68 réponses à ce sujet

[rumination888]

Jack and Samara > Jacob for Sentinels.
Pull Field on a 3 second cooldown, and you only need Tech Armor/Warp as a Sentinel to be truely effective, leaving you a lot of skill points to dump in a bonus ammo power.

[JaegerBane]

Looy wrote...

Scenario:

*On harder settings, Miranda is easily the best squaddie becausce she can strip all types of defence.

*On all settings, Jacob is rubbish.

*Jacob is boring as a person.


Suggestion:

*Swap Jacob's pull for Miranda's warp.

*Delete Jacobs voice files and replace them with random Mr T quotes ripped from youtube.

Frankly I would have used him far more often if he had Disruptor ammo. Fire ammo is good, but it's common.

[Urazz]

Jacob gets better once he gets barrier and becomes harder to kill. Otherwise, he's too squishy for me. Overall, he's an okay squadmate when grouped with Miranda or other squadmates that can remove defenses but sucks if he is by himself.



Pretty much none of the other squadmates get close to Miranda's level of usefulness. She's ideal for all squads since she provides a damage/health increase and can remove all defenses.

[Graunt]

rumination888 wrote...

Jack and Samara > Jacob for Sentinels.
Pull Field on a 3 second cooldown, and you only need Tech Armor/Warp as a Sentinel to be truely effective, leaving you a lot of skill points to dump in a bonus ammo power.

This.  Even with Pull Jacob is trash.  The instances in which you can make effective use of Pull to Warp explode *many* enemies is few, and before someone goes and makes a video of the three spots in the game where it's great, I said few, not none.  And instead of using Cryo blast because it's "cool" you could just Warp again and kill most enemies.

I would much rather have Samara than Jacob if I really need pull and the group ammo doesn't really add that much when your squad is already doing less damage per shot than what the player is.  Your Sentinel is going to have rank 4 AP or Warp ammo anyway.  You can clear out most areas by simply having an extra person with Warp or Reave, so for a Sentinel Miranda, Samara and Thane are the best squadmates with the others being situationally great depending on the mission.  Jacob however has absolutely no redeeming value at all.  His biggest problem is that his weapon selection sucks and he's far too fragile until a high level barrier to ever make effective use of the shotgun in the range he needs to be at for it to actually do anything.

Modifié par Graunt, 16 février 2010 - 11:12 .

[gr00grams]

A good way to make use of Jacob is use him and Miranda as your squad.



They are the main two for a reason.

They bust combos with each other without you even needing to do anything.



Jacobs synergy is with Miranda, not the player as much.

The two are the perfect compliment to each other. Using both as your squad makes a very, very good team. One of the best combinations really.

[Graunt]

For any heavy Blue Sons (or Geth) missions, Zaeed + Miranda >>>> Miranda + Jacob.  And for the few enemies you encounter that would have armor, you potentially have two Warps and a grenade.  If you're a Sentinel or Adept of course.

Modifié par Graunt, 16 février 2010 - 11:21 .

[SpideyKnight]

DirewolfX wrote...

SpideyKnight wrote...

Average Gatsby wrote...

I have a Contrarian Opinion here: I'm going to go so far as to say that Jacob is actually the BEST squadmate to have with you if you are playing as an assault sentinel. And if I make an assault sentinel guide, I will show you why.

It just baffles me how dense the player base is.  When Jacob gives the ENTIRE squad +weapon damage, just by being there, then and only then will he even come close to Miranda's usefulness.  He doesn't, so he isn't, case closed.  Miranda is the best teammate, whether you like her or not, bar none, simply by virtue of what she brings to the table just by being there.

One, the topic isn't Jacob vs. Miranda.  It's mostly just a Jacob thread.

Two, I don't think anyone is debating that Miranda is a great all-purpose character with her ability to strip all defenses and passive bonuses, but in some cases bringing a specialized character is better.

Three, if Average Gatsby says he has a reason for choosing Jacob over Miranda, I'm going to take his word for it.  He's proven that he's pretty good at this game with his excellent Adept tutorials and the Cryo Engineer montage.  Calling him dense reflects poorly on you.

This is a thread dedicated to making Jacob less useless, to do that you need to compare him to the benchmark(best) NPC and see what he lacks, and what he can do/what can be done to make up for that.

 I'm going to go so far as to say that Jacob is actually the BEST squadmate to have with you if you are playing as an assault sentinel.

Those are his exact words.   Once again, I will note that, without a preface saying besides Miranda, this is an incorrect conclusion to come to.  It's like coming to the conclusion that 2+2 = 9.  

I can make a vid of me blasting this game on any difficulty, on any class, it isn't hard.  Most of the complainers here just can't adapt or are like the WoW kiddies and want to complain because their chosen class takes more work for what some see as a lesser effect.

You would have to name this "case" where another squad member is preferable to Miranda.  I can't personally think of one myself.  The +weapon damage/Health and ability to strip off defenses is far too useful.  If the game is challenging I'd recommend taking her everywhere.  I personally leave her behind on a few missions simply because I like to roll with the ME1 duo of Tali/Garrus when possible.

[Graunt]

You would have to name this "case" where another squad member is
preferable to Miranda.  I can't personally think of one myself.  The
+weapon damage/Health and ability to strip off defenses is far too
useful.  If the game is challenging I'd recommend taking her
everywhere.  I personally leave her behind on a few missions simply
because I like to roll with the ME1 duo of Tali/Garrus when possible.

It depends on your class, but I'd argue that Thane is better than Miranda for the final mission as an Adept or Sentinel.  You're losing a small (very very small compared to the damage done on Insanity) health boost but actually gaining more damage through Thane than what her passive brings to the group.

As to how to make Jacob less useless?  Give him either a Sniper Rifle (doesn't seem to fit) or an Assault Rifle or even an SMG in place of the shotgun.  Squadmates just don't make very good use out of them outside of 1/10th of the game.

Modifié par Graunt, 16 février 2010 - 11:32 .

[gr00grams]

Yeah Miranda does have quite a few missions where she is definitely not the best choice to take.

She is one of the best overall yes, but not always.



Like Grunts loyalty.

There are many other characters much better for that mission.

Same for collector missions, for the most.



In those situations, having like Samara is a much better choice than Miranda. Thane as mentioned as well.



Miranda is a jack of all trades.

Knowing now (with how much I play ME1/ME2), I find I rarely use Miranda anymore, as there are specialists that are usually a better choice.



Like on mech heavy maps, Zaeed/Garrus is better than Miranda, as it's soley focused.

Armor heavy, usually Grunt, Thane, Mordin, Jacob, etc.

Collectors Samara, Jack, Thane, etc.



Miranda is very good yes, but once you know exactly what enemies are on which levels, her use goes waaay down if your going for using the best people for the job.

[DirewolfX]

SpideyKnight wrote...

This is a thread dedicated to making Jacob less useless, to do that you need to compare him to the benchmark(best) NPC and see what he lacks, and what he can do/what can be done to make up for that.

 I'm going to go so far as to say that Jacob is actually the BEST squadmate to have with you if you are playing as an assault sentinel.

Those are his exact words.   Once again, I will note that, without a preface saying besides Miranda, this is an incorrect conclusion to come to.  It's like coming to the conclusion that 2+2 = 9.  

I can make a vid of me blasting this game on any difficulty, on any class, it isn't hard.  Most of the complainers here just can't adapt or are like the WoW kiddies and want to complain because their chosen class takes more work for what some see as a lesser effect.

You would have to name this "case" where another squad member is preferable to Miranda.  I can't personally think of one myself.  The +weapon damage/Health and ability to strip off defenses is far too useful.  If the game is challenging I'd recommend taking her everywhere.  I personally leave her behind on a few missions simply because I like to roll with the ME1 duo of Tali/Garrus when possible.

Alright, time to put your money where your mouth is.  Make a video of you playing all of Horizon or Collector Ship on Insanity as a Sentinel.  No cuts; regular new game (not NG+).

Now as to why Miranda is not the ultimate squadmate:

1. Poor weapons.  Besides her abilities and her passive squad buff, she does not dish out much damage herself.

2. Long cooldowns.  She does not get a passive cooldown reduction, so she only gets the 20% passive cooldown reduction you get from research.  This means that more often than not (especially in the early game), her abilities are not up when you need them.

Say I was going up against a lot of Blue Suns.  I will take Garrus and Zaeed.  Garrus has overload and assault rifles.  Zaeed has disruptor ammo and assault rifles.  Both are great at taking down shields.  Once the shields are down, both have concussive blast to CC enemies.  If I need to deal with the occasional boss or mech with armor, they can switch to sniper rifles and use Garrus's AP ammo and Zaeed's Inferno Grenade.  Their assault rifles and sniper rifles do more than Miranda with her passive buffs and they're being more useful when their abilities are on cooldown.

[mundus66]

gr00grams wrote...

Yeah Miranda does have quite a few missions where she is definitely not the best choice to take.
She is one of the best overall yes, but not always.

Like Grunts loyalty.
There are many other characters much better for that mission.
Same for collector missions, for the most.

In those situations, having like Samara is a much better choice than Miranda. Thane as mentioned as well.

Miranda is a jack of all trades.
Knowing now (with how much I play ME1/ME2), I find I rarely use Miranda anymore, as there are specialists that are usually a better choice.

Like on mech heavy maps, Zaeed/Garrus is better than Miranda, as it's soley focused.
Armor heavy, usually Grunt, Thane, Mordin, Jacob, etc.
Collectors Samara, Jack, Thane, etc.

Miranda is very good yes, but once you know exactly what enemies are on which levels, her use goes waaay down if your going for using the best people for the job.

Warp and overload is always useful and if your a shooter class (Vanguard, Infiltrator or Soldier) you are gonna want to have 15% weapon damage. The only missions where i don't bring her are some loyalty missions since 1 spot is filled and there are better squad members for some of them. Like Mordin on Grunts loyalty mission for example, due to every mob having armor and incinerate > warp for armor. If you are able to bring 2 members of your choice, i almost always bring Miranda as one of them though.

[Arde5643]

Miranda is usually useful on regular missions or at least, she's not that bad compared to other teammates in some missions.



For specialized missions though, the specialized squad mates are usually better (against geth/syntethics/collectors/husks/scions), heck she's just middling in all specialized missions.



And if you're an adept/sentinel/engineer, Miranda is usually not the best choice you can get because as the power classes you usually have no issue stripping defenses.



Jacob's usefulness depends on the missions and the teammates you bring though.

For example: against collectors, he's a pretty good alternate to Samara if you take reave as bonus power and keep Thane in for pull/warp combo.

For the collector fights, you can actually alternate between Samara/Jacob/Jack as long as you keep in Thane.

Miranda's really mediocre here and all the other teammates are just useless.



In missions where you have melee fights (Grunt's mission, IFF reaper), his incendiary ammo and barrier makes him a good meatshield to strip armor with some pull to stun/insta-kill melee enemies.



But yes, Jacob's definitely a very specialized team member.

[DirewolfX]

mundus66 wrote...

Warp and overload is always useful and if your a shooter class (Vanguard, Infiltrator or Soldier) you are gonna want to have 15% weapon damage. The only missions where i don't bring her are some loyalty missions since 1 spot is filled and there are better squad members for some of them. Like Mordin on Grunts loyalty mission for example, due to every mob having armor and incinerate > warp for armor. If you are able to bring 2 members of your choice, i almost always bring Miranda as one of them though.

The 15% weapon damage is actually LEAST useful for a shooter class (except maybe for Vanguard, I'll get to it in a second).  As a dev explained in another thread (http://social.biowar...ex/1171230&lf=8), all percentage buffs are added together before being applied.  Soldiers and Infiltrators are generally operating under heavy damage buffs already, so the relative effect of Miranda's passive buff is much smaller.  Both have 9% or 15% from their class skill.  Soldiers have either 100% or 140% from Adrenaline Rush.  Infiltrators have 75% from Assassin's Cloak (a good Infiltrator will never pick Enhanced Cloak).

So let's take the weakest of those: An Agent Infiltrator with Assassin's Cloak:  They get +84% passive damage from their own buffs.  Add in Miranda's 15% weapon damage bonus and we get +99% bonus damage.  So 199% of the base damage.  15%/199% => You're only getting 7.5% actually bonus damage from Miranda.

It gets even worse once you get weapon upgrades, since they add in like that also.  Heightened Adrenaline Rush on a Commando: +140% (HAR) + 15% (Commando) + 50% (5/5 upgraded weapon) + 15% (Miranda) = +220%.  15%/320% => +4.7% damage.  Whoop-de-do.

It's a little better for Vanguards since they don't get the huge bonuses of Cloak or Adrenaline Rush.  Ammo Powers might improve her passive a bit more as well.  I'm not sure if they are calculated off of base weapon damage or adjusted weapon damage.  If the former, it makes her worse.  If the latter it makes her better (especially for Vanguard).  Still, her powers are great early game, but become weak late game when you have +50% weapon damage from upgrades.

[rumination888]

Some people are short-changing Miranda.
She has a combined 40% bonus to weapon damage. The only other person that's better or matches that is Thane. Not only that, but she gives another 15% boost to damage to both you and your other squadmate. Her total contribution to damage is much higher than someone with an Assault or Sniper Rifle(excluding Thane... if you could make him shut off Shredder Ammo he'd be amazing with a Vanguard/Infiltrator/Soldier).
Since the weapon damage modifier against protecion is a multiplier rather than an addition, her contribution is even better if you're smart with your squad weapon choices.

Since some people still don't think Miranda is the best for practically every situation, she's actually underrated.

[Atmosfear3]

If Jacob had an assault rifle instead of that useless pistol, he might actually be more useful. I'm really disappointed in some of the weapon selections for squadmates. Jacob, Jack, Tali are the biggest offenders by far.

[Graunt]

rumination888 wrote...

Some people are short-changing Miranda.
She has a combined 40% bonus to weapon damage. The only other person that's better or matches that is Thane. Not only that, but she gives another 15% boost to damage to both you and your other squadmate. Her total contribution to damage is much higher than someone with an Assault or Sniper Rifle(excluding Thane... if you could make him shut off Shredder Ammo he'd be amazing with a Vanguard/Infiltrator/Soldier).
Since the weapon damage modifier against protecion is a multiplier rather than an addition, her contribution is even better if you're smart with your squad weapon choices.

Since some people still don't think Miranda is the best for practically every situation, she's actually underrated.

The 40% bonus assumes all squad members are doing the same damage per shot as what you are with the same weapon/ammo (and they aren't?) and also assumes she's not being parked in a corner to be kept alive due to her having one of the most idiotic AIs of all squad members.  If she's dead her passive is not doing anything and if you're parking her in a corner so she doesn't die, it's contribution is lessened.  I bring her for Warp and Overload anyway, because by the time you can actually get her rank 4 passive you're 3/4 of the way through the game if not more.  The main reason she's so good is because of her versatile stripping, not her passive.

Miranda is very good yes, but once you know exactly what enemies are on
which levels, her use goes waaay down if your going for using the best
people for the job.

Pretty much this.  She's great when you're first learning all of the areas because you have something you might need at any given moment, but she falls behind on specific map types.  Try taking Zaeed on Mordin's loyalty mission and watch things just fall over.  It's even dumber if you're playing a class with Warp.

Modifié par Graunt, 17 février 2010 - 12:31 .

[rumination888]

Graunt wrote...
The 40% bonus assumes all squad members are doing the same damage per shot as what you are (and they aren't?) and also assumes she's not being parked in a corner to be kept alive due to her having one of the most idiotic AIs of all squad members.  If she's dead her passive is not doing anything and if you're parking her in a corner so she doesn't die, it's contribution is lessened.  I bring her for Warp and Overload anyway, because by the time you can actuall get her rank 4 passive you're 3/4 of the way through the game if not more.

I said 40%, not 45%. The 40% bonus is to her damage alone. And I don't know about you, but she has her rank 4 passive as soon as you finish Freedom's Progress. You'll cut a swathe right through enemies after Freedom's Progress without having to touch any of you or your squaddie's powers if you also have Jacob use squad Incendiary(replaced with Grunt for better damage as soon as possible).

I've never had a problem with her AI. If you don't play aggressively and move in close, or you don't flank the enemy, she'll play the aggressor role and get shot up.

[WillieStyle]

SpideyKnight wrote...

This is a thread dedicated to making Jacob less useless, to do that you need to compare him to the benchmark(best) NPC and see what he lacks, and what he can do/what can be done to make up for that.

Jacob being worse than Miranda (which he is) would only make him "useless" if you could only bring one Squadmate on each mission.  Since you can bring two, Miranda being the best squadmate doesn't make Jacob useless.

[WillieStyle]

DirewolfX wrote...

The 15% weapon damage is actually LEAST useful for a shooter class (except maybe for Vanguard, I'll get to it in a second).  As a dev explained in another thread (http://social.biowar...ex/1171230&lf=8), all percentage buffs are added together before being applied.  Soldiers and Infiltrators are generally operating under heavy damage buffs already, so the relative effect of Miranda's passive buff is much smaller.  Both have 9% or 15% from their class skill.  Soldiers have either 100% or 140% from Adrenaline Rush.  Infiltrators have 75% from Assassin's Cloak (a good Infiltrator will never pick Enhanced Cloak).

So let's take the weakest of those: An Agent Infiltrator with Assassin's Cloak:  They get +84% passive damage from their own buffs.  Add in Miranda's 15% weapon damage bonus and we get +99% bonus damage.  So 199% of the base damage.  15%/199% => You're only getting 7.5% actually bonus damage from Miranda.

It gets even worse once you get weapon upgrades, since they add in like that also.  Heightened Adrenaline Rush on a Commando: +140% (HAR) + 15% (Commando) + 50% (5/5 upgraded weapon) + 15% (Miranda) = +220%.  15%/320% => +4.7% damage.  Whoop-de-do.

It's a little better for Vanguards since they don't get the huge bonuses of Cloak or Adrenaline Rush.  Ammo Powers might improve her passive a bit more as well.  I'm not sure if they are calculated off of base weapon damage or adjusted weapon damage.  If the former, it makes her worse.  If the latter it makes her better (especially for Vanguard).  Still, her powers are great early game, but become weak late game when you have +50% weapon damage from upgrades.

I don't understand this argument.  The more damage bonuses you have, the less of a percentage bonus Miranda's buff becomes. This is true but I don't see how it's relevant.  The absolute bonus she provides remains the same  no matter how many other bonuses you have.  Furthermore, she's competing with your other squadmates, who provide varying bonuses to their own weapon damage.  These bonuses cannot compare to the value Miranda's damage bonus provides.
She remains extremely valuable no matter how late in the game you are.

Also, I really wish people would stop succombing to rounding fallacies.
A 4.7% bonus to overall damage is signficant.  It's killing things 4.7% faster.  It's taking roughly 4.7% less damage from enemies because they die that much faster.  It's using 4.7% less ammo.  4.7% here 4.7% there and pretty soon you're talking real money.

I remember back in the bad old days when I used to play WoW.  People would claim, an extra 1% dps wasn't worthwhile.  Then we'd wipe at 1% on a boss and I'd be tempted to say something snide. I wouldn't of course cause I'm a superawesomeniceguy. But I'd be tempted.

[WillieStyle]

Given the news that biotic effects that "rag doll" enemies also provide a 100% bonus to weapon damage, we really should re-evaluate squadmates.

Jacob, and any other squadmate with Pull, becomes very valuable with this news. Pull is probably the best "rag doll" effect you can get from a squadmate (the only thing that compares is Singularity) because of its extra long duration, short cooldown, and the fact that, unlike throw, it doesn't shove enemies out of weapon range.

[D4rk50ul808]

Pull is more useful than suspending an almost dead enemy. I use it constantly on my Vanguard and it makes the game easier. Pull can incapacitate an enemy or two while I charge forward making my life a lot easier.



Jacob still sucks though. He is way too aggro once he gets his Barrier ability, sometimes he will run right into enemy fire saying something like "I'm invincible they can't touch me.". Sure he has Pull but there are much better people that also have this.

[mundus66]

DirewolfX wrote...

mundus66 wrote...

Warp and overload is always useful and if your a shooter class (Vanguard, Infiltrator or Soldier) you are gonna want to have 15% weapon damage. The only missions where i don't bring her are some loyalty missions since 1 spot is filled and there are better squad members for some of them. Like Mordin on Grunts loyalty mission for example, due to every mob having armor and incinerate > warp for armor. If you are able to bring 2 members of your choice, i almost always bring Miranda as one of them though.

The 15% weapon damage is actually LEAST useful for a shooter class (except maybe for Vanguard, I'll get to it in a second).  As a dev explained in another thread (http://social.biowar...ex/1171230&lf=8), all percentage buffs are added together before being applied.  Soldiers and Infiltrators are generally operating under heavy damage buffs already, so the relative effect of Miranda's passive buff is much smaller.  Both have 9% or 15% from their class skill.  Soldiers have either 100% or 140% from Adrenaline Rush.  Infiltrators have 75% from Assassin's Cloak (a good Infiltrator will never pick Enhanced Cloak).

So let's take the weakest of those: An Agent Infiltrator with Assassin's Cloak:  They get +84% passive damage from their own buffs.  Add in Miranda's 15% weapon damage bonus and we get +99% bonus damage.  So 199% of the base damage.  15%/199% => You're only getting 7.5% actually bonus damage from Miranda.

It gets even worse once you get weapon upgrades, since they add in like that also.  Heightened Adrenaline Rush on a Commando: +140% (HAR) + 15% (Commando) + 50% (5/5 upgraded weapon) + 15% (Miranda) = +220%.  15%/320% => +4.7% damage.  Whoop-de-do.

It's a little better for Vanguards since they don't get the huge bonuses of Cloak or Adrenaline Rush.  Ammo Powers might improve her passive a bit more as well.  I'm not sure if they are calculated off of base weapon damage or adjusted weapon damage.  If the former, it makes her worse.  If the latter it makes her better (especially for Vanguard).  Still, her powers are great early game, but become weak late game when you have +50% weapon damage from upgrades.

It still makes a difference. I was able to oneshot a harbringer when he had  50% barrier on my infiltrator with a cloaked widow shot to the head (with warp rounds) when i had Miranda in my party, on insanity. When i didn't he didn't die. I also shoot bosses like crazy with infiltrator, 15% on every shot is a lot of extra damage and saves you a lot of bullets, which are imo the biggest issue with infiltrator.

Soldier i guess its less of an issue, but who else should you bring? She got useful abilites especially if you're a soldier and boosting your damage by 15% is always more than the extra damage another squad member would do over Miranda.

Ironically i would say vanguard is probably the class that she is least useful for, of the 3 classes you mentioned everything dies in 2 shots anyway and i prefer Thane over Miranda if im up against collectors.

[TekFanX]

Mhhh...making Jacob less useless?

Improve his brain.



On his own loyalty-mission he calls his father "son of a ****".

Which makes him the "grandson of a ****" and his maybe very nice grandma a ****.



With one sentence he insults not only his father but also himself and his grandma...not that smart if you ask me.



Other thing: Well...I never really take him with me.

Jacob is a vanguard stripped off all the direct-dmg-biotics.

Only thing he might be usefull on is fighting an YMIR on close range.

With his Barriers he might stand some secs longer and with the incendary-shotgun he can strip off shields, than armor.

But for smaller enemies or the Scions...not that good in my oppinion.

[DirewolfX]

WillieStyle wrote...

DirewolfX wrote...

The 15% weapon damage is actually LEAST useful for a shooter class (except maybe for Vanguard, I'll get to it in a second).  As a dev explained in another thread (http://social.biowar...ex/1171230&lf=8), all percentage buffs are added together before being applied.  Soldiers and Infiltrators are generally operating under heavy damage buffs already, so the relative effect of Miranda's passive buff is much smaller.  Both have 9% or 15% from their class skill.  Soldiers have either 100% or 140% from Adrenaline Rush.  Infiltrators have 75% from Assassin's Cloak (a good Infiltrator will never pick Enhanced Cloak).

So let's take the weakest of those: An Agent Infiltrator with Assassin's Cloak:  They get +84% passive damage from their own buffs.  Add in Miranda's 15% weapon damage bonus and we get +99% bonus damage.  So 199% of the base damage.  15%/199% => You're only getting 7.5% actually bonus damage from Miranda.

It gets even worse once you get weapon upgrades, since they add in like that also.  Heightened Adrenaline Rush on a Commando: +140% (HAR) + 15% (Commando) + 50% (5/5 upgraded weapon) + 15% (Miranda) = +220%.  15%/320% => +4.7% damage.  Whoop-de-do.

It's a little better for Vanguards since they don't get the huge bonuses of Cloak or Adrenaline Rush.  Ammo Powers might improve her passive a bit more as well.  I'm not sure if they are calculated off of base weapon damage or adjusted weapon damage.  If the former, it makes her worse.  If the latter it makes her better (especially for Vanguard).  Still, her powers are great early game, but become weak late game when you have +50% weapon damage from upgrades.

I don't understand this argument.  The more damage bonuses you have, the less of a percentage bonus Miranda's buff becomes. This is true but I don't see how it's relevant.  The absolute bonus she provides remains the same  no matter how many other bonuses you have.  Furthermore, she's competing with your other squadmates, who provide varying bonuses to their own weapon damage.  These bonuses cannot compare to the value Miranda's damage bonus provides.
She remains extremely valuable no matter how late in the game you are.

Also, I really wish people would stop succombing to rounding fallacies.
A 4.7% bonus to overall damage is signficant.  It's killing things 4.7% faster.  It's taking roughly 4.7% less damage from enemies because they die that much faster.  It's using 4.7% less ammo.  4.7% here 4.7% there and pretty soon you're talking real money.

I remember back in the bad old days when I used to play WoW.  People would claim, an extra 1% dps wasn't worthwhile.  Then we'd wipe at 1% on a boss and I'd be tempted to say something snide. I wouldn't of course cause I'm a superawesomeniceguy. But I'd be tempted.

This is a very different game than WoW and the pros/cons of swapping out Miranda are more than just her passive class ability.

In WoW, you are talking about an extended period of DPS against a single target, where all randomness tends to get normalized to average values.  5% extra damage is huge in this situation.  In Mass Effect, the toughest fights tend to be against large numbers of dangerous enemies.  For a Widow Infiltrator, they are likely to one shot a basic enemy with a headshot no matter who is their squadmate (heck they can do it without even cloaking).  The 5% extra damage from Miranda is worthless there.

And then by taking Miranda, you are sacrificing what another character would bring.  Abilities that disable enemies or lock them down are useful.  The ammo powers that a lot of squad mates have more than make up for 40% damage that Miranda has (AP Ammo vs. armor or health, Disruptor ammo vs. shields or synthetics) even without their passive damage talents (and some of them get +50%).

Also, you're going to need to define a 'rounding fallacy.'  I've never heard of it, and neither has Google.

[tangofish]

I said a while back in another thread that Jacob was my go to guy for husks, and that holds twice as true now with the new shotgun. While he and Grunt are quite similar, I find Grunt is more of a blunt instrument best used in a "fire and forget" kind of way, Jacob requires more active control. He's certainly my sentinel's best friend, and often accompanies my engineer as well.

Modifié par tangofish, 17 février 2010 - 01:43 .