68 réponses à ce sujet

[EverteMax]

all squad mem have their uses somewhere. Jacob is more for midrange. You just place him properly in a battlefield and he can work wonders. Obviously if you are already a midrange class...like vanguard or soldier...then he's useless.

[DirewolfX]

EverteMax wrote...

all squad mem have their uses somewhere. Jacob is more for midrange. You just place him properly in a battlefield and he can work wonders. Obviously if you are already a midrange class...like vanguard or soldier...then he's useless.

Just curious... if you consider Vanguard a mid-range class... what do you consider a short range class? O.o

Jacob is a Vanguard.  He's a short range guy.

[WillieStyle]

DirewolfX wrote...

This is a very different game than WoW and the pros/cons of swapping out Miranda are more than just her passive class ability.

In WoW, you are talking about an extended period of DPS against a single target, where all randomness tends to get normalized to average values.  5% extra damage is huge in this situation.  In Mass Effect, the toughest fights tend to be against large numbers of dangerous enemies.  For a Widow Infiltrator, they are likely to one shot a basic enemy with a headshot no matter who is their squadmate (heck they can do it without even cloaking).  The 5% extra damage from Miranda is worthless there.

That doesn't match my experience. On insanity, I can't always 1-shot nonelites with headshots even with the widow. This is escpecially true if they have Shields/Barrier.  I found Miranda's +15% weapon damage extremely useful as there's nothing quite so annoying as shooting an enemy only to see them with a sliver of life left. In that case, I'm forced to either waste another widow shot, waste time swapping to some other weapon, waste a squadmates ability to kill them off.  All while they keep dpsing me and my squad.

And then by taking Miranda, you are sacrificing what another character would bring.  Abilities that disable enemies or lock them down are useful.  The ammo powers that a lot of squad mates have more than make up for 40% damage that Miranda has (AP Ammo vs. armor or health, Disruptor ammo vs. shields or synthetics) even without their passive damage talents (and some of them get +50%).

Meh. This is a false choice imo.  I always take Tungsten ammo on my Infiltrators/Soldiers.  I usually also take disruptor ammo.  But even if I needed another squadmate to provide another ammo type, I rarely need 2 squadmates to do it. So it isn't a question of ammo power or Miranda.  For me it's ammo power AND Miranda, or Ammo power AND someone else. I find Miranda is hands down the best choice.

Also, you're going to need to define a 'rounding fallacy.'  I've never heard of it, and neither has Google.

Heh. I coined the phrase myself.
It's well known in Economics/Statistics that people excessively discount unlikely events. People often treat something with a 1% probability of happening as if it will NEVER happen.
Behavioural Economists have hypothesized that this behaviour was useful back in the day before we had Baysian Statistics and Calculators.  It allowed people to make decisions quickly.  But these days, it means people do irrational things, like discount a 5% damage buff as useless [here is where I'd put an emoticon showing I was teasing if I was the sort of pathetic individual who used emoticons].

Modifié par WillieStyle, 17 février 2010 - 03:00 .

[Graunt]

WillieStyle wrote...
That doesn't match my experience. On insanity, I can't always 1-shot nonelites with headshots even with the widow. This is escpecially true if they have Shields/Barrier.  I found Miranda's +15% weapon damage extremely useful as there's nothing quite so annoying as shooting an enemy only to see them with a sliver of life left. In that case, I'm forced to either waste another widow shot, waste time swapping to some other weapon, waste a squadmates ability to kill them off.  All while they keep dpsing me and my squad.

Or you know, just bring someone that can use an assault rifle so they will by default be doing more damage than Miranda with her "godly" self weapon bonus (using the Tempest no less...) and not have to worry about it.  She's good, but she's not irreplaceable by any means, although she is the easiest to fit in just about any group.

[WillieStyle]

5% of my dps is >>>> the difference between Miranda's dps and anyone else's. Your milage may vary.

Also, why is everyone so down on heavy pistol dps? The hand cannon has roughly the same dps as the Viper sniper rifle. The one downside is its low ammo capacity but squadmates don't run out of ammo so that point is moot.

[matt654321]

Average Gatsby wrote...

I have a Contrarian Opinion here: I'm going to go so far as to say that Jacob is actually the BEST squadmate to have with you if you are playing as an assault sentinel. And if I make an assault sentinel guide, I will show you why.

Could we get some details on what that build looks like? Most importantly, does the build use a shotgun (since that's the only option that can't be undone)?

[rumination888]

Graunt wrote...

Or you know, just bring someone that can use an assault rifle so they will by default be doing more damage than Miranda with her "godly" self weapon bonus (using the Tempest no less...) and not have to worry about it.  She's good, but she's not irreplaceable by any means, although she is the easiest to fit in just about any group.

Not much difference between ARs, SMGs, and HPs when a squaddie uses them. Miranda seems to make headshots with the SMG all the time, and the limited ammo of the Carnifrex is a non-issue. SMG and HP are on par with the AR once you obtain the +50% shield/barrier/armor upgrades(ARs top out at 25%). The AR is only good in the beginning, and for other situational purposes(specifically, the Geth Pulse Rifle vs. barriers/shields).

[boogu168]

even if hes usless i support him as a crew member at least.

[Graunt]

rumination888 wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Or you know, just bring someone that can use an assault rifle so they will by default be doing more damage than Miranda with her "godly" self weapon bonus (using the Tempest no less...) and not have to worry about it.  She's good, but she's not irreplaceable by any means, although she is the easiest to fit in just about any group.

Not much difference between ARs, SMGs, and HPs when a squaddie uses them. Miranda seems to make headshots with the SMG all the time, and the limited ammo of the Carnifrex is a non-issue. SMG and HP are on par with the AR once you obtain the +50% shield/barrier/armor upgrades(ARs top out at 25%). The AR is only good in the beginning, and for other situational purposes(specifically, the Geth Pulse Rifle vs. barriers/shields).

I can't see how an SMG + 50% can beat a Vindicator +25% for armored enemies, and for Barrier/Shielded enemies a Tempest is good, but so is a Geth Pulse.  On top of that it's not like you want your squad just standing straight up firing the entire time and the Vindicator's burst seems to be superior in just about all situations that require a lot of crouching, especially with the unlimited ammo.  Carnifex just never does much at all with my squad unless the only enemies left have armor and even then there are better options.  I also asked on another thread if your squad can even do headshots, are you sure they can?  I've never just sat around watching to see how long it takes them to kill something, so I have no idea.  If they *can* do headshots then that just makes Thane/Legion all that much better.

Modifié par Graunt, 17 février 2010 - 04:12 .

[mundus66]

Graunt wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Or you know, just bring someone that can use an assault rifle so they will by default be doing more damage than Miranda with her "godly" self weapon bonus (using the Tempest no less...) and not have to worry about it.  She's good, but she's not irreplaceable by any means, although she is the easiest to fit in just about any group.

Not much difference between ARs, SMGs, and HPs when a squaddie uses them. Miranda seems to make headshots with the SMG all the time, and the limited ammo of the Carnifrex is a non-issue. SMG and HP are on par with the AR once you obtain the +50% shield/barrier/armor upgrades(ARs top out at 25%). The AR is only good in the beginning, and for other situational purposes(specifically, the Geth Pulse Rifle vs. barriers/shields).

I can't see how an SMG + 50% can beat a Vindicator +25% for armored enemies, and for Barrier/Shielded enemies a Tempest is good, but so is a Geth Pulse.  On top of that it's not like you want your squad just standing straight up firing the entire time and the Vindicator's burst seems to be superior in just about all situations that require a lot of crouching, especially with the unlimited ammo.  Carnifex just never does much at all with my squad unless the only enemies left have armor and even then there are better options.  I also asked on another thread if your squad can even do headshots, are you sure they can?  I've never just sat around watching to see how long it takes them to kill something, so I have no idea.  If they *can* do headshots then that just makes Thane/Legion all that much better.

Well considering Garrus shouts "headshot" im pretty sure they can. And for squad mates, vindicator is always the best imo. It has highest DPS and best accuracy, the only problem with that rifle is the ammo, which isn't an issue for you squad anyway.

[Atmosfear3]

Squadmates can indeed score headshots, especially the snipers. How often they do it is another matter.

[Arde5643]

Enemies stunned by singularities and cyro blasts usually net headshots fairly quickly.

[DirewolfX]

Arde5643 wrote...

Enemies stunned by singularities and cyro blasts usually net headshots fairly quickly.

They take double damage regardless.

[rumination888]

Graunt wrote...

I can't see how an SMG + 50% can beat a Vindicator +25% for armored enemies, and for Barrier/Shielded enemies a Tempest is good, but so is a Geth Pulse.  On top of that it's not like you want your squad just standing straight up firing the entire time and the Vindicator's burst seems to be superior in just about all situations that require a lot of crouching, especially with the unlimited ammo.  Carnifex just never does much at all with my squad unless the only enemies left have armor and even then there are better options.  I also asked on another thread if your squad can even do headshots, are you sure they can?  I've never just sat around watching to see how long it takes them to kill something, so I have no idea.  If they *can* do headshots then that just makes Thane/Legion all that much better.

An SMG +50% isn't going to beat a Vindicator on armored enemies. The +50% bonus from an SMG doesn't even affect armor at all so I don't know why you would even mention that. Miranda has access to the Carnifex which is on par with the Vindicator against armored enemies.

And yes they can headshot. The vast majority of their conncted shots are headshots. I don't know if each squaddie has their own rate of headshots, but I do know Miranda and Garrus seem to make nothing but headshots.

[thisisme8]

rumination888 wrote...

Graunt wrote...

I can't see how an SMG + 50% can beat a Vindicator +25% for armored enemies, and for Barrier/Shielded enemies a Tempest is good, but so is a Geth Pulse.  On top of that it's not like you want your squad just standing straight up firing the entire time and the Vindicator's burst seems to be superior in just about all situations that require a lot of crouching, especially with the unlimited ammo.  Carnifex just never does much at all with my squad unless the only enemies left have armor and even then there are better options.  I also asked on another thread if your squad can even do headshots, are you sure they can?  I've never just sat around watching to see how long it takes them to kill something, so I have no idea.  If they *can* do headshots then that just makes Thane/Legion all that much better.

An SMG +50% isn't going to beat a Vindicator on armored enemies. The +50% bonus from an SMG doesn't even affect armor at all so I don't know why you would even mention that. Miranda has access to the Carnifex which is on par with the Vindicator against armored enemies.

And yes they can headshot. The vast majority of their conncted shots are headshots. I don't know if each squaddie has their own rate of headshots, but I do know Miranda and Garrus seem to make nothing but headshots.

I kind of want to stay out of this argument, but I just wanted to say that I have noticed what I thought were headshots from Zaeed, Thane, and Garrus.  Glad to see someone else did, confirms that I'm not "seeing things."  Cool beans.

[Blue_dodo]

unlike the first game sqaud members are best use in certain roles, in jacobs case he is best suited against armored opponents,with other team members who use biotics and husks (barrier is nice against those damn things)



no squady is really useless, it just depends on the situation and what class you are playing

[DragoonKain3]

Jacob is good early to mid game because he gets access to squad ammo the earliest. His Pull, even at 1 point, is good enough to set Warp Explosion combo. So for Adept/Sentinel, he is a good choice for majority of the game, assuming you're going up against organics. He actually saw a lot of play with me, until I got Grunt's squad incendiary ammo at lvl 19 (hp regen takes priority so I maxed his class skill first).



So yeah, while Jacob may not be the 'best' end-game, fact is that I was using him from lvl 5 to lvl 19 means that I actually used him the most out of all, barring Grunt who is my main man who takes point.



Not everyone has to be godly end-game, you know. It would suck if everyone started like Miranda who isn't really that good until lvl 15, or they suck until you unlock their loyalty power like Jack, after all.

[Arde5643]

thisisme8 wrote...
I kind of want to stay out of this argument, but I just wanted to say that I have noticed what I thought were headshots from Zaeed, Thane, and Garrus.  Glad to see someone else did, confirms that I'm not "seeing things."  Cool beans.

Adepts and snipers are actually one of the best early to mid level team combos.

Everytime I use singularity it seems I always hear the snipers (Garrus/Zaaed/Thane) doing headshots like nobody's business.

Helps that it kills enemies faster, but boring because I rarely have to ever use my guns to kill someone - mostly just to strip shields/barriers.

[Ahalazar]

Jacob's great. Cool pers., great skills, powerful in a fight.

A way too tight outfit though. Cerberus standard I would say.