108 réponses à ce sujet

[Ajspeed]

Empiro wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

RighteousRage wrote...

I don't really see how the geth are any different from humans, albeit with much more efficient communication and memories.

Exactly.

I agree. So lets consider a nation that kills anyone crossing their borders, a nation that you have little information about other than it having a large and powerful military, one that nearly wiped out another race, one that had a (supposed) rogue faction come out and kill a bunch of people, and one that has had no diplomatic contact with any other nations for hundreds of years until now. If that human tells you they're no threat to anyone, would you really believe them? I'd hope for the best, but still keep my eyes on them.

Well think about it this way they are sentient machines Created to be unique, the fact that some of there logic was corrupted by other sentient machines isnt there fault, heavy blame goes to the Quarians for inventing them, they played god and they payed dearly for it

[StowyMcStowstow]

The Quarians assume the Geth are hostile, and only try to destroy them without ever trying to negotiate. The Geth are only a threat to the Quarians. No one else.

[Zulu_DFA]

Empiro wrote...
Legion also states that they don't feel fear but understands its effects on humans. No doubt they can understand the benefits of lying too.

Legion also states, that organic thinking process involves both "software" and "hardware". Geth are only "software", pure math. The hardware, the platforms (troopers, colossi, ships) is irrelevant to their thinking process. That's why they don't experience fear. Fear is the function of organic "hardware". Telling lies needs this "hardware" too. Why do you think there is such thing as polygraph (aka lie detector)? Pure math process can not produce a false statment, unless specifically tasked with doing so. Even then it might just be reflected as an error and shut the process down. And Geth simply cannot invent such a "lying program" since thay don't have any experience in it. Interaction with Saren and the Reapers could tought the heretics some dirty tricks like spying on their former bros, but it's way to long before the geth can learn how to lie.

[nitefyre410]

The beautiful Irony of the True Geth is that they are doing exactly what they are programed to do take care of the Quarian homeworld.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ajspeed wrote...

Empiro wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

RighteousRage wrote...

I don't really see how the geth are any different from humans, albeit with much more efficient communication and memories.

Exactly.

I agree. So lets consider a nation that kills anyone crossing their borders, a nation that you have little information about other than it having a large and powerful military, one that nearly wiped out another race, one that had a (supposed) rogue faction come out and kill a bunch of people, and one that has had no diplomatic contact with any other nations for hundreds of years until now. If that human tells you they're no threat to anyone, would you really believe them? I'd hope for the best, but still keep my eyes on them.

Well think about it this way they are sentient machines Created to be unique, the fact that some of there logic was corrupted by other sentient machines isnt there fault, heavy blame goes to the Quarians for inventing them, they played god and they payed dearly for it

Why do people insist that the geth as we see them are created by anyone other than the geth? The initial geth were created by the quarians. After that the geth have their own evolutionary path. They create and design new variations of their originals. Machines imply non-sentience. The geth are true synthetic lifeforms. And no, their logic was not corrupted. The heretics have been indoctrinated by a religion imposed upon them by the reapers. The non-heretic geth were not affected.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 17 février 2010 - 06:22 .

[Schneidend]

As things stand, the bulk of geth society isn't a threat to anybody. They aren't attacking, and likely have no plans to attack in the foreseeable future. They don't really gain anything by attacking other races, since their space has plenty of resources and, well, space.



The only history of true geth "hosility" is the geth data mission in ME1. Even then, those geth weren't attacking so much as setting up shop on uncharted worlds. They only actually start attacking when you barrel into them in the Mako and start slaughtering them.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Schneidend wrote...

As things stand, the bulk of geth society isn't a threat to anybody. They aren't attacking, and likely have no plans to attack in the foreseeable future. They don't really gain anything by attacking other races, since their space has plenty of resources and, well, space.

The only history of true geth "hosility" is the geth data mission in ME1. Even then, those geth weren't attacking so much as setting up shop on uncharted worlds. They only actually start attacking when you barrel into them in the Mako and start slaughtering them.

I assume that those geth were heretics.

[ZaDonKilluminati]

The Quarians started the war when the geth were just asking if they had souls. It's all the Quarians fault.

[AngryFrozenWater]

ZaDonKilluminati wrote...

The Quarians started the war when the geth were just asking if they had souls. It's all the Quarians fault.

Exactly. The quarians never tried to negotiate. Instead they tried to shut them all down. Of course the geth did the one thing that remains in such a situation: Fight for their existence.

[Zulu_DFA]

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

The Quarians assume the Geth are hostile, and only try to destroy them without ever trying to negotiate. The Geth are only a threat to the Quarians. No one else.

The threat to a man bashing his head against the wall is not the wall. It's the man himself.

The Quarians are losers in every way. Have anyone noticed that Kal'Reegar refers to Tali as "Ma'am", although he is supposedly a bit older then her? And Tali graciously tries to play democratic and asks him to just call her "Tali"? And Kal'Reegar epicly fails: "Working on it, ma'am!" This can have just one posible explanation. Tali is freaking royalty and Kal'Reegar is freaking peasantry.

And it is this arrogant mentality that prevented the Quarians from proper communication with their mechanic slaves 300 years ago and is still preventing them from the return to their homeworld. Just listen to Admiral Xen (preferably with Legion in the party). They don't want to just return to their homeworld. They want to win this war. And they want not to just win it but to reenslave the Geth, as a matter of revenge.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 février 2010 - 06:35 .

[Ajspeed]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

ZaDonKilluminati wrote...

The Quarians started the war when the geth were just asking if they had souls. It's all the Quarians fault.

Exactly. The quarians never tried to negotiate. Instead they tried to shut them all down. Of course the geth did the one thing that remains in such a situation: Fight for their existence.

Well im not saying that the quarians did the right thing they shouldnt have done that and in a way brought about there own future by the things they created

[AngryFrozenWater]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

The Quarians assume the Geth are hostile, and only try to destroy them without ever trying to negotiate. The Geth are only a threat to the Quarians. No one else.

The threat to a man bashing his head against the wall is not the wall. It's the man himself.

The Quarians are losers in every way. Have anyone noticed that Kal'Reegar refers to Tali as "Ma'am", although he is supposedly a bit older then her? And Tali graciously tries to play democratic and asks him to just call her "Tali"? And Kal'Reegar epicly fails: "Working on it, ma'am!" This can have just one posible explanation. Tali is freaking royalty and Kal'Reegar is freaking peasantry.

And it is this arrogant mentality that prevented the quarians to communicate with their mechanic slaves 300 years ago and is still preventing them from the return to their homeworld. Just listen to Admiral Xen (preferably with Legion in the party). They don't want to just return to their homeworld. They want to win this war. And they want not to just win it but to reenslave the Geth, as a matter of revenge.

That's a bit cheap. Have you talked to the other admirals and investigated their point of view? There is also one who is described as a geth apologist. That guy thinks the quarians started the war and he wants peace with the geth.

[The Capital Gaultier]

The Geth are a threat to anybody who they meet. Not that they're actively hostile or anything, minus the Heretics.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ajspeed wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

ZaDonKilluminati wrote...

The Quarians started the war when the geth were just asking if they had souls. It's all the Quarians fault.

Exactly. The quarians never tried to negotiate. Instead they tried to shut them all down. Of course the geth did the one thing that remains in such a situation: Fight for their existence.

Well im not saying that the quarians did the right thing they shouldnt have done that and in a way brought about there own future by the things they created

I agree again.

[Rankao]

I am the only person who actually feel more sorry for the geth then the Quarians. I mean I'm a Tali fan and all but I don't side with her opinions of the geth. I especially feel a little touch when Legion mention that all the Geth really want to understand why the creators attacked him. I was like "Because they are racist."

[AngryFrozenWater]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

The Geth are a threat to anybody who they meet. Not that they're actively hostile or anything, minus the Heretics.

Care to explain? Because there is absolutely nothing that supports that idea.

[Ajspeed]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ajspeed wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

ZaDonKilluminati wrote...

The Quarians started the war when the geth were just asking if they had souls. It's all the Quarians fault.

Exactly. The quarians never tried to negotiate. Instead they tried to shut them all down. Of course the geth did the one thing that remains in such a situation: Fight for their existence.

Well im not saying that the quarians did the right thing they shouldnt have done that and in a way brought about there own future by the things they created

I agree again.

Haha good as i said before id like too see either tali coming to her senses and returning to the floatilla to get them to negotiate with the geth race allowing them to both co exist with no hostilites or have Legion be the catalyst for Quarian and most the galaxies trust returned to the geth or shepard doing both i dont mind

[AngryFrozenWater]

Rankao wrote...

I am the only person who actually feel more sorry for the geth then the Quarians. I mean I'm a Tali fan and all but I don't side with her opinions of the geth. I especially feel a little touch when Legion mention that all the Geth really want to understand why the creators attacked him. I was like "Because they are racist."

You are not the only one. In ME1 Tali explains the events of the quarian/geth war. I have always responded with: You can't blaim them for defending themselves. Or similar words to that nature. And Tali gets angry.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 17 février 2010 - 06:45 .

[Zulu_DFA]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

The Quarians assume the Geth are hostile, and only try to destroy them without ever trying to negotiate. The Geth are only a threat to the Quarians. No one else.

The threat to a man bashing his head against the wall is not the wall. It's the man himself.

The Quarians are losers in every way. Have anyone noticed that Kal'Reegar refers to Tali as "Ma'am", although he is supposedly a bit older then her? And Tali graciously tries to play democratic and asks him to just call her "Tali"? And Kal'Reegar epicly fails: "Working on it, ma'am!" This can have just one posible explanation. Tali is freaking royalty and Kal'Reegar is freaking peasantry.

And it is this arrogant mentality that prevented the quarians to communicate with their mechanic slaves 300 years ago and is still preventing them from the return to their homeworld. Just listen to Admiral Xen (preferably with Legion in the party). They don't want to just return to their homeworld. They want to win this war. And they want not to just win it but to reenslave the Geth, as a matter of revenge.

That's a bit cheap. Have you talked to the other admirals and investigated their point of view? There is also one who is described as a geth apologist. That guy thinks the quarians started the war and he wants peace with the geth.

In fact I encouraged that pacifist Admiral to do his "noble" job. I just mean the Xen's views seem to have been prevalent at the time of the "Morning War". Legion's replayed recording of that "do these units have a soul?" conversation support this. And the revelation that quarian society is divided into estates that suppose certain cultural inequality supports this too.

[Internet Kraken]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

The Quarians assume the Geth are hostile, and only try to destroy them without ever trying to negotiate. The Geth are only a threat to the Quarians. No one else.

The threat to a man bashing his head against the wall is not the wall. It's the man himself.

The Quarians are losers in every way. Have anyone noticed that Kal'Reegar refers to Tali as "Ma'am", although he is supposedly a bit older then her? And Tali graciously tries to play democratic and asks him to just call her "Tali"? And Kal'Reegar epicly fails: "Working on it, ma'am!" This can have just one posible explanation. Tali is freaking royalty and Kal'Reegar is freaking peasantry.

And it is this arrogant mentality that prevented the quarians to communicate with their mechanic slaves 300 years ago and is still preventing them from the return to their homeworld. Just listen to Admiral Xen (preferably with Legion in the party). They don't want to just return to their homeworld. They want to win this war. And they want not to just win it but to reenslave the Geth, as a matter of revenge.

That's a bit cheap. Have you talked to the other admirals and investigated their point of view? There is also one who is described as a geth apologist. That guy thinks the quarians started the war and he wants peace with the geth.

And it looks like he is in the minority, which is rather sad. There are still plenty of Quarians (like tali) that take joy in the idea of killing off the Geth. Though at least Shepard's actions can help to eliminate this attitude.
 

[Schneidend]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I assume that those geth were heretics.

I don't think they were. I mean, they had a quarian ancestor VI in their main base singing. Why would the heretics place any value on quarian ancestor VIs? They'd be more likely to destroy them then use them, I think.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ajspeed wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ajspeed wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

ZaDonKilluminati wrote...

The Quarians started the war when the geth were just asking if they had souls. It's all the Quarians fault.

Exactly. The quarians never tried to negotiate. Instead they tried to shut them all down. Of course the geth did the one thing that remains in such a situation: Fight for their existence.

Well im not saying that the quarians did the right thing they shouldnt have done that and in a way brought about there own future by the things they created

I agree again.

Haha good as i said before id like too see either tali coming to her senses and returning to the floatilla to get them to negotiate with the geth race allowing them to both co exist with no hostilites or have Legion be the catalyst for Quarian and most the galaxies trust returned to the geth or shepard doing both i dont mind

This may be a bit over the top... But I like to see the geth get a seat on the Council one day.

[Rankao]

Internet Kraken wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

The Quarians assume the Geth are hostile, and only try to destroy them without ever trying to negotiate. The Geth are only a threat to the Quarians. No one else.

The threat to a man bashing his head against the wall is not the wall. It's the man himself.

The Quarians are losers in every way. Have anyone noticed that Kal'Reegar refers to Tali as "Ma'am", although he is supposedly a bit older then her? And Tali graciously tries to play democratic and asks him to just call her "Tali"? And Kal'Reegar epicly fails: "Working on it, ma'am!" This can have just one posible explanation. Tali is freaking royalty and Kal'Reegar is freaking peasantry.

And it is this arrogant mentality that prevented the quarians to communicate with their mechanic slaves 300 years ago and is still preventing them from the return to their homeworld. Just listen to Admiral Xen (preferably with Legion in the party). They don't want to just return to their homeworld. They want to win this war. And they want not to just win it but to reenslave the Geth, as a matter of revenge.

That's a bit cheap. Have you talked to the other admirals and investigated their point of view? There is also one who is described as a geth apologist. That guy thinks the quarians started the war and he wants peace with the geth.

And it looks like he is in the minority, which is rather sad. There are still plenty of Quarians (like tali) that take joy in the idea of killing off the Geth. Though at least Shepard's actions can help to eliminate this attitude.
 

really how? I've never been able to successfully do this? she just tolerates legion. 

[The Capital Gaultier]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

The Geth are a threat to anybody who they meet. Not that they're actively hostile or anything, minus the Heretics.

Care to explain? Because there is absolutely nothing that supports that idea.

They're a foreign race with their own ideals.  You can't discount them as a threat merely because they're not hostile.  Not even if they're your allies.

[Empiro]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

The Quarians assume the Geth are hostile, and only try to destroy them without ever trying to negotiate. The Geth are only a threat to the Quarians. No one else.

The threat to a man bashing his head against the wall is not the wall. It's the man himself.

The Quarians are losers in every way. Have anyone noticed that Kal'Reegar refers to Tali as "Ma'am", although he is supposedly a bit older then her? And Tali graciously tries to play democratic and asks him to just call her "Tali"? And Kal'Reegar epicly fails: "Working on it, ma'am!" This can have just one posible explanation. Tali is freaking royalty and Kal'Reegar is freaking peasantry.

And it is this arrogant mentality that prevented the quarians to communicate with their mechanic slaves 300 years ago and is still preventing them from the return to their homeworld. Just listen to Admiral Xen (preferably with Legion in the party). They don't want to just return to their homeworld. They want to win this war. And they want not to just win it but to reenslave the Geth, as a matter of revenge.

That's a bit cheap. Have you talked to the other admirals and investigated their point of view? There is also one who is described as a geth apologist. That guy thinks the quarians started the war and he wants peace with the geth.

I can fully understand why Quarians would be upset. At first, the Geth might have been fighting for self defense, but it became genocide. There were billions of Quarians before the war, the vast majority of them unarmed civilians, children, and the elderly. The Geth killed 99.9% of them or so. Only 1 in 1000 survived, and that's a staggering figure. I don't know where you people work or go to school, but if you're in high school or you work for a pretty large company of a few thousand, imagine that everyone, and I mean everyone getting killed, except for maybe a handful of people, all because your government leaders decided to do something stupid.

If the Geth had simply left or forced the surrender of the Quarians after they defeated their military, I'd be more sympathetic to the Geth, but they demonstrate  that they had absolutely no qualms about killing billions upon billions of unarmed Quarians. Sure, they aren't hostile now, but it's pretty clear that if they eventually conclude that the key to their future is the destruction of all sentient life in the galaxy, they'd do it without any hesitation. It's the lack of conscience that concerns me more about the Geth than anything else.

Note that I think in true Bioware style, in ME3, we'll find that the situation is more complex than any of us anticipate.