613 réponses à ce sujet

[Aeranduil]

Astranagant wrote...

Garuda One wrote...

 http://kotaku.com/54...western-reviews

I know the reason why FF XIII got low reviews from Western folk, two companies, BioWare and Besthedia (sp)

says Toriyama in a recent issue of Xbox World 360. "When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like..."

Hang on I still can't stop laughing.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that FFXIII got bad reviews in Japan from sources that weren't on Squeenix's payroll, and it was almost universally panned by players/consumers as being terrible.

That's also completely untrue. It was received well by some, not so well by others. It had mixed opinions, much like Final Fantasy XII.

Final Fantasy die hards (read: fanboys) don't want the series to change. They want the same JRPG cliches and conventions in each iteration. If we had it their way, we'd be at the 40th iteration of Final Fantasy and the series wouldn't have advanced at all since VII.

It's good to see that they're taking a different direction with XIII. It was risky, and arguably it hasn't paid off just yet because people don't want the series to change in this way. It's becoming more westernised, and that's a good thing, to a certain extent. It's much more cinematic, the lack of towns means the narrative is constantly running at a breakneck speed, no mindless wandering around towns speaking to each NPC twice until they reveal some vital information.

it's a shame to see those classic conventions go, but it's for the best. The series is changing, and it's about time too. It was running into boring, repetitive territory.

Modifié par Aeranduil, 16 février 2010 - 10:21 .

[Grimgor79]

The sad thing is, Final Fantasy games used to rock. I still play some of the oldies (FF VII, even the original Final Fantasy), the new games they put out are fairly terrible though. FF XII sucked, FF X was just OK and this new one looks great graphically but the gameplay and overall game direction look kinda crappy to me

I might rent it but I highly doubt I will bite the bullet and buy FF XIII.

Modifié par Grimgor79, 16 février 2010 - 10:21 .

[ZeroXraven]

newcomplex wrote...

CTR was the best toon racing game ever created. Sorry mario bros.

Mario Kart Ds is the best IMO

[I Ryukage I]

forgot to mention, a good example is Lost Odyssey, created by the man whom created FF7. The graphics are great, music is great, story (only beat the first disc so far, will restart sometime in the future) is a great mix of political and character-driven.



It's main problem I say is gameplay. until the end of the first disc/beginning of the second disc, (6-10 hours or so I believe) the gameplay feature they keep focusing on, the "wall" system, doesnt take full effect until that time.



Its still turn-based combat, with very SLIGHT modifications, which gets old quickly. Outside of combat, the game is very linear. You have those "side-stories" about the main character, but I really wouldnt say that is a side-quest in any way.

[Mahouhashi]

FataliTensei wrote...

I have to admit, JRPG titles like Final Fantasy have the best stories and best characters >_>

In the past maybe. But i've always prefered megami tensei games by far, and while they change and improve, final fantasy stays the same with better graphics and a rehashed battle system. Not to say that's bad, especially if you don't get tired of more of the same. I haven't really been attached to ff characters since VIII. I liked IX & X, but didn't really find the characters memorable.

[Aeranduil]

Mahouhashi wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

I have to admit, JRPG titles like Final Fantasy have the best stories and best characters >_>

In the past maybe. But i've always prefered megami tensei games by far, and while they change and improve, final fantasy stays the same with better graphics and a rehashed battle system. Not to say that's bad, especially if you don't get tired of more of the same. I haven't really been attached to ff characters since VIII. I liked IX & X, but didn't really find the characters memorable.

Agreed, although I really liked the characters in X

Digital Devil Saga has to be my favourite SMT game of all time, such an original and dark RPG.

[Garuda One]

Aeranduil wrote...

Astranagant wrote...

Garuda One wrote...

 http://kotaku.com/54...western-reviews

I know the reason why FF XIII got low reviews from Western folk, two companies, BioWare and Besthedia (sp)

says Toriyama in a recent issue of Xbox World 360. "When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like..."

Hang on I still can't stop laughing.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that FFXIII got bad reviews in Japan from sources that weren't on Squeenix's payroll, and it was almost universally panned by players/consumers as being terrible.

That's also completely untrue. It was received well by some, not so well by others. It had mixed opinions, much like Final Fantasy XII.

Final Fantasy die hards (read: fanboys) don't want the series to change. They want the same JRPG cliches and conventions in each iteration. If we had it their way, we'd be at the 40th iteration of Final Fantasy and the series wouldn't have advanced at all since VII.

It's good to see that they're taking a different direction with XIII. It was risky, and arguably it hasn't paid off just yet because people don't want the series to change in this way. It's becoming more westernised, and that's a good thing, to a certain extent. It's much more cinematic, the lack of towns means the narrative is constantly running at a breakneck speed, no mindless wandering around towns speaking to each NPC twice until they reveal some vital information.

it's a shame to see those classic conventions go, but it's for the best. The series is changing, and it's about time too. It was running into boring, repetitive territory.

Honestly if Japanese RPG's made there games more like the Western ideals, I would play them just as much as I play Western RPG's. I just dislike being not able to decide things and the invisible strings are leading you to your destination. True that in WRPG's all and all your lead to the same point but the outcomes are different. If Japan or Western companies could make a game free roam like Oblivion and Fallout, a story similar to Jade Empire with Mass Effect and the outcomes as to what you do can be seen in the terrain, cosmetics and the people you meet. That would be an interesting game.

[Phaedra Sanguine]

I've been reading through this thread. I used to enjoy "JRPG"s... when I was maybe fifteen or sixteen years old. The spikey hair and woman-esque men didn't bother me, mostly because I didn't know any better. Then I finally got turned on to shooters, which slowly bled into my discovery of a few and far between WRPGs and this inevitably led to my discovery of great games like Mass Effect.



Now, maybe people aren't buying into this FF crap anymore, simply because the fans of the past are now older and looking for more mature games? Honestly, I'm 25 years old, you think I'm going to sit here playing around with metro-sexual japanese guys and adolescent looking women -- or bloody, mud-covered, scar-ridden Commander Shepard?



Just my own personal preference though. I might take a look at FF13, but as I said, the character style in most japanese games nowadays just really turns me off.

[Weskerr]

Garuda One wrote...


Yeah I'm surprised as well. Ironic because Japan as a country despise foreigners and dislike them. If this is to be seen with there video games and companies it seems Japan has taken one step forward and two steps back sort of speak. 

Very true. Also, it would be a better business decision on their part if they admitted to themselves that the quality of games like ME2 is simply better than what they have to offer at the moment. Consumers won't be swayed to buy their games through excuses and rationalizations.

[Kurupt87]

like both jrpgs and wrpgs, both have strong/weak points.

i am looking forward more to ffxiii-versus more than normal xiii, granted this is based on a single fmv and what light info i can find on storyline etc. that hasn't really changed in the last 2 years, but versus looks/sounds, to me, like its going to be a much better game.<<2 yr old opinion, still getting xiii though, i mean i've got all the previous ones, can't stop now. although reading reviews it seems that's what SE have been relying on...

[Ninja Mage]

"Of all the RPGs I’ve played in recent years, this is the first

which has been so linear that it’s little more than riding an amusement

park ride."





I hope not, I hate when the game forces you to go through dungeon after dungeon and doesn't let you explore at all

[WarlockSoL]

I Ryukage I wrote...

forgot to mention, a good example is Lost Odyssey, created by the man whom created FF7. The graphics are great, music is great, story (only beat the first disc so far, will restart sometime in the future) is a great mix of political and character-driven.

It's main problem I say is gameplay. until the end of the first disc/beginning of the second disc, (6-10 hours or so I believe) the gameplay feature they keep focusing on, the "wall" system, doesnt take full effect until that time.

Its still turn-based combat, with very SLIGHT modifications, which gets old quickly. Outside of combat, the game is very linear. You have those "side-stories" about the main character, but I really wouldnt say that is a side-quest in any way.

Wall system?  Are you referring to the barrier protecting the back row?  That's not really that game's "gameplay" system I don't think.  Though it does provide some unique strategy to combat (in terms of destroying the barrier and doing some nice damage to the back row). 

Really, I think the big gameplay draw there is the Immortals.  It adds an interesting tactical distinction as you've got these characters that don't actually die (they get back up after being "dead" for a turn or two), and you've got to protect the mortals who *do* die.  Combine this with some genuinely difficult combat, and I find the gameplay of that game rather interesting.  There is a lot more strategy than Final Fantasy.  In fact, I even use items and such way more than in a FF game.

Honestly, I think Lost Oddesey is great.  I've always found the combat much more engaging than a traditional Final Fantasy title.

[BrotherJason]

I personally enjoy playing both JRPGs and western RPGs ... JRPGs mostly for their graphics (japanese color-blind design ftw! ) and the mostly pretty intense stories, and western RPGs mainly for the same reasons ... and less colors. The JRPGs I liked most were FFV, FFXII, Chrono Trigger, Terranigma and Secret of Evermore. Amongst my favourite western RPGs are Fallout 1 + 2, pretty much everything from Bioware (cheque goes to the usual address) and similar. I don't like open-worlders though because I hate the feeling of having a world to explore but no idea where to start, not to mention the extremely long ways to finally get somewhere, just to find out it's yet another dead end.

Modifié par BrotherJason, 16 février 2010 - 10:38 .

[Garuda One]

Weskerr wrote...

Garuda One wrote...


Yeah I'm surprised as well. Ironic because Japan as a country despise foreigners and dislike them. If this is to be seen with there video games and companies it seems Japan has taken one step forward and two steps back sort of speak. 

Very true. Also, it would be a better business decision on their part if they admitted to themselves that the quality of games like ME2 is simply better than what they have to offer at the moment. Consumers won't be swayed to buy their games through excuses and rationalizations.

I agree if they were to be open minded, realize that Mass Effect has now in first place per say they need to openly admit it, and then tell there buyers that there going to beat them and then hell opne a whole new series, with new story and is like Mass Effect and lets say KotOR or Jade Empire. 

[Garuda One]

BrotherJason wrote...

I personally enjoy playing both JRPGs and western RPGs ... JRPGs mostly for their graphics (japanese color-blind design ftw! ) and the mostly pretty intense stories, and western RPGs mainly for the same reasons ... and less colors. The JRPGs I liked most were FFV, FFXII, Chrono Trigger, Terranigma and Secret of Evermore. Amongst my favourite western RPGs are Fallout 1 + 2, pretty much everything from Bioware (cheque goes to the usual address) and similar. I don't like open-worlders though because I hate the feeling of having a world to explore but no idea where to start, not to mention the extremely long ways to finally get somewhere, just to find out it's yet another dead end.

Really you play games on the bases of there graphics? How old are you? 

[Teredan]

i have no problem with linear rpg, in exchange the story has to rock !!

i fairly liked jrpg in the past but they aren't as compelling anymore as they used to be with the same combat mechanics and gameplay faults

[I Ryukage I]

WarlockSoL wrote...

I Ryukage I wrote...

forgot to mention, a good example is Lost Odyssey, created by the man whom created FF7. The graphics are great, music is great, story (only beat the first disc so far, will restart sometime in the future) is a great mix of political and character-driven.

It's main problem I say is gameplay. until the end of the first disc/beginning of the second disc, (6-10 hours or so I believe) the gameplay feature they keep focusing on, the "wall" system, doesnt take full effect until that time.

Its still turn-based combat, with very SLIGHT modifications, which gets old quickly. Outside of combat, the game is very linear. You have those "side-stories" about the main character, but I really wouldnt say that is a side-quest in any way.

Wall system?  Are you referring to the barrier protecting the back row?  That's not really that game's "gameplay" system I don't think.  Though it does provide some unique strategy to combat (in terms of destroying the barrier and doing some nice damage to the back row). 

Really, I think the big gameplay draw there is the Immortals.  It adds an interesting tactical distinction as you've got these characters that don't actually die (they get back up after being "dead" for a turn or two), and you've got to protect the mortals who *do* die.  Combine this with some genuinely difficult combat, and I find the gameplay of that game rather interesting.  There is a lot more strategy than Final Fantasy.  In fact, I even use items and such way more than in a FF game.

Honestly, I think Lost Oddesey is great.  I've always found the combat much more engaging than a traditional Final Fantasy title.

I don't think LO is a bad game, rather just saying how it uses a semi- old school engine to play, rather than taking a huge risk creating a completely different battle-style, or updating it much more than it already is.

It is a more tactical/harder game than current JRPGs, but all I'm saying is how it is still stuck in the past with gameplay, both in combat and out. The towns and graphics do look amazing, however I couldn't help but feel the liner town exploring, and equip/customize skill system, I have all done before.

I still need to complete the game though I guess, but I feel I have seen a majority of the gameplay all ready.

[StormbringerGT]

I love western RPGS and I love JRPGs as well. They both fill different roles. Same as I like Mario Kart, Forza and Burnout. They are all racing games, but they fill different roles and play differently.

[mortimoo]

the problem for japanese rpg is that they have been huge fans of the genre and have been making them since pretty much the start of video gaming, they have alot of tradition in there formats and traditions are not easy to break free of, in this sense western rpg's like mass effect have the edge as the whole western rpg is reletively new (compared to japanese, anyway) and so have no traditional restraints and can really run in whatever direction they choose.
though square-enix have from what ive read really gone the extra mile with the upcoming final fantasy 13 and have done away with many tradtions and have tried to make the game style more modern and refreshed which is no easy thing to do and whether you like jrpg or not you gotta aknowledge there efforts to shake things up, it is after all a very bold and risky move.
anyway, i love both jrpg and wrpg they both rock. no final fantasy game has ever been a dissapointment (x-2 doesnt count )

i had mass effect 2 on pre-order and loved it, an i have final fantasy 13 on pre-order aswell and will love that too. roll on march 9th!

Modifié par mortimoo, 16 février 2010 - 10:50 .

[AtreiyaN7]

ROFL, Toriyama says that BioWare "dumps you in a big open world..." Wrong company, methinks. He should have aimed that one at Bethesda. Seriously though, if your game is getting poor reviews then that's YOUR fault, not the fault of other companies.

[tthammy]

bioware the best

[BrotherJason]

Garuda One wrote...
Really you play games on the bases of there graphics? How old are you?

BrotherJason wrote...
[...]JRPGs mostly for their graphics [...] and the mostly pretty intense stories, and
western RPGs mainly for the same reasons.[...]

Graphics and story. In Final Fantasy XII I enjoyed the combat system much more than in any of the previous installments of the series, but other than that the differences in basic gameplay principles are pretty trivial after all. That every installment comes with a entirely new story set in really well-designed worlds makes each individual game woth playing by itself and seperates it's from the others. The graphics merely add to this illusion of something entirely new. The story of Chrono Trigger for example is simply awesome. About FFV and XII I liked the new gameplay elements more. While I liked the graphics style of the previous installments I didn't like the style of XII and certainly wouldn't buy XIII for the graphics. However after playing a demo of XII the new combat system convinced me to give it a chance nevertheless. The random encounters are what I dislike about FFs the most so getting rid of those for an entire game was nice for a change. Since XIII looks like it has returned to the old system I don't think I'll pick it up after all.

Haven't played many recent western RPGs besides Bioware games lately. What I like about those most is their story and the feeling to always know exactly what I'm supposed to do next. The graphics aren't top-notch, but quite good.

If I don't know a game or it's ip however and accidently encounter a gameplay video or ingame screenshots of it somewhere I'm much more likely to get interested and search for some additional information if the graphics are good. If they are not the probability of me not even noticing the game, or forgetting about it pretty quickly, are very high.

[Darth_Trethon]

There is only one thing to say about Square Enix: it sucks, mainly because JRPGs suck.

JRPGs were good about 50 trillion years ago back in the stone age when the expectations were essentially crap but that kind of nonsense doesn't fly anymore.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 16 février 2010 - 11:38 .

[ZeroXraven]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

There is only one thing to say about Square Enix: it sucks, mainly because JRPGs suck.

JRPGs were good about 50 trillion years ago back in the stone age when the expectations were essentially crap but that kind of nonsense doesn't fly anymore.

Your my new bestest friend!!! lol

[UsulZorha]

The big issue I have with "JRPG" is, that every hero is a teenager. That also makes for really boring love story sub-plots. I know it's been said but when you have to brake immersion to grind levels to beat the next boss that's just poor game design.