. The other elements of gameplay (setting, combat style etc.) don't matter to me that much.

[Astranagant]

I like to be technical. Any game that puts me in the role of another person is an RPG. The only games that aren't RPGs in some way to me are things like minesweeper and mahjong because there's no character acting as a middleman between me and the game. Although I'm sure they can and have been done in ways in which the player plays the role of a character in the game.

Modifié par Astranagant, 17 février 2010 - 12:19 .

[Baracuda6977]

i think an important distinction that must be made is in an 'RPG' imo, you PLAY a role, you don't FILL a role



playing halo as MC, you are filling the role of the master chief



in DA, you are playing the warden





this unfortunatly wipes out most JRPGs, there are some more factors which include them imo, but not sure which atm

[SkullandBonesmember]

Sorry banshee but in order to articulate my answer in the most productive way I'm going to have to give examples. Don't worry though, I'm not going to list games and let that be that.



As I said recently in another post, Final Fantasy X was my very first RPG. While playing it, I never once thought about all the loot I got, or how cool the Sphere Grid was(I DID love it, but that's a completely separate matter). The one thing that stuck out for me was the sheer amazing story and characters that left a huge impact on me long after Yuna said "don't forget the dreams that have faded". It has aged very well in my opinion and I can still enjoy it, at least for what it is, today as much as my first playthrough. The loot and stats had NO influence on the experience for me. It lived and died by the plot and characters. There are games that aren't meant to be mused over how in depth the story was. For example, my first game I EVER played was Super Mario for the Nintendo. It's a classic game and rightfully so. Most gamers share love for Mario. Fast forward 5 years and I was playing Star Fox 64. Now the story is very simple, but at the time there wasn't much to compare it to and the tech wasn't nearly as good as today's. So pretty much the only thing to enjoy for was the gameplay, and to a lesser extent the visuals. I'd play it again in a heartbeat if I got my hands on a copy. But once I played Final Fantasy X I looked at video games as a whole very differently. After Final Fantasy X, I fell across the game Shadow Of Destiny. http://en.wikipedia....adow_of_Destiny

It wasn't anything like FFX, but this just reinforced my belief that video games have the potential to be so much more than just 'SPLOSHUNS. Then came Indigo Prophecy. I was very disappointed about how the ending was not fleshed out well, but it was originally supposed to be a trilogy and got canceled last minute forcing the developers to cram it all in one disc. Still, it can be a stepping stone for future story-driven games. Next was Mass Effect. It had plot holes and glitches making me work for the game for it to make sense rather than the game working for me. But I was able to overlook these faults because it focused more on plot as opposed to ME2 focusing more on combat. Now I've got a week's wait for Heavy Rain, made by the same guys who worked on Indigo Prophecy and I can't wait. There are different genres for a reason. Not everybody enjoys the same gaming experience. Some place a high priority on combat. Some place a high priority on graphics. Some people place a high priority on "open world exploration" like Fallout 3. I personally, place the highest priority on plot and characters. I think the types of games that attract me will continue to evolve, such as taking a page out of Bioware and Bethesda's books and providing the player not only with the ability to choose what to say but also personalize your characters face. Yes, there is a big market for it. Not as big however as those who want 'SPLOSHUNS. My signature says everything about most gamers today.

[Doug84]

"Role-Playing in a Game world" - So basically, having the flexiblity to play my own take on a role, in-so-far as possible within the medium. No, combat style, inventory or lack of, and gameplay style do not factor into it.



So long as I can have a noticable impact on the role I'm playing as apart of the game, I'll call it an RPG. If not, its another genre (for example, JRPGs are normally adventure game, not RPGs, to me)

[Baracuda6977]

can't we just call JRPGs JRPGs? like the adopted halfbrother we all kinda have to acknowledge even though hes a little off?



they are still great games (usually)

[Doug84]

Baracuda6977 wrote...

can't we just call JRPGs JRPGs? like the adopted halfbrother we all kinda have to acknowledge even though hes a little off?

they are still great games (usually)

I would disagree on the 'great games' part, but they aren't my cup of tea to begin with.

[SkullandBonesmember]

But in the context of 2001 Doug, Final Fantasy X was and still is very much an RPG.

[Doug84]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...



But in the context of 2001 Doug, Final Fantasy X was and still is very much an RPG.

I would disagree - unless its massively different to the typical JRPG. Adventure game, story-based game, certainly. Epic tale, probably (I haven't played it so the story is a mystery to me).



The way I see it, if you, the player, don't have any impact on the story to any degree, its not an RPG - its an adventure game (and I don't mean to imply anything to do with gameplay styles nor combat style - I mean from the strict POV a story being told that you follow without influencing events within the story).

[Godak]

Doug84 wrote...

The way I see it, if you, the player, don't have any impact on the story to any degree, its not an RPG - its an adventure game (and I don't mean to imply anything to do with gameplay styles nor combat style - I mean from the strict POV a story being told that you follow without influencing events within the story).

Are you not playing the role of the hero? Do you need to make choices to play a role?

Think about it. In JRPGs and CRPGs, all you're doing is going through a script. CRPGs may offer some choice as to what way the script will go, but you still have no real affect on the story. It's all somebody else's adventure, and you're just going through the motions.

[FlashedMyDrive]

Who cares about genre? I mean really, you like the game or not.



It doesn't matter.

[Doug84]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

Who cares about genre? I mean really, you like the game or not.

It doesn't matter.

I suppose it doesn't. Its probably a pride thing when we dig right down to it.

[Baracuda6977]

if FFX for me at least, it FELT like it was an RPG because it FELT like i my as well have been impacting the story because given a choice in each of these situations, i connect with the protagonist and make the same choice, i would never see the story any other way





but still, regardless of genre, FFX, FFVII, Star Ocean, Tales of Symphonia (minus the ending), are all great games

[FlashedMyDrive]

Doug84 wrote...

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

Who cares about genre? I mean really, you like the game or not.

It doesn't matter.

I suppose it doesn't. Its probably a pride thing when we dig right down to it.

I'm perfectly find with labeling things, but sometimes it seems like people only like/dislike the game based on it's genre.

And it seems like half the arguements on this board are stemmed from this. Quite unfortunate.

[Vaeliorin]

Godak wrote...

Doug84 wrote...
The way I see it, if you, the player, don't have any impact on the story to any degree, its not an RPG - its an adventure game (and I don't mean to imply anything to do with gameplay styles nor combat style - I mean from the strict POV a story being told that you follow without influencing events within the story).

Are you not playing the role of the hero? Do you need to make choices to play a role?

Yes.  Otherwise you're watching someone else play the role.  Every game ever made wherein there is a character of some sort that you control would be a role-playing game if making decisions for your character didn't matter.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Godak wrote...

Are you not playing the role of the hero? Do you need to make choices to play a role?

I very much agree with Doug on this, at least from a modern perspective. By your definition every single video game with the exceptions of Spore/Little Big Planet and Pong, all games are RPGs. Bull.

Witht that said Doug, Choose Your Own Adventure-esque games technically didn't begin until Shadow Of Destiny or if you prefer, Indigo Prophecy. The concept hasn't been around very long. Like I've said, all video games evolve over the years. You and I both agree story-driven games are the way to go, at least that's what I've interpreted from your posts. If I'm wrong, my apologies. Maybe I should word it differently. Final Fantasy X is a predecessor to modern RPGs. Is that making anymore sense?

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 17 février 2010 - 01:58 .

[Doug84]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Godak wrote...

Are you not playing the role of the hero? Do you need to make choices to play a role?

I very much agree with Doug on this, at least from a modern perspective. By your definition every single video game with the exceptions of Spore/Little Big Planet and Pong, all games are RPGs. Bull.

Heh, true. Though Spore could be considered RPG then as you play the leader throughout most of it 

Witht that said Doug, Choose Your Own Adventure-esque games
technically didn't begin until Shadow Of Destiny or if you prefer,
Indigo Prophecy. The concept hasn't been around very long. Like I've
said, all video games evolve over the years. You and I both agree
story-driven games are the way to go, at least that's what I've
interpreted from your posts. If I'm wrong, my apologies. Maybe I should
word it differently. Final Fantasy X is a predecessor to modern RPGs.
Is that making anymore sense?

Sadly, I missed out on Indigo Prophecy (Fahrenheit this side of the pond) and now they don't seem to stock it anymore (though I'll have a look around at the mail order companies).

Anywho, I suppose I can see the point. Ultimately, I think the root problem of all this is, as you say, the term RPG can be stretched to cover most of gaming.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Try Amazon for Indigo Prophecy.

[DarthCaine]

Role

Playing

Game