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[ReDSH1FT]

 In this review, Motomu Toriyama (director for FF13) attempts to blame his baby's low western review scores as our fault for "looking at Final Fantasy XIII from a Western point of view."

He also goes on to say, "When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like..." Then he has the audacity to say this, that it "becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom."

LOL, looks like someone can't take a little competition from our boys at BioWare.  Bethesda is a huge player in WRPGs as well, and their games rock.  I think the release of ME2 is making their palms sweaty as they're getting shown up big by our poor-story-too-open RPGs.

This is so unprofessional for a director, it's like saying, "NO, NO, MY GAME'S NOT BAD, YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT IT WRONG."  Oh sorry, are we supposed to hire a crew of Japanese people to play your games and write the reviews for them?  Get off the high horse, we're western players, we have a western point of view, and we our WRPGs, Mass Effect especially.


http://kotaku.com/54...western-reviews

[Haasth]

Wow. What a loser.

[ReDSH1FT]

Yeah, this is awesome, I frickin love BioWare and Bethesda. It makes me so happy to see such a tired genre (JRPG) getting stomped by fresh points of view (WRPG). They need to step up their game or be left in our open-world's dust.

[Varenus Luckmann]

I love how OP implies that Bethesda has made an RPG since Morrowind.

[Bryy_Miller]

It's not that their style is any level invalid, it's that they refuse to compromise to a Western audience. Oh, and that the game is just plain bad. And people have FF fatigue.

[Ryzaki]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

It's not that their style is any level invalid, it's that they refuse to compromise to a Western audience. Oh, and that the game is just plain bad. And people have FF fatigue.

This pretty much. And NO I don't want them catering to western audiences. They need to do their own thing but...better. Less cliched storylines. (Keep the girly guys though. I'm sick of the overly buff men in western rpgs ugh.)

But then again in Japan they do have a huge Visual Novel market.

I do love the art direction though. Keep their art direction, graphics and try to make a non linear rpg that's fun to follow with some wildy differing endings and they'll be in business. (Battle system could use some tweaks [like real time would be fun] otherwise they're fine).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 février 2010 - 12:57 .

[MassEffect762]

I have no doubt they could very well adapt and overcome, only time will tell.

[Axeface]

Oh how i loathe every asian mmo/rpg. Utterly loathe.



Thanks for posting ;p

[Grand_Commander13]

We've made significant inroads against the weeaboos in all theatres; the war goes well.

[llinsane1ll]

Lmfao what a freaking cry baby! Even Japan gave it low rating for FFXlll

[FlashedMyDrive]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I love how OP implies that Bethesda has made an RPG since Morrowind.

Fallout 3 and Oblivion are considered RPGs.

[llinsane1ll]

Just as the guy says we look at FFXlll as a WRPG game, they look at Mass Effect 2 as a JRPG... what a FAIL

[Bryy_Miller]

Ryzaki wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

It's not that their style is any level invalid, it's that they refuse to compromise to a Western audience. Oh, and that the game is just plain bad. And people have FF fatigue.

This pretty much. And NO I don't want them catering to western audiences. They need to do their own thing but...better. Less cliched storylines. (Keep the girly guys though. I'm sick of the overly buff men in western rpgs ugh.)

But then again in Japan they do have a huge Visual Novel market.

I do love the art direction though. Keep their art direction, graphics and try to make a non linear rpg that's fun to follow with some wildy differing endings and they'll be in business. (Battle system could use some tweaks [like real time would be fun] otherwise they're fine).

In a way, I understand what the guy was saying. He just shouldn't of said it.

[FlashedMyDrive]

I don't like most Japanese games in general. They are either have terrible story or terrible gameplay.

[ReDSH1FT]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I love how OP implies that Bethesda has made an RPG since Morrowind.

Typical ignorant comment regarding RPGs.  I bet you complain that ME2 isn't an RPG too.

Role
Playing
Game

Do you role play in Oblivion and Fallout 3?  Yes, yes you do.  A lot.



Anyway, FF is just getting more and more niche.  I played the required ones, 3, 7, 10, and then I played 12.  Gross.  The main male characters become more and more metro, and the stories leave me feeling like I'm tripping on E.  I understand the threat of sentient machines, but I have no IDEA wtf happened at the end of 12.  I fought some bosses in a tornado made by a  zeppelin or something.

Don't get me wrong, I think Japan has a lot to offer with their culture and ways, but I think that their games are becoming tedious.  We're now SPOILED with ME, DA:O, Oblivion, and Fallout.  We're holding them to a higher standard and they need to step up to the plate.  I think it'd be cool to play a BioWare-esque FF game.  With you know, actual role playing.

[ReDSH1FT]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

We've made significant inroads against the weeaboos in all theatres; the war goes well.

LOL.  This^

[javierabegazo]

Oh fantastic, another "What is an RPG" person.... To that, I pit David Gaider's Comment from yesterday

 

Modifié par javierabegazo, 17 février 2010 - 01:05 .

[Kusy]

Since FFXII the franchise is still standing in the same place...

[FlashedMyDrive]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I love how OP implies that Bethesda has made an RPG since Morrowind.

Typical ignorant comment regarding RPGs.  I bet you complain that ME2 isn't an RPG too.

Role
Playing
Game

Do you role play in Oblivion and Fallout 3?  Yes, yes you do.  A lot.

Shhh, people like pretending that 'RPG' implies more than it actually does. >.>

[Chrono Mizaki]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

It's not that their style is any level invalid, it's that they refuse to compromise to a Western audience. Oh, and that the game is just plain bad. And people have FF fatigue.

Not every game has to cater to a 'western audience' or my definition: 'the American Audience'.

Besides, I would go about and argue about WRPGs vs. JRPGs, as I love both and personally feel that JRPG gets the flak, but I'll just copy and paste this comment from Kotaku.

What confuses me about this is how the same people
bashing JRPGs for having the same basic plot for 20 years are (mostly)
the same people praising Bioware games for having "more original,
compelling stories". Seriously? Someone is threatening to
conquer/destroy the world/universe and you have to gather a group of
people and kick his ass. Yep, never seen that in a JRPG before...



In a way, I agree with him about how hard it is to tell a compelling
story when the player has too much freedom. It's not impossible to do,
Dragon Age and Mass Effect are great examples of that, but what gets
lost is the creator's vision. On a JRPG you can't choose how your
character behaves because the creators want to show you their main
character. They want you to meet and understand this person so that
even though you're not part of the story, you still care about him and
what happens to him.

WRPGs take a different approach by letting you make your own main
character, but seriously, how many of you thought your Shepard was an
interesting character? There was nothing new to learn about him and
nothing surprising about his actions because you were in control all
the time, you knew everything. On the other hand, this freedom allows
for a much more effective and personal interaction with the other
characters, something that's lacking on JRPGs.



I don't consider either of them a "superior genre" but is it really that hard to find someone that loves both of them?



tl;dr WRPGs & JRPGs, why can't they all just get along? ='(

And if JRPGs are getting stale, then so are WRPGs. I have to trot through WRPGs to find the ones I like. Sure, I have to make more effort with JRPGs to find some good ones, but to say JRPGs are becoming stale and boring is quite an overused statement that's popular with the media.

Heck, I remember when Bioware said 'JRPGs are Stale' and some of their 'revolutionary elements; for Mass Effect were from JRPGs in the 90s, as one member pointed out on another forum.

Dear Bioware:



You know that dialogue system in Mass Effect, that works on flowing
dialogue by letting you input while the person is talking to you and
giving you hints of what you'll say? The one you hyped up so much as
the next big advancement? That was done in a Japanese RPG called Sakura
Taisen in 1996, it was the called LIPS system. What's that I see,
you're bragging that your romances might carry over into the next game.
That was an early 90s Japanese RPG innovation.



Next time either try harder to innovate or actually know a little bit about the subject you're talking about.

I like to say, but I rest my case for now. Oh and...



This is probably the best JRPG I've played imo and this was back in 2008 - 2009.

[SpideyKnight]

I like how you guys harsh on the man, like he isn't telling the truth. Well at least about the story aspect, I'm not going to comment on the subtle proclaimation that we maybe too dense to understand the beauty of linearity. Morrowind/Oblivion? Story? Where? There isn't one, Bio, and a very select handful of other Western RPG games are the only ones capable of crafting good stories. Most of those aren't really narrative driven, but character driven, Mass Effect 2 being s prime example. Am I harshing? Not at all, I prefer character driven stories actually, as I believe them to be a more personal and far less obtuse and overdone affair. That doesn't make what he says all that incorrect. Leading the player by the hand, like a good book, is an easier way to tell a compelling story. Dropping them into a world and telling them to run amok has it's share of cons, and let's not kid ourselves and say that ME2's 4 story missions are somehow the essence of a deep and involving narrative.

[Kusy]

javierabegazo wrote...

Oh fantastic, another "What is an RPG" person.... To that, I pit David Gaider's Comment from yesterday

 

And this is so true that it couldn't be more.

[Springchicken]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I love how OP implies that Bethesda has made an RPG since Morrowind.

Typical ignorant comment regarding RPGs.  I bet you complain that ME2 isn't an RPG too.

Role
Playing
Game

Do you role play in Oblivion and Fallout 3?  Yes, yes you do.  A lot.

I took it to mean he doesn't see positive progress in Bethesda's games since Morrowind, not judging them as inherently un-RPG. If he didn't though, then boo to him.

Nothing wrong with JRPGs as a genre, they have just the same number of pitfalls as anything else. It's much easier to see inherent archetypes from a culturally external perspective. Whether FFXIII merits the hype I'll reserve an opinion about until I play it.