613 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordaedil]

People can't seem to bother reading anything unless the consider it entertainment, so here's a little homework: Click here!

Modifié par Mordaedil, 18 février 2010 - 10:48 .

[the_one_54321]

vhatever wrote...
The ATB system? LOL. Having an attack/delay bar? I guess having it made VISIBLE to you was something that had not been done, but it had already been done, if you could see it or not. Even Daggorath had a "timed" sort of system. All the ATB is a stop gap between real time and turn based.

Right, so should we ask you if it's ok to post an example first? Just to make sure you approve of it? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the questions?

[the_one_54321]

Mordaedil wrote...
People can't seem to bother reading anything unless the consider it entertainment, so here's a little homework: http://socksmakepeop...dex.php?a=patff

There's a better one done by gametrailers.com. Fully narrated and all.

[Mordaedil]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...
People can't seem to bother reading anything unless the consider it entertainment, so here's a little homework: http://socksmakepeop...dex.php?a=patff

There's a better one done by gametrailers.com. Fully narrated and all.

True, though the innovative features aren't as easily quoted there.

[MightySword]

Mordaedil wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...
People can't seem to bother reading anything unless the consider it entertainment, so here's a little homework: http://socksmakepeop...dex.php?a=patff

There's a better one done by gametrailers.com. Fully narrated and all.

True, though the innovative features aren't as easily quoted there.

human is a hard creature to please

[the_one_54321]

MightySword wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...
People can't seem to bother reading anything unless the consider it entertainment, so here's a little homework: http://socksmakepeop...dex.php?a=patff

There's a better one done by gametrailers.com. Fully narrated and all.

True, though the innovative features aren't as easily quoted there.

human is a hard creature to please

Well then let's just read/watch them both?

[vhatever]

The first non-linear game was not metroid. It mighthave been the first side scrolling, console game that was non-linear.



Chronotrigger is definitely not the first game with multiple endings. Though it definetly took the multiple endings thing much further than had been done. again, perhaps this is the first multiple ending on consoles. That would be interesting if the FF2 skill thing is correct. I don't recall that in FF2(probably the FF game i've played most no less), and I'm drawing a blank on other games before it that had it. I'll have to think on that one.

[the_one_54321]

vhatever wrote...
The first non-linear game was not metroid. It mighthave been the first side scrolling, console game that was non-linear.

Chronotrigger is definitely not the first game with multiple endings. Though it definetly took the multiple endings thing much further than had been done. again, perhaps this is the first multiple ending on consoles. That would be interesting if the FF2 skill thing is correct. I don't recall that in FF2(probably the FF game i've played most no less), and I'm drawing a blank on other games before it that had it. I'll have to think on that one.

Right. I'm sorry. This university compiling data on this stuff must be wrong. You'd better be sure to let them know.

[MerinTB]

Mokinokaro wrote...

No innovation in JRPGs, really?

Except for the fact that JRPGs were the first to be major breakthroughs and the main reason games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate, etc. existed. Before Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior, western developers didn't really see electronic RPGs as a real possibility. CRPGs were an insanely small niche before stuff like the first Final Fantasy brought RPGs in general to the mainstream.

And JRPGs do have a lot of innovation (though, admittedly, usually cliche plots but Bioware's no better on that front.) They've come a long way from the fully turnbased stuff like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy 1, though some games purposely copy those styles to be retro (which is exactly what Dragon Age is to WRPGs.)

Ok, now I have to dance to the OTHER side of the debate here.

Fallout can be seen as a descendant of Wasteland - a game that came out contemporaneously with Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.  And Wasteland follwed in the footsteps of Wizardry and Bard's Tale, which predate JRPGs.

Ultima (mostly Ultima III) and the Wizardry series BIRTHED the JRPG market in more ways than Disney birthed the anime market.  Much of what the JRPGs of the late 80's and early 90's had for gameplay elements came from Ultima and Wizardry, so don't start pulling that JRPGs made western CRPGs possible.

Even though Dragon's Quest came out in Japan in 1986, it didn't hit the states until 1989.  Final Fantasy didn't hit the states until 1990.

And the CRPG market was well established by the 90's, but the CONSOLE RPG market was just barely starting to be created in the States and took awhile to grow (mid 90's maybe.)

The Computer Gaming market in the states was pretty strong by the late 90's, and so was the CRPG market (FPS weren't the king yet, nor were RTS's well established, and the adventure game market had all but died to be sorta replaced by the short lived FMV puzzle games like 7th Guest) - and the CRPG torch had been almost handed off from Origin to SSI (Interplay was in there, but Ultima had dominated only to be slowly almost replaced by the Gold Box games, and SSI had done good work before those) when Interplay brought about the upstarts Black Isle and Bioware.

There was no need to look to Japan.  Now did some designers borrow what was good and new from JRPG's?  I'm positive they did.

But Final Fantasy did not make Fallout nor Baldur's Gate possible.  It wasn't until FF7 that Final Fantasy even became such a phenomenon in the USA, and that was AFTER Fallout 1.  Remember that many of the FF's didn't even make it to the USA at that point, and were often misnumbered (3 was 6 and such.)

So don't go too far in the other direction. 

[oulzac]

you all crack me up. RPG's are RPG's and FF will continue be a Franchise for years to come, because there are millions of us (people like me) who will continue to play them, and almost any RPG, other than MMO's for that matter. There are millions of people like me who only play RPG's, and since the rpg market has gotten very small as of late, you can bet that FFXIII will still sell very well even due to poor reviews. FFXIII has been the highest per ordered game, not just rpg, of this gen. And if you need to read that yourself, google is your friend.



Now I will also state, I did not read all 21 pages of posts, only the first few.

[vhatever]

the_one_54321 wrote...

vhatever wrote...
The first non-linear game was not metroid. It mighthave been the first side scrolling, console game that was non-linear.

Chronotrigger is definitely not the first game with multiple endings. Though it definetly took the multiple endings thing much further than had been done. again, perhaps this is the first multiple ending on consoles. That would be interesting if the FF2 skill thing is correct. I don't recall that in FF2(probably the FF game i've played most no less), and I'm drawing a blank on other games before it that had it. I'll have to think on that one.

Right. I'm sorry. This university compiling data on this stuff must be wrong. You'd better be sure to let them know.

Spending all my time flying around the internet to correct every idiot out there isn't high on my list. I got plenty on my plate with just this forum and winners like you. Metroid is as non-linear as Rogue, which came long before it. I'm not even sure how metroid qualifies as "non-linear", since all the boards are linear and there is only one way to get the end. Pretty damn linear in my eyes. yes, you can choose to not collect certain items. That doesn't make it any less linear.

It's pretty obvious that site is a joke.

[Balerion84]

BeyondFX wrote...

Bioware in my opinion has really pushed the envelope for what an rpg can encompass. I've played everything Since kotor to ME2 (except for NWN..) and never have I been let down.

If you really want to know what RPGs are about, go play Baldur's Gate 1 & 2. KOTOR and ME 1&2 are awesome as Chuck Norris, but they are less and less rpgs and more like Action RPGs with emphasis on action (which isn't a bad thing, just pointing out the obvious). If you want the prime example of RPG, Baldur's Gate is where it's at. It's AD&D and everything.


As for FFXIII, I'm getting it immediately as it comes out over here. I love the series and need my JRPG fix from time to time. But I agree that japanese developers are stuck in the past, there's no real innovation. But they can create some incredible stories. That's the advantage of linear games, they can focus a lot more on the story.

[JKoopman]

So..... would anyone else love to see a western-style RPG with a JRPG anime art style?

I've thought more than a few times how sweet Mass Effect would be as an anime.

Also @vhatever: Did a JRPG kill your mother and rape your father? What's with the stubborn animosity?

Modifié par JKoopman, 18 février 2010 - 11:57 .

[oulzac]

JKoopman wrote...

So..... would anyone else love to see a western-style RPG with a JRPG anime art style?

I've thought more than a few times how sweet Mass Effect would be as an anime.

Play Tales of Vesperia, or Star Ocean: The Last Hope

Also for those who didn't know, later in the year FF is releaseing its first ever action style rpg, called FFXIII versus, it will play more like a western rpg.

[Mokinokaro]

Ah forgot about good old Wasteland (which never got as big as it should've but computer gaming itself was in its infancy) and Ultima.  

The early games in the Ultima and Wizardry series were extremely niche.  Hell, computer gaming in general was a very new market in the 80s and didn't really pick up until the early 90s.

And the SNES Final Fantasies were just as popular as Fallout.  I know CRPG fans don;t like it to admit it, but FF4 and 6 have fanbases to rival 7's.   And that's not even counting Chrono Trigger.

Phantasy Star 1 predates both Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, but ironically is even closer to Wizardry (it's basically Wizardry with more prominent scifi elements.)

[MightySword]

oulzac wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

So..... would anyone else love to see a western-style RPG with a JRPG anime art style?

I've thought more than a few times how sweet Mass Effect would be as an anime.

Play Tales of Vesperia, or Star Ocean: The Last Hope

Also for those who didn't know, later in the year FF is releaseing its first ever action style rpg, called FFXIII versus, it will play more like a western rpg.

Tales of Vesperia - maybe yes. But Star Ocean: Last Hope: holy cow stay away from that game, it's one of those tittle I will ask people to play to teach them how to "hate" JRPG>

[MerinTB]

Mokinokaro wrote...

And the SNES Final Fantasies were just as popular as Fallout.  I know CRPG fans don;t like it to admit it, but FF4 and 6 have fanbases to rival 7's.   And that's not even counting Chrono Trigger.

FF 3/6 deserves a bigger fanbase than 7.

[addiction21]

MerinTB wrote...

Mokinokaro wrote...

And the SNES Final Fantasies were just as popular as Fallout.  I know CRPG fans don;t like it to admit it, but FF4 and 6 have fanbases to rival 7's.   And that's not even counting Chrono Trigger.

FF 3/6 deserves a bigger fanbase than 7.

YES YES YES and MORE YES!!!

[MerinTB]

Mokinokaro wrote...
The early games in the Ultima and Wizardry series were extremely niche.  Hell, computer gaming in general was a very new market in the 80s and didn't really pick up until the early 90s.

Anecdotal, but all my friends had C64's.  Only one friend has an NES.  I had an NES, but my parents got it for me for X-Mas with Zelda.  I played a little Zelda, and the NES sat with no new games and gathered dust.  I had shoeboxes (as did all my friends) of C64 and later PC games (we switched around the 286 time, circa early 90's)

If you mean the IBM PC gaming market was small, you are right.

But there was the Commodore and Apple and TSR-90 and Atari *whatever the number* markets, too.

The computer game market was niche?  The console game market was even more niche, especially after the Atari crash of the late 80's.

Video gaming became a big thing around the late PS early PS2 days.  Prior to that, niche.

Also, consoles WERE kid game systems in the 80's mostly.  Computer games were played more by adults, and many kids who were children of adults who played computer games.

Modifié par MerinTB, 19 février 2010 - 03:02 .

[mxfox408]

Well first final fantasy game for me was Final fantasy Adventure for the gameboy which was later remade as Sword of mana....only games i can say i ever enjoyed by square is Chrono Trigger/Cross FF VII, FF VIII, FF X, FF VII CC and thats about it i couldnt enjoy the games Square made after that cuz they dont seem to ever really improve really much of anything other than graffics. thier battle systems rarely ever improve but they can learn alot from the western RPG makers.

[The Angry One]

Square Enix are full of crap. The reason their games are selling less these days are because they are.. well.. crap.

Linear JRPGs with set narratives are not automatically less playable than WRPGs, it's just that the recent crop has been utterly lacklustre and FFXIII looks no different.



If companies like Square Enix would look inwards and see what needs to be fixed instead of blaming everyone but themselves things could change for the better. But they won't.

[spernus]

oulzac wrote...

you all crack me up. RPG's are RPG's and FF will continue be a Franchise for years to come, because there are millions of us (people like me) who will continue to play them, and almost any RPG, other than MMO's for that matter. There are millions of people like me who only play RPG's, and since the rpg market has gotten very small as of late, you can bet that FFXIII will still sell very well even due to poor reviews. FFXIII has been the highest per ordered game, not just rpg, of this gen. And if you need to read that yourself, google is your friend.

Now I will also state, I did not read all 21 pages of posts, only the first few.

I don't believe this.

I am sure that the pre-order numbers are not on the Modern warfare 2/Halo 3/GTA IV level.

It's still going to sell rather well even if it's nothing more than good.

The glory days of having a Final Fantasy sell 10 million copies are probably over however.

[craigdolphin]

JKoopman wrote...

So..... would anyone else love to see a western-style RPG with a JRPG anime art style?

I've thought more than a few times how sweet Mass Effect would be as an anime.

Erk...ye gods...please no. Just....no.

You may now have given me a facial twitch.

I personally have never played a JRPG solely because of the art style. Anime is the visual equivalent of bulk high fructose corn syrup IMO. I would sooner eat brussel sprouts than play such a game. Liver even. Heck, even tripe and onions!

I'm happy you enjoy it but please, for the love of all that is holy, do not poison the last bastion of great gaming by wishing anime on WRPG's. C'mon....there seems to be a new JRPG released about monthly, if not weekly. Isn't that enough anime for you? WRPGs seem to be released maybe 1 or 2 a year. And some of those seem to be heading towards FPS crossovers anymore. The day I see an anime gray warden bopping its way across ferelden, with spoonfuls of adolescent angst and spikey hair, is likely the day I quit gaming. And anime shepherd? *shudder* 

Sorry. You might have triggered a slightly visceral reaction/rant there.

[Acero Azul]

watching videos, the story for FFXIII looked pretty in depth, but the gameplay looked a bit too linear

[Garuda One]

FFXIII is basically a movie and like in two parts of the game which I believe are about 20mins a pop you push the joystick foward attack monster A and B and then fight Boss C



/sarcasm truth