108 réponses à ce sujet

[Crimson Fluf]

I hope, and this is remote. That some race lied to you just so it bites you in the arse later. I think that would add to the game. All we know about the geth is through legion, same with the rachni. I hope it doesn't turn out to be that the only person who lies in the mass effect universe is a renegade shep :-/

[Empiro]

Crimson Fluf wrote...

I hope, and this is remote. That some race lied to you just so it bites you in the arse later. I think that would add to the game. All we know about the geth is through legion, same with the rachni. I hope it doesn't turn out to be that the only person who lies in the mass effect universe is a renegade shep :-/

I hope so too.

If you let the queen go in ME1, already in ME2 she's creeping me out and making me doubt whether it was a good choice or not. Definitely in the case of Elnora in Samara's recruitment mission, she is lying just to save her own skin, and my paragon Shepard regretted letting her go (didn't reload though, figured that it was just desserts for my character).

[Lmaoboat]

I don't trust Joker. I think he's been a terrorist sleeper agent all along, and is going to fly the Normandy into the Presidium. There's nothing in game that suggest he wasn't secretly brainwashed by terrorists to kill us all.

[dreman9999]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

There are three people in this thread so far who never played Mass Effect 1.

There's one person here who Never talked to Legion.

[dreman9999]

Empiro wrote...

Not all Geth in ME 1 were heretics. In the Geth incursion missions, you also fought them, and they were specifically not a part of Saren's group, which is why their data was important to Tali. Those Geth were outside of the Veil, and also quite hostile.
I'm not sure why everyone trusts what Legion says either. He could easily be lying. Just because someone is cool doesn't mean they can't also be liars either.

Those were Saran's Geth, too.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

c) What simulations? If you're talking about the stuff about the seeker swarms, then clearly he wasn't lying or you'd be dead on Horizon.

I'm talking about the simulations on the results of what would happen that was used to justify the genophage.

The fact that Tali never says anything during the mission to suggest otherwise, and the fact that she accepted your data (and never says anything in ME2 about it being bad) implies they were normal Geth.

Wait what? Her not saying anything doesn't suggest a single thing. What are you Bill O'Reily?

Given no evidence to the contrary, it's more than reasonable to suspect that they weren't heretics.

I don't think you can take the absence of any evidence for or against as evidence of anything.

Right now, there's no hard evidence in-game about the true motivations and nature of the Geth other than what we get from Legion. For all we know, they could be building a superweapon that will wipe out all organic life.

For all you know Legion could be telling the truth though, you're going to have to find something stronger to support your claims that Legion is lying, as of now you're only stating that he could.

[AngryFrozenWater]

The geth aren't even a threat to the quarians. After they drove the quarians into exile, the geth isolated themselves from the rest of the galaxy in the systems beyond the Perseus Veil. They stay there for about two to three centures. In that time they never attacked anyone, including the quarians. After that the only geth which were violent were the heretics.

I think there is no need to be worried about the non-heretic geth. They are just defending themselves and I don't think they want war.

Edit: The geth could have finished the quarians off after the war, but they never did.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 17 février 2010 - 05:06 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Empiro wrote...

Not all Geth in ME 1 were heretics. In the Geth incursion missions, you also fought them, and they were specifically not a part of Saren's group, which is why their data was important to Tali. Those Geth were outside of the Veil, and also quite hostile.
I'm not sure why everyone trusts what Legion says either. He could easily be lying. Just because someone is cool doesn't mean they can't also be liars either.

You are totally wrong.

Firstly, in ME1 the Geth in Armstrong Nebula are heretics. It is openly stated if you acquire this mission by hacking the geth terminal on Virmire, located in the same room you fight a krogan "doctor" an asari and several husks, that it was Saren who ordered the geth (that is his heretic followers) to establish outpost there.

Secondly, if Legion were hostile it would kill Shepard aboard the old Reaper. And the idea of deceipt is imperceptable for the networked collective contiousness. Legion is quite astonished even to find that the heretics are spying on them. Intelligent as they are, the geth are still machine race and probably can't "lie" at all. Like when being pushed on the question, why would it use a piece of Shepard's armor for repairs, it can't produce a false statement, it just denies to reply.

[Ajspeed]

But i think the main problem now for the geth race is that there too suspect for the whole attack on the citadel thing i mean look at Legion he was shot when he went to Eden Prime cause he was looking for Shepard, if the geth are going to change peoples perception of them i think legion might play a big part in that and he may even be able to come too a none violent resoultion with t quarians and allow them to retake the homeworld

[R-F]

on insanity they are a threat to me:wizard:

after talking to Legion a lot i believe that the Quarians need to try something else, or maybe go find another home planet. it's their own fault for experimenting with AI, that never, ever works.

[Gill Kaiser]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Empiro wrote...

Not all Geth in ME 1 were heretics. In the Geth incursion missions, you also fought them, and they were specifically not a part of Saren's group, which is why their data was important to Tali. Those Geth were outside of the Veil, and also quite hostile.
I'm not sure why everyone trusts what Legion says either. He could easily be lying. Just because someone is cool doesn't mean they can't also be liars either.

You are totally wrong.

Firstly, in ME1 the Geth in Armstrong Nebula are heretics. It is openly stated if you acquire this mission by hacking the geth terminal on Virmire, located in the same room you fight a krogan "doctor" an asari and several husks, that it was Saren who ordered the geth (that is his heretic followers) to establish outpost there.

Secondly, if Legion were hostile it would kill Shepard aboard the old Reaper. And the idea of deceipt is imperceptable for the networked collective contiousness. Legion is quite astonished even to find that the heretics are spying on them. Intelligent as they are, the geth are still machine race and probably can't "lie" at all. Like when being pushed on the question, why would it use a piece of Shepard's armor for repairs, it can't produce a false statement, it just denies to reply.

Legion says that no True Geth has passed beyond the Perseus Veil except for him, as that is what his platform was designed for. The True Geth just monitor organics remotely, and are specifically interested in Shepard. They have no interest in physically interfering or attacking organics unless they threaten them.
Any Geth we saw in ME1 had to have been a heretic, because they were all beyond the Perseus Veil, and they were all planning to attack organics, which is behaviour incited by Sovereign.

[RighteousRage]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

There are three people in this thread so far who never played Mass Effect 1.

And there's one who has never played Mass Effect 2

huhu

[A Blind Bandit]

Which is why I proposed that the Quarians stop fighting the Geth and find a peaceful solution. I wish I could have brought Tali into the AI core to talk with Legion so she can better understand the situation.

[Gill Kaiser]

R-F wrote...

on insanity they are a threat to me:wizard:

after talking to Legion a lot i believe that the Quarians need to try something else, or maybe go find another home planet. it's their own fault for experimenting with AI, that never, ever works.

Why? According to Legion, the Geth see themselves as only caretakers of the Quarian homeworld. They actually live in space stations above it, and see it as a memorial to the Morning War. Provided Shepard helps broker peace between the Quarians and the Geth, I see no reason why the Quarians couldn't return to their homeworld.

[AngryFrozenWater]

BTW: The assumption that they cannot lie because they are a machine race has no foundation. If the geth (heretic or not) are sentient and capable of creative and independent thought then there is no reason why they cannot be good, evil or lie. They can have the same kind of thought processes that organics can have.

[RighteousRage]

I don't really see how the geth are any different from humans, albeit with much more efficient communication and memories.

[AngryFrozenWater]

RighteousRage wrote...

I don't really see how the geth are any different from humans, albeit with much more efficient communication and memories.

Exactly.

[Empiro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Empiro wrote...

Not all Geth in ME 1 were heretics. In the Geth incursion missions, you also fought them, and they were specifically not a part of Saren's group, which is why their data was important to Tali. Those Geth were outside of the Veil, and also quite hostile.
I'm not sure why everyone trusts what Legion says either. He could easily be lying. Just because someone is cool doesn't mean they can't also be liars either.

You are totally wrong.

Firstly, in ME1 the Geth in Armstrong Nebula are heretics. It is openly stated if you acquire this mission by hacking the geth terminal on Virmire, located in the same room you fight a krogan "doctor" an asari and several husks, that it was Saren who ordered the geth (that is his heretic followers) to establish outpost there.

I'll have to make sure to replay that part of the game again. I'll yield this point for the time being. If you're correct, then it would be highly odd for Shepard to give the data to Tali if you went and did the mission after you hacked the terminal. This works under the assumption that both Tali and Shepard aren't totally incompetent, of course.

Secondly, if Legion were hostile it would kill Shepard aboard the old Reaper. And the idea of deceipt is imperceptable for the networked collective contiousness. Legion is quite astonished even to find that the heretics are spying on them. Intelligent as they are, the geth are still machine race and probably can't "lie" at all. Like when being pushed on the question, why would it use a piece of Shepard's armor for repairs, it can't produce a false statement, it just denies to reply.

There are a number of reasons why he wouldn't -- it's pretty clear in ME1 that if the Reapers attack, they will likely destroy the Geth too, so it makes sense for them to try to stop the Reapers too. Killing Shepard doesn't help them at all, and will likely hurt them. Legion is surprised that Geth are spying on fellow Geth. Legion also states that they don't feel fear but understands its effects on humans. No doubt they can understand the benefits of lying too.

Finally, I didn't say that Legion was definitely lying. I said that he could be. I wouldn't be so quick to trust a race that likely has a huge military force, are extremely xenophobic to the point of destroying anyone in their territory, and have demonstrated the capability for genocide. Yes, at first it was in defense, but when you wipe out 99.9% of a race, what part of that 99.9% do you think are the elderly, children, or civilians that otherwise had absolutely no means of defending themselves? At some point, self-defense became genocide.

All I'm saying is, I wouldn't let my guard down, but I would hope that he's telling the truth in order to avoid a costly war.

[Ajspeed]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Empiro wrote...

Not all Geth in ME 1 were heretics. In the Geth incursion missions, you also fought them, and they were specifically not a part of Saren's group, which is why their data was important to Tali. Those Geth were outside of the Veil, and also quite hostile.
I'm not sure why everyone trusts what Legion says either. He could easily be lying. Just because someone is cool doesn't mean they can't also be liars either.

You are totally wrong.

Firstly, in ME1 the Geth in Armstrong Nebula are heretics. It is openly stated if you acquire this mission by hacking the geth terminal on Virmire, located in the same room you fight a krogan "doctor" an asari and several husks, that it was Saren who ordered the geth (that is his heretic followers) to establish outpost there.

Secondly, if Legion were hostile it would kill Shepard aboard the old Reaper. And the idea of deceipt is imperceptable for the networked collective contiousness. Legion is quite astonished even to find that the heretics are spying on them. Intelligent as they are, the geth are still machine race and probably can't "lie" at all. Like when being pushed on the question, why would it use a piece of Shepard's armor for repairs, it can't produce a false statement, it just denies to reply.

I agree with you Legion could have easily Blown shepards Head of on the Derelict Reaper, He could have hacked normandys systems any time when allowed in, he Could have killed tali, he Could have Sent that data about the Quarains(depending on which option you choose) it seems quite clear that Legion is not a Threat but is and even said he Strives for the Goals of the Geth and the same as shepards to Stop the "old machines" and too either change or destroy the heretic Geth.

And a previous post by someone stated that the geth didnt destroy the Quarians and that iin game they only started fighting when the geth started to question themselves of whether they had souls, they have quite a strong defence to many of there actions and they are just AI

[jimmyjoefro]

The Geth are a potential threat to the entire galaxy. They can survive nearly anywhere, can "reproduce" faster than organics, and have superior technology. Their only weakness is their programming, which I imagine they will one day "fix".

[Empiro]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

RighteousRage wrote...

I don't really see how the geth are any different from humans, albeit with much more efficient communication and memories.

Exactly.

I agree. So lets consider a nation that kills anyone crossing their borders, a nation that you have little information about other than it having a large and powerful military, one that nearly wiped out another race, one that had a (supposed) rogue faction come out and kill a bunch of people, and one that has had no diplomatic contact with any other nations for hundreds of years until now. If that human tells you they're no threat to anyone, would you really believe them? I'd hope for the best, but still keep my eyes on them.

Modifié par Empiro, 17 février 2010 - 05:47 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Empiro wrote...

Finally, I didn't say that Legion was definitely lying. I said that he could be. I wouldn't be so quick to trust a race that likely has a huge military force, are extremely xenophobic to the point of destroying anyone in their territory, and have demonstrated the capability for genocide. Yes, at first it was in defense, but when you wipe out 99.9% of a race, what part of that 99.9% do you think are the elderly, children, or civilians that otherwise had absolutely no means of defending themselves? At some point, self-defense became genocide.

All I'm saying is, I wouldn't let my guard down, but I would hope that he's telling the truth in order to avoid a costly war.

The geth aren't hostile to organic life. The heretics are. Don't confuse both. The non-heretic geth even stopped their "hostilities" after they exiled the quarians from their home planet. They could have destroyed them, but they didn't. Don't letting your guard down seems logical, but will never be a good basis for peace negotioations. They have already proven that they stopped attacking the quarians.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 17 février 2010 - 05:46 .

[Lmaoboat]

You also have to look at this externally and see that it would pretty lame of Bioware to spend all this time developing Geth history, philosphy, culture, and Legion's personality, just to turn around and go, "JK, it was a trick."

[AngryFrozenWater]

Lmaoboat wrote...

You also have to look at this externally and see that it would pretty lame of Bioware to spend all this time developing Geth history, philosphy, culture, and Legion's personality, just to turn around and go, "JK, it was a trick."

Yes. That is true. It rarely happens that such well developed information cannot be trusted.

[Ajspeed]

Lmaoboat wrote...

You also have to look at this externally and see that it would pretty lame of Bioware to spend all this time developing Geth history, philosphy, culture, and Legion's personality, just to turn around and go, "JK, it was a trick."

Lol true they havent done that before well maybe in knights of the old Republic if you went dark side lol