158 réponses à ce sujet

[RE0305]

I think they'll come around, and i think once you present clear evidence the turian counciler will become your strongest supporter.



Often those who are hardest to sway to your cause, become those who are hardest to be swayed from your cause.

[Lvl20DM]

I got the impression that Shep had more solid evidence of the Reapers at the end of ME 2. It also seemed like some people believe in the Reapers already. The Quarians and the Geth both refer to the Reapers as existing, for example. I'm guessing that something will happen in the beginning of ME 3 that will force the galactic community to recognize what is happening. It might even start with Shep being welcomed back by the Alliance/Council because of what he found/accomplished in ME 2.



Some people seem to think that the Reapers are just going to fly back from Dark Space. If that was possible, they would have already done it. They need someone to open a relay for them - the only one we know about that links to Dark space is the Citadel.

[Doug84]

Kenthen wrote...

I fully expect the Turian council member
to go "Ah yes, 'Reapers...'" seconds before the Citadel is blown to
smithereens by a Reaper fleet. Air quotes and all.

Nah, the Reapers will just be disheartened by the sheer strength of his finger quoting.

RE0305 wrote...

I think they'll come around, and i think once you present clear evidence the turian counciler will become your strongest supporter.

Often those who are hardest to sway to your cause, become those who are hardest to be swayed from your cause.

Well, its still annoying. The Council didn't believe Saren was a traitor - Shepard proved it was so. The Council thought Saren was on the run and the conduit was a myth - Saren and Sovereign attacked the Citadel itself and nearly won. So why don't the Council at least admit its possible Shepard is right and put a tiny bit of faith in him?

[Doug84]

Lvl20DM wrote...

I got the impression that Shep had more solid evidence of the Reapers at the end of ME 2. It also seemed like some people believe in the Reapers already. The Quarians and the Geth both refer to the Reapers as existing, for example. I'm guessing that something will happen in the beginning of ME 3 that will force the galactic community to recognize what is happening. It might even start with Shep being welcomed back by the Alliance/Council because of what he found/accomplished in ME 2.

Some people seem to think that the Reapers are just going to fly back from Dark Space. If that was possible, they would have already done it. They need someone to open a relay for them - the only one we know about that links to Dark space is the Citadel.

Its easy to believe in something when it directly talks to you - hence how the Geth know the Reapers are real. The Quarians listen to Tali'Zorah because she's import to them, BUT the Quarians are an insular society and an underclass outside of the Migrant Fleet, so a) they don't talk to others much and when they do, they are often dismissed.

Apparently Vigil died after you spoke to it on Ilos (not surprising), and between the Keepers and looters (and probably Cerberus salvage teams) so little of Sovereign was recovered by the Council to tell it was an AI.

[RE0305]

Doug84 wrote...

Kenthen wrote...

I fully expect the Turian council member
to go "Ah yes, 'Reapers...'" seconds before the Citadel is blown to
smithereens by a Reaper fleet. Air quotes and all.

Nah, the Reapers will just be disheartened by the sheer strength of his finger quoting.

RE0305 wrote...

I think they'll come around, and i think once you present clear evidence the turian counciler will become your strongest supporter.

Often those who are hardest to sway to your cause, become those who are hardest to be swayed from your cause.

Well, its still annoying. The Council didn't believe Saren was a traitor - Shepard proved it was so. The Council thought Saren was on the run and the conduit was a myth - Saren and Sovereign attacked the Citadel itself and nearly won. So why don't the Council at least admit its possible Shepard is right and put a tiny bit of faith in him?

I see your point and when playing the game and being in the role i always think "idiots" to myself when talking to the council.

But i also like the turian council members quote that "even a broken clock is right twice a day". When i try to put myself in a position where policies accepted by me affect the lives of trillions of beings i kind of see their point aswell.

And from that position i see Shepard, a SPECTRE, a solider, as a kind of a trained bloodhound whose sole purpose is to find and bark at things to bring into my attention, but even if this particular hound is very trained and
dependable i can never be a 100% sure that he is barking at the right thing, not unless i see for myself or he comes running back to me with the proof firmly between his jaws.

[Urazz]

justinnstuff wrote...

I fear they'll believe the reaper threat when the reapers actually show up and start to kick in some planets. In other words, when it's apparent and when it's entirely too late.

EDIT - At the end of ME2 though, Shep has a datapad with reaper info. There's a possibility he's got enough intel to prove they exist, but I don't trust the council to believe that either.

Yeah, he has the info that they exist and he isn't crazy but they'll probably reason away that they aren't an immediate threat like Shepard says they are.

I can see the Council's position on the matter but this isn't some random person, it's one of their spectres (former spectre if you don't get reinstated) so they should treat the matter more seriously than they have.

Modifié par Urazz, 16 février 2010 - 11:16 .

[Doug84]

RE0305 wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

Kenthen wrote...

I fully expect the Turian council member
to go "Ah yes, 'Reapers...'" seconds before the Citadel is blown to
smithereens by a Reaper fleet. Air quotes and all.

Nah, the Reapers will just be disheartened by the sheer strength of his finger quoting.

RE0305 wrote...

I think they'll come around, and i think once you present clear evidence the turian counciler will become your strongest supporter.

Often those who are hardest to sway to your cause, become those who are hardest to be swayed from your cause.

Well, its still annoying. The Council didn't believe Saren was a traitor - Shepard proved it was so. The Council thought Saren was on the run and the conduit was a myth - Saren and Sovereign attacked the Citadel itself and nearly won. So why don't the Council at least admit its possible Shepard is right and put a tiny bit of faith in him?

I see your point and when playing the game and being in the role i always think "idiots" to myself when talking to the council.

But i also like the turian council members quote that "even a broken clock is right twice a day". When i try to put myself in a position where policies accepted by me affect the lives of trillions of beings i kind of see their point aswell.

And from that position i see Shepard, a SPECTRE, a solider, as a kind of a trained bloodhound whose sole purpose is to find and bark at things to bring into my attention, but even if this particular hound is very trained and
dependable i can never be a 100% sure that he is barking at the right thing, not unless i see for myself or he comes running back to me with the proof firmly between his jaws.

Fair enough. But you'd think they'd at least devote SOME resources into making absolutely certain that Shepard was wrong. And then this business of ignoring the disappearing human colonies...seemed very short sighted. I mean, is it common for whole colonies to vanish without word and without signs of combat?

Don't get me wrong, I loved ME 2, it just seems the council see what they want to see. Or more actually, don't see what they don't want to see.

Modifié par Doug84, 16 février 2010 - 11:27 .

[alpha54]

Alexandus wrote...

The Council is full of weak-minded socialist politicians who will always convince themselves a problem does not exist rather than facing it.

Cerberus + Shepard = Dead Reapers

Council = Dead Galaxy

I'd go with Cerby and Shep.

QFT.

[DeMoNxDaVe]

Well how i figure it they will not believe you. But they might keep you as a spectre. I believe you'll have to go around and rally people into joining you. Such as the Krogans, like maybe have a nice chat with Wrex or his brother. And of course the Rachni are gonna join up with shep . . . unless you evil people killed them. Hell the Geth and Quarian might actually make a temporary peace to help you to fight. I don't know. I have plenty of ideas but too lazy to type lol

[Doug84]

DeMoNxDaVe wrote...

Well how i figure it they will not believe you. But they might keep you as a spectre. I believe you'll have to go around and rally people into joining you. Such as the Krogans, like maybe have a nice chat with Wrex or his brother. And of course the Rachni are gonna join up with shep . . . unless you evil people killed them. Hell the Geth and Quarian might actually make a temporary peace to help you to fight. I don't know. I have plenty of ideas but too lazy to type lol

That will happen, I reckon.

As for the council...well...

if they believe you, you'll get their backing and the Turian, Asari and Salarian fleets help along with the Human and allied fleets.

If they don't believe you....well, they'll send a Spectre after you - after all, to them, it'll look like Saren v2.0. One idea was they'll send Ashley/Kaiden after you.

[averbalin]

Only way the council will believe it is when they become Reaper feces themselves.

[jklinders]

Doug84 wrote...

RE0305 wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

Kenthen wrote...

I fully expect the Turian council member
to go "Ah yes, 'Reapers...'" seconds before the Citadel is blown to
smithereens by a Reaper fleet. Air quotes and all.

Nah, the Reapers will just be disheartened by the sheer strength of his finger quoting.

RE0305 wrote...

I think they'll come around, and i think once you present clear evidence the turian counciler will become your strongest supporter.

Often those who are hardest to sway to your cause, become those who are hardest to be swayed from your cause.

Well, its still annoying. The Council didn't believe Saren was a traitor - Shepard proved it was so. The Council thought Saren was on the run and the conduit was a myth - Saren and Sovereign attacked the Citadel itself and nearly won. So why don't the Council at least admit its possible Shepard is right and put a tiny bit of faith in him?

I see your point and when playing the game and being in the role i always think "idiots" to myself when talking to the council.

But i also like the turian council members quote that "even a broken clock is right twice a day". When i try to put myself in a position where policies accepted by me affect the lives of trillions of beings i kind of see their point aswell.

And from that position i see Shepard, a SPECTRE, a solider, as a kind of a trained bloodhound whose sole purpose is to find and bark at things to bring into my attention, but even if this particular hound is very trained and
dependable i can never be a 100% sure that he is barking at the right thing, not unless i see for myself or he comes running back to me with the proof firmly between his jaws.

Fair enough. But you'd think they'd at least devote SOME resources into making absolutely certain that Shepard was wrong. And then this business of ignoring the disappearing human colonies...seemed very short sighted. I mean, is it common for whole colonies to vanish without word and without signs of combat?

Don't get me wrong, I loved ME 2, it just seems the council see what they want to see. Or more actually, don't see what they don't want to see.

There would have been plenty of evidence that sovereign was more than an oversized geth ship if Cerberus and god only knows who else had not scavenged all the juicy bits off of the wreckage. Even if Shepard had recorded his conversation with Sovereign there is absolutely nothing to say it was not a VI programmed by Saren. Shepard would likely have had an easier time if Cerberus had not taken so much of the wreck of Sovereign for themselves. All they left for council investigators was junk.

The only othe revidence is in Shepard's head, all the beacons are destroyed and apparantly the data Liara downloaded frm the prothean VI was lost by the writers beteen ME1 and ME2. All that's left is Shepard's word and maybe they just don't trust him because he is not Salarian, Turian or Asari.

[A Blind Bandit]

I propose a new council composed of: a quarian, a geth platform, and a krogan. At least they actually listen and have been through the hard **** unlike the current council races.

[Jimbe2693]

I think one of the reasons Bioware made the council remain stubborn bastards was to make Cerberus look good.

They'll believe you with that info you got from the collector base, perhaps if you leave Cerberus they'll get their arses moving.

[Doug84]

jklinders wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

RE0305 wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

Kenthen wrote...

I fully expect the Turian council member
to go "Ah yes, 'Reapers...'" seconds before the Citadel is blown to
smithereens by a Reaper fleet. Air quotes and all.

Nah, the Reapers will just be disheartened by the sheer strength of his finger quoting.

RE0305 wrote...

I think they'll come around, and i think once you present clear evidence the turian counciler will become your strongest supporter.

Often those who are hardest to sway to your cause, become those who are hardest to be swayed from your cause.

Well, its still annoying. The Council didn't believe Saren was a traitor - Shepard proved it was so. The Council thought Saren was on the run and the conduit was a myth - Saren and Sovereign attacked the Citadel itself and nearly won. So why don't the Council at least admit its possible Shepard is right and put a tiny bit of faith in him?

I see your point and when playing the game and being in the role i always think "idiots" to myself when talking to the council.

But i also like the turian council members quote that "even a broken clock is right twice a day". When i try to put myself in a position where policies accepted by me affect the lives of trillions of beings i kind of see their point aswell.

And from that position i see Shepard, a SPECTRE, a solider, as a kind of a trained bloodhound whose sole purpose is to find and bark at things to bring into my attention, but even if this particular hound is very trained and
dependable i can never be a 100% sure that he is barking at the right thing, not unless i see for myself or he comes running back to me with the proof firmly between his jaws.

Fair enough. But you'd think they'd at least devote SOME resources into making absolutely certain that Shepard was wrong. And then this business of ignoring the disappearing human colonies...seemed very short sighted. I mean, is it common for whole colonies to vanish without word and without signs of combat?

Don't get me wrong, I loved ME 2, it just seems the council see what they want to see. Or more actually, don't see what they don't want to see.

There would have been plenty of evidence that sovereign was more than an oversized geth ship if Cerberus and god only knows who else had not scavenged all the juicy bits off of the wreckage. Even if Shepard had recorded his conversation with Sovereign there is absolutely nothing to say it was not a VI programmed by Saren. Shepard would likely have had an easier time if Cerberus had not taken so much of the wreck of Sovereign for themselves. All they left for council investigators was junk.

The only othe revidence is in Shepard's head, all the beacons are destroyed and apparantly the data Liara downloaded frm the prothean VI was lost by the writers beteen ME1 and ME2. All that's left is Shepard's word and maybe they just don't trust him because he is not Salarian, Turian or Asari.

True...true... and the keepers where said to have made off with some of the salvage from Sovereign.

Whilst I think about it, am I the only one who thinks there are probably dozens if not hundreds of partially indocrated sleeper agents on the Citadel now because they keep a piece of Sovereign's hull in their wardrobe?

Of course, I'm hoping the Council really do believe in the Reapers, but aren't telling Shepard because he's working for Cerberus (And for all they know, under Cerberus control, given they rebuilt him). But I suspect they don't. A pity, but you are right when you say the evidence is just not their.

Makes sense really - the Reapers have had millions of years to perfect the art of subtle influence to make sure they aren't detected early.

[jklinders]

Doug84 wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

RE0305 wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

Kenthen wrote...

I fully expect the Turian council member
to go "Ah yes, 'Reapers...'" seconds before the Citadel is blown to
smithereens by a Reaper fleet. Air quotes and all.

Nah, the Reapers will just be disheartened by the sheer strength of his finger quoting.

RE0305 wrote...

I think they'll come around, and i think once you present clear evidence the turian counciler will become your strongest supporter.

Often those who are hardest to sway to your cause, become those who are hardest to be swayed from your cause.

Well, its still annoying. The Council didn't believe Saren was a traitor - Shepard proved it was so. The Council thought Saren was on the run and the conduit was a myth - Saren and Sovereign attacked the Citadel itself and nearly won. So why don't the Council at least admit its possible Shepard is right and put a tiny bit of faith in him?

I see your point and when playing the game and being in the role i always think "idiots" to myself when talking to the council.

But i also like the turian council members quote that "even a broken clock is right twice a day". When i try to put myself in a position where policies accepted by me affect the lives of trillions of beings i kind of see their point aswell.

And from that position i see Shepard, a SPECTRE, a solider, as a kind of a trained bloodhound whose sole purpose is to find and bark at things to bring into my attention, but even if this particular hound is very trained and
dependable i can never be a 100% sure that he is barking at the right thing, not unless i see for myself or he comes running back to me with the proof firmly between his jaws.

Fair enough. But you'd think they'd at least devote SOME resources into making absolutely certain that Shepard was wrong. And then this business of ignoring the disappearing human colonies...seemed very short sighted. I mean, is it common for whole colonies to vanish without word and without signs of combat?

Don't get me wrong, I loved ME 2, it just seems the council see what they want to see. Or more actually, don't see what they don't want to see.

There would have been plenty of evidence that sovereign was more than an oversized geth ship if Cerberus and god only knows who else had not scavenged all the juicy bits off of the wreckage. Even if Shepard had recorded his conversation with Sovereign there is absolutely nothing to say it was not a VI programmed by Saren. Shepard would likely have had an easier time if Cerberus had not taken so much of the wreck of Sovereign for themselves. All they left for council investigators was junk.

The only othe revidence is in Shepard's head, all the beacons are destroyed and apparantly the data Liara downloaded frm the prothean VI was lost by the writers beteen ME1 and ME2. All that's left is Shepard's word and maybe they just don't trust him because he is not Salarian, Turian or Asari.

True...true... and the keepers where said to have made off with some of the salvage from Sovereign.

Whilst I think about it, am I the only one who thinks there are probably dozens if not hundreds of partially indocrated sleeper agents on the Citadel now because they keep a piece of Sovereign's hull in their wardrobe?

Of course, I'm hoping the Council really do believe in the Reapers, but aren't telling Shepard because he's working for Cerberus (And for all they know, under Cerberus control, given they rebuilt him). But I suspect they don't. A pity, but you are right when you say the evidence is just not their.

Makes sense really - the Reapers have had millions of years to perfect the art of subtle influence to make sure they aren't detected early.

I am giving huge credit to bioware's writers here. They have perfectly captured the essence of what it is like to KNOW what is happening, but because you are the only person who has seen it no one believes you. I just want to smah that turian every time he opens his mouth and that is before the air quotes. But I do not think they are indoctrinated, I think their intelligence service is being manipulated by Cerberus.

Did you see my post in the other topic you started about the council the other day. i don't feel like typing that wall o text again. It thoroughly outlines my reasoning behind their skepticism.

[petipas1414]

meznaric wrote...

Is it possible that the Citadel is somehow affecting them to not believe it?

I like this point a lot. Anything is possible, right?

The only way we'll know for sure is when the reapers break through and the **** hits the fan.

But for my 2 cents, we all saw the PDA with the reaper info at the end of the game... I don't think the council would be able to refute that.

[Delta Green]

Council: Shepperd! The Reapers have arrived and are threatening the citadel!



Shepperd: Ah yes "Reapers", Joker cut this channel



I'll take ten ME3 copies if bioware includes this scene

[D4rk50ul808]

I think the point of them is to test your patience as a Paragon. I'm sure that if you follow the nice path they will eventually come around and back you up.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Well, considering you destroyed the "spyvessel" IN the Presidium, and the council, still downplays it as a myth,............then no, we're on our own.

To add to that, we are now being considered a 'rogue spectre', I bet we get to defend ourselves in a courtmarshall.

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

Alexandus wrote...

meznaric wrote...

Hey, socialist does not equal weak minded!

I said Socialist AND weak-minded. Not that Socialist = weak-minded.

But while we're on the subject, that is a path that will LEAD to weakness and stagnation, it perverts the natural order, which is Darwinian Chaos. In a perfect world, it would work, if we lacked individuality, it would work, but it isn't that way.

Sith Reaper wrote...

Yeah. I actually laughed out loud because it seems the guy doesn't know what being a socialist means.

*blinks* lol, I know what Socialist means, I was simply assuming the council was inclined that way based on how they've acted thus far. Just a guess, calm down.

Actually it has been socialist and communist states that have murdered more people and commited genocide in the modern era. ex. China, USSR, N**i Germany.

Modifié par TOBY FLENDERSON, 17 février 2010 - 01:43 .

[Doug84]

jklinders wrote...

Doug84 wrote...



True...true... and the keepers where said to have made off with some of the salvage from Sovereign.



Whilst I think about it, am I the only one who thinks there are probably dozens if not hundreds of partially indocrated sleeper agents on the Citadel now because they keep a piece of Sovereign's hull in their wardrobe?



Of course, I'm hoping the Council really do believe in the Reapers, but aren't telling Shepard because he's working for Cerberus (And for all they know, under Cerberus control, given they rebuilt him). But I suspect they don't. A pity, but you are right when you say the evidence is just not their.



Makes sense really - the Reapers have had millions of years to perfect the art of subtle influence to make sure they aren't detected early.

I am giving huge credit to bioware's writers here. They have perfectly captured the essence of what it is like to KNOW what is happening, but because you are the only person who has seen it no one believes you. I just want to smah that turian every time he opens his mouth and that is before the air quotes. But I do not think they are indoctrinated, I think their intelligence service is being manipulated by Cerberus.



Did you see my post in the other topic you started about the council the other day. i don't feel like typing that wall o text again. It thoroughly outlines my reasoning behind their skepticism.

True, true. And maybe, I'll go back to my topic in the morning and see if I've already read it yet (its late here so I'll probably be off to sleep as soon as I've finished this post).



I have to agree with you about the writers - damn good at what they do. I personally don't see why so many people seem to think the plot is 'full of plot holes' whenever something isn't completely explained to them then and there, as a lot of the whiner have been saying stuff like that.

petipas1414 wrote...

meznaric wrote...



Is it possible that the Citadel is somehow affecting them to not believe it?

I like this point a lot. Anything is possible, right?



The only way we'll know for sure is when the reapers break through and the **** hits the fan.



But for my 2 cents, we all saw the PDA with the reaper info at the end of the game... I don't think the council would be able to refute that.

I think its possible, and within the power of the Reapers. But the problem with that theory is that Anderson hasn't been affected by it. Though 2 years might not be long enough to work on him...



Though I think its a combination of a lack of real evidence like jklinders has been saying and a desire not to want to see that threat rather than Reaper control.

[Nightwriter]

No, they won’t believe us.



ME3 will show the Council holding a meeting in the wreckage of the Citadel with lasers firing everywhere and husk spikes protruding from their chests, telling Shepard he is being ridiculous and the Reapers are just a myth which he insists upon perpetuating.



What? Bitter? Me? Preposterous.

[dawsdgd]

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par dawsdgd, 17 février 2010 - 02:13 .

[NvVanity]

I can think of one logical way for Shepard to get enough evidence to prove the Reapers exist. However doing so will ****** off a lot of people. Cerberus according to ME Revelations has access to Reaper Technology and they probably have numerous documents on "Dragons Teeth" and other Reaper devices. If Shepard were to say ransack their main base of all data and turn it over to the council then they might just believe him.



However doing so will definitely make Cerberus out to get you and plus handing over all of that might cause the Council to abuse it.