284 réponses à ce sujet

[Chrono Mizaki]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...


You guys are nuts. Just so you know, everything "revolutionary" that a WRPG has done, a JRPG did first. Type in a feature in google search and find out where it was first implemented. See how many you can find that weren't first done in JRPGs.

Keep in mind there's a fantastic difference between "doing something first" and "doing something well"

And btw Chrono, I think I know a bit about European Countries, more than you even.  I'm from Europe, I lived there most of my life, in Italy.  I now live in the states, and I can say that it's more diverse here.  

I live in Britain and frankly, it's no different to America, save being famed for 'hub of Al-Qaeda'. But what they have all in common is that they all have multiculturalism. Sure, America may promote it more, but multiculturalism is still that. And America isn't unique for 'having' that.

Please don't make assumptions like that, you look like a fool

And I implore you to do the same. You assume I was a 'weeaboo' and frankly, that make you the fool as well.

.
 BTW, I took Japanese in college to up my stock for internships, but I
was appalled by the amount of weeaboos taking the class just to watch
their animu without subtitles.

I enjoy Japan because I love the culture and the cities. I took up Japanese Language because I appreciate Japan. Does it make me a 'weeaboo'? No, because I'm not oblivious to its flaws.

Some of us enjoy Japanese culture, but you folks make us look bad by association.

Don't group me with 'weeaboos'.

[Zavox]

*snip*

Those Japanese don't have the true Japanese spirit, like he does.  They are too Westernized.

Hey don't give him ideas

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I love how OP implies that Bethesda has made an RPG since Morrowind.

fallout 3

[the_one_54321]

ReDSH1FT wrote...
You say Square has 20 hits?
Can you list their "hits?"
Go ahead, I'll wait

FF 1-12. (none of them did poorly)
Kingdom Hearts 1&2
Star Ocean 1-7

That's already over 20, and I didn't get all of the Final Fantasy's or any of the re-releases.

[javierabegazo]

Btw guys, what's "weaboo" referring to?

[Darth_Trethon]

javierabegazo wrote...

Oh fantastic, another "What is an RPG" person.... To that, I pit David Gaider's Comment from yesterday

 

That's great insight BUT I would go as far as saying that if you as the player have no control over the story and the moral choices of the game then you are not playing an RPG. Take Diablo and Halo for example....nearly everyone accepts that the first is an RPG and the second a shooter but why isn't halo called an RPG as well? Because you have no control over the direction of the story. In diablo you select one of several classes and play through a strictly linear story where you have no decission or say in what happens next but you have a million pairs of boots and underwear. So what? I am not playing any role except maybe that of a shopper or stylist but that's not what the story is about....within the world of Diablo I am merely a spectator just like the players of Halo are in the Halo universe. Now ME2 is both an RPG AND a Shooter but a lot of RPG players have a hard time letting go of the tedious inventory system that needed babysitting even though that inventory system is not the essential part of the role playing experience.....ie the experience where you are in the shoes of the protagonist and deciding what course of action to take. Role playing is just THAT.....playing.....a......role.

Now we have a lot more customization options at our fingertips to actually make our protagonist look like us to a certain degree and have him/her wear armor that looks like we think it should but that's not the important element because you only assume the role of the chararracter when you start deciding in what direction to take the story and THAT is when you begin to actually play that role. Without that you are nothing but a back stage stylist and JRPGs don't even allow much of that(facial customization, clothing etc.)....what JRPGs do is put you in the shoes of a small team combat leader with a ton of skills and abilities to choose from....why not call it a Strategy game? That's essentially what they are.....people are too attached to what used to be(quite incorrectly) called an RPG back when the technology and knowledge for creating a true role playing experience didn't exists.

[Chrono Mizaki]

javierabegazo wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Also, FFXIII hasn't even released outside of Japan yet.

Your point is null, ME2's sales figures in Japan alone are far higher than that of FFXIII's. Even on it's home turf, with all the massive press about FFXIII, ME2 still had larger sales.

You tend to forget, but FFXIII's sales in Japan were extordinary. That's because any game in Japan struggles to achieve a little over 500,000 in a 'short amount of time'. In the West, it's normal if a game acheieved that much in a week.

[rabbitchannel]

I will not take sides here. Mainly because I've never played any of the FF series. I will concede that JRPGs know how to make their characters look good. Costumes, hair, etc.

[Ryzaki]

javierabegazo wrote...

Btw guys, what's "weaboo" referring to?

Its an insult about a non japanese person being obsessed with japanese culture.

Honestly I never understood it if someone finds something to obsess over let them. Its none of anyone else's business.


Also: LOL I hope you guys (not the person I'm quoting) realize static character designs and alternate character outfits are a staple of JRPGs. (A bad one frankly I find it amusing that BioWare decides of all the things to take from Jrpgs to include that as well). I hate it when I place armor on someone and they don't wear it. Especially when you have Ms. Fanservice in her skimpy armor. Then I get pissed off and stop using said character because I can't take the idiocy anymore.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 février 2010 - 01:56 .

[Chrono Mizaki]

javierabegazo wrote...

Btw guys, what's "weaboo" referring to?

If it's a person, then it's me. If it's a definition: Someone who's likely to kamikaze themselves in the name of Japan.

Modifié par Chrono Mizaki, 17 février 2010 - 01:53 .

[ReDSH1FT]

javierabegazo wrote...

Btw guys, what's "weaboo" referring to?

Weeaboo is a derogatory term for Japanophiles.  Those kids that run around with Naruto headbands, the kids at school that sat in a circle reading manga and discussing which final fantasy was the true representative of the series.  The ones that hate American culture but put Japanese culture above all.  They are also attracted like a hyena to a carcass to ANYYYYYYY asian girl in the vicinity, regardless of how good she looks.

[Your Synthetic Superior]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

 In this review, Motomu Toriyama (director for FF13) attempts to blame his baby's low western review scores as our fault for "looking at Final Fantasy XIII from a Western point of view."

He also goes on to say, "When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like..." Then he has the audacity to say this, that it "becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom."

LOL, looks like someone can't take a little competition from our boys at BioWare.  Bethesda is a huge player in WRPGs as well, and their games rock.  I think the release of ME2 is making their palms sweaty as they're getting shown up big by our poor-story-too-open RPGs.

This is so unprofessional for a director, it's like saying, "NO, NO, MY GAME'S NOT BAD, YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT IT WRONG."  Oh sorry, are we supposed to hire a crew of Japanese people to play your games and write the reviews for them?  Get off the high horse, we're western players, we have a western point of view, and we our WRPGs, Mass Effect especially.


http://kotaku.com/54...western-reviews

I also heard that the latest Final Fantasy would be the last of it's kind. That they would be "modernizing" the genre. I expect the new final fantasies to be like Mass Effect or Fallout, but with swords and magic. Maybe they'll dump the effeminate male leads too.  If I lived in a country where the women preferred men who looked like girls I'd definitely do some introspective analysis of my manlihood... or lack thereof.

Modifié par Your Synthetic Superior, 17 février 2010 - 01:54 .

[Garuda One]

javierabegazo wrote...

Btw guys, what's "weaboo" referring to?

[Zavox]

the_one_54321 wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...
You say Square has 20 hits?
Can you list their "hits?"
Go ahead, I'll wait

FF 1-12. (none of them did poorly)
Kingdom Hearts 1&2
Star Ocean 1-7

That's already over 20, and I didn't get all of the Final Fantasy's or any of the re-releases.

Got to love you saying copy-paste is bad just a while ago, and now showing us FF1-12 as 12 hits... just lovely. Especially the part where you go on about re-releases. Do they actually have as much original IP hits as Bioware?

[Chrono Mizaki]

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...

 In this review, Motomu Toriyama (director for FF13) attempts to blame his baby's low western review scores as our fault for "looking at Final Fantasy XIII from a Western point of view."

He also goes on to say, "When you look at most Western RPGs, they just dump you in a big open world, and let you do whatever you like..." Then he has the audacity to say this, that it "becomes very difficult to tell a compelling story when you're given that much freedom."

LOL, looks like someone can't take a little competition from our boys at BioWare.  Bethesda is a huge player in WRPGs as well, and their games rock.  I think the release of ME2 is making their palms sweaty as they're getting shown up big by our poor-story-too-open RPGs.

This is so unprofessional for a director, it's like saying, "NO, NO, MY GAME'S NOT BAD, YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT IT WRONG."  Oh sorry, are we supposed to hire a crew of Japanese people to play your games and write the reviews for them?  Get off the high horse, we're western players, we have a western point of view, and we our WRPGs, Mass Effect especially.


http://kotaku.com/54...western-reviews

I also heard that the latest Final Fantasy would be the last of it's kind. That they would be "modernizing" the genre. I expect the new final fantasies to be like Mass Effect or Fallout, but with swords and magic. Maybe they'll dump the effeminate male leads too.  If I lived in a country where the women preferred men who looked like girls I'd definitely do some introspective analysis of man manlihood... or lack thereof.

Actually: http://www.eurogamer...by-wada-comment

It's likely the budget and team size.

[casedawgz]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Oh fantastic, another "What is an RPG" person.... To that, I pit David Gaider's Comment from yesterday

 

That's great insight BUT I would go as far as saying that if you as the player have no control over the story and the moral choices of the game then you are not playing an RPG. Take Diablo and Halo for example....nearly everyone accepts that the first is an RPG and the second a shooter but why isn't halo called an RPG as well? Because you have no control over the direction of the story. In diablo you select one of several classes and play through a strictly linear story where you have no decission or say in what happens next but you have a million pairs of boots and underwear. So what? I am not playing any role except maybe that of a shopper or stylist but that's not what the story is about....within the world of Diablo I am merely a spectator just like the players of Halo are in the Halo universe. Now ME2 is both an RPG AND a Shooter but a lot of RPG players have a hard time letting go of the tedious inventory system that needed babysitting even though that inventory system is not the essential part of the role playing experience.....ie the experience where you are in the shoes of the protagonist and deciding what course of action to take. Role playing is just THAT.....playing.....a......role.

Now we have a lot more customization options at our fingertips to actually make our protagonist look like us to a certain degree and have him/her wear armor that looks like we think it should but that's not the important element because you only assume the role of the chararracter when you start deciding in what direction to take the story and THAT is when you begin to actually play that role. Without that you are nothing but a back stage stylist and JRPGs don't even allow much of that(facial customization, clothing etc.)....what JRPGs do is put you in the shoes of a small team combat leader with a ton of skills and abilities to choose from....why not call it a Strategy game? That's essentially what they are.....people are too attached to what used to be(quite incorrectly) called an RPG back when the technology and knowledge for creating a true role playing experience didn't exists.

To me, Diablo isn't an RPG either. All those games...Diablo, Champions of Norrath, the Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance games; I just refer to them as dungeon crawlers. More a brawler than anything else.

[the_one_54321]

Zavox wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...
You say Square has 20 hits?
Can you list their "hits?"
Go ahead, I'll wait

FF 1-12. (none of them did poorly)
Kingdom Hearts 1&2
Star Ocean 1-7
That's already over 20, and I didn't get all of the Final Fantasy's or any of the re-releases.

Got to love you saying copy-paste is bad just a while ago, and now showing us FF1-12 as 12 hits... just lovely. Especially the part where you go on about re-releases. Do they actually have as much original IP hits as Bioware?

I don't think I said anything about copy paste.
Also, each FF, (and that's 13 so far) is a brand new IP. When they've made a game in the same IP they don't give it a new number. Hence FFX-2, FFXIII: Versus, FFXII: Revenant Wings.

So as to how many original IPs Square has? Minimum of 13.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 17 février 2010 - 01:58 .

[javierabegazo]

Darth_Trethon wrote...



That's great insight BUT I would go as far as saying that if you as the player have no control over the story and the moral choices of the game then you are not playing an RPG. Take Diablo and Halo for example....nearly everyone accepts that the first is an RPG and the second a shooter but why isn't halo called an RPG as well? Because you have no control over the direction of the story. In diablo you select one of several classes and play through a strictly linear story where you have no decission or say in what happens next but you have a million pairs of boots and underwear. So what? I am not playing any role except maybe that of a shopper or stylist but that's not what the story is about....within the world of Diablo I am merely a spectator just like the players of Halo are in the Halo universe. Now ME2 is both an RPG AND a Shooter but a lot of RPG players have a hard time letting go of the tedious inventory system that needed babysitting even though that inventory system is not the essential part of the role playing experience.....ie the experience where you are in the shoes of the protagonist and deciding what course of action to take. Role playing is just THAT.....playing.....a......role.

Now we have a lot more customization options at our fingertips to actually make our protagonist look like us to a certain degree and have him/her wear armor that looks like we think it should but that's not the important element because you only assume the role of the chararracter when you start deciding in what direction to take the story and THAT is when you begin to actually play that role. Without that you are nothing but a back stage stylist and JRPGs don't even allow much of that(facial customization, clothing etc.)....what JRPGs do is put you in the shoes of a small team combat leader with a ton of skills and abilities to choose from....why not call it a Strategy game? That's essentially what they are.....people are too attached to what used to be(quite incorrectly) called an RPG back when the technology and knowledge for creating a true role playing experience didn't exists.

Great post and I just wanted to say, I agree very much so

[ReDSH1FT]

Chrono Mizaki wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Btw guys, what's "weaboo" referring to?

If it's a person, then it's me. If it's a definition: Someone who's likely to kamikaze themselves in the name of Japan.

OK, lemme get this straight

First you say

Congratulations, you've come to a satisfactory conclusion, I am indeed a weeaboo.  Sugoii

Followed by 

You assume I was a 'weeaboo' , and frankly that make you the fool as well

Then come full circle with, in response to "what is a weeaboo"

If it's a person, then it's me.



I was right about you from the start, now who's the fool.

[javierabegazo]

But as per my job, I should say



"Please tone down the name calling"

[Chrono Mizaki]

Zavox wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...
You say Square has 20 hits?
Can you list their "hits?"
Go ahead, I'll wait

FF 1-12. (none of them did poorly)
Kingdom Hearts 1&2
Star Ocean 1-7

That's already over 20, and I didn't get all of the Final Fantasy's or any of the re-releases.

Got to love you saying copy-paste is bad just a while ago, and now showing us FF1-12 as 12 hits... just lovely. Especially the part where you go on about re-releases. Do they actually have as much original IP hits as Bioware?

If you want Original IP, then I'll list them

Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
Xenosaga
Kingdom Hearts
Star Ocean
Chrono Series
Musharhi [SP?] [Might check that one for spellings]
Parasite Eve [More like a borrowed IP, since it's based on the books]
The Worlds Ends With You
Sigma Harmonics [japan Only]
Mana Series

Quite a lot of original IPs. And there's more. The problem however? They are largely ignored in favour of the big three [Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts]

[the_one_54321]

javierabegazo wrote...
playing.....a......role[i].

What exactly do you think playing a role is? What was it when role playing games were first invented?

It was replacing all of the players abilities with the abilities of the character. Otherwise Gygax and Arneson would have just made wooden swords and chased each other around their yard while play acting.

[ReDSH1FT]

the_one_54321 wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...
You say Square has 20 hits?
Can you list their "hits?"
Go ahead, I'll wait

FF 1-12. (none of them did poorly)
Kingdom Hearts 1&2
Star Ocean 1-7

That's already over 20, and I didn't get all of the Final Fantasy's or any of the re-releases.

HAH

HAHAHHAH

HAHA

You're putting Final Fantasy 1-12 as hits, EVERY ONE OF THEM?

And Star Ocean 1-7???

What rubric are you using?

LOL.

I doubt that Star Ocean 1-7's sales combined will be more than ME2.

I gotta love you man, you're absolutely weeaboo.  A true Japanophile

[ReDSH1FT]

OK anyway, my original point stands, Japan needs to up its game to compare with BioWare.

[Dhraconus]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Dhraconus wrote...
In short JRPGs, FF games in particular are getting worse (interactive movie), and WRPGs are getting better (more choices, more interaction, less requirements).  Or put another way WRPGs are following the trend of "More game, more story, more choice" JRPGs seem to be going towards "less game, more story, less choice"

You know, there are lots of people who like both types for their differences. Different doesn't automatically mean bad. And something not fitting your preference is not the same as it being bad quality.

Sorry, you are right.  I shouldn't have used such definite language.  I'm just frustrated with FF games because I've been playing since FF1, same year it came out.  The series has changed from games I enjoy playing to games my ex-gf enjoys watching.  Note, she doesn't play games and would never buy them herself but she loves watching the new FF games, unfortunately it seems that most long-time fans of the series I know have been getting more disappointed since FFX.

My conclusion of games getting better or worse was based on personal opinion and those of everyone I know, who actually plays games.