66 réponses à ce sujet

[AntiChri5]

The Vindicator eliminates all the weaknesses of the Vangaurd without taking away the special feel of the class.

[cxensign]

Claymore is more of a sidegrade than an upgrade compared to the other shotguns.  If you love it, great, take it, but you get a lot more flexibility from the Viper or Vindicator.

Viper and Vindicator replace the hand cannon more than the SMG.  The Viper is more powerful on paper and is better at long range.  However, it's a lot worse if you're caught with it at short range, and it's a much harder weapon to handle than the Vindicator; you lose the damage advantage quickly if you can't chain 3 headshots a second with it.  Overall the two weapons are pretty balanced against each other, and which is better comes down to how well you handle the two guns and what part of the game needs shoring up.

[Lord Coake]

I grabbed an assault rifle for my Vanguard.  It gives the class a sloid long-range ability to tear down shields and barriers before switching to the shotgun (I prefer the Scimitar) and charging in.

And, it's nice to be able to grab some cover and get some headshots in when facing large numbers.  SMG's and Heavy Pistols are nice, but a Vindicator helps immensly.

I would never snag a sniper rifle as a Vanguard.  Too little ammo, and far too specialized a weapon for what a Vanguard needs/

[Lord Coake]

mattp420 wrote...

You don't find it redundant that you have SMG and AR?

SMG's are very good weapons, but they're best for tearing off shields and barriers in close.  Sometimes, a situation calls for being able to bunker down and make shots count.  The Vindicator, and too a lesser extent, the Avenger, are very good for this.

[DaKroganKillla]

RamsenC wrote...

AR is the smart sensible choice, Claymore is the vanguard choice.

QFT.

Claymore is best for a Vanguard who likes to charge a lot. For the nerfed Soldier types that need "flexibility" the AR is the way to go, but if you need flexibility, be a Soldier.

[Lord Coake]

DaKroganKillla wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

AR is the smart sensible choice, Claymore is the vanguard choice.

QFT.

Claymore is best for a Vanguard who likes to charge a lot. For the nerfed Soldier types that need "flexibility" the AR is the way to go, but if you need flexibility, be a Soldier.

Versatility and ammo capcity are life.  Accuracy and rate of fire make life comfortable.
And yes, I play a vanguard.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 05 mars 2010 - 06:11 .

[sandman7431]

DaKroganKillla wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

AR is the smart sensible choice, Claymore is the vanguard choice.

QFT.

Claymore is best for a Vanguard who likes to charge a lot. For the nerfed Soldier types that need "flexibility" the AR is the way to go, but if you need flexibility, be a Soldier.

I don't think the vanguard has to be an inflexible class.  The reality is that the claymore isn't even a better weapon than the eviscerator so it's basically a choice of either taking another weapon class or leaving it.  If the claymore were as much of a step up as the LMG or the widow, I would take it without a second thought.  In fact I did take it on my first vanguard run.  I found that I actually prefered the eviscerator though and even the scimitar is a very good weapon when used right.  Using the claymore as a vanguard is nothing like the experience of firing the widow for the first time as an infiltrator.

I think this is what makes the vanguard such a versatile class.  You can really eliminate a lot of the early game weaknesses of the class by rounding out your arsenal on the collector ship.

[AntiChri5]

What does the Claymore give you that you dont already have?

[sinosleep]

Meh, as I've said in other threads, I prefer picking the sniper rifle on my vanguards. I've played through the game with a claymore, and frankly I don't really like ARs on anything other than soldiers (the vindicator's ammo count is a non issue on soldiers but can be on other classes), so that leaves me out of options. I liked having the utility of a sniper rifle for YMIR mechs and unchargeable enemies.

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 mars 2010 - 06:29 .

[_Dannok1234]

DaKroganKillla wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

AR is the smart sensible choice, Claymore is the vanguard choice.

QFT.

Claymore is best for a Vanguard who likes to charge a lot. For the nerfed Soldier types that need "flexibility" the AR is the way to go, but if you need flexibility, be a Soldier.

Claymore is mostly for enthusiasts I'd say,  rather than those that charge a lot. The Scimitar and Evi, will be safer, just as fast and if you can't do the reload trick each time, then they're much better. Even with the reload trick the evi will be faster against groups and the scim will be the equal to it. Against elite types(twice the health of normal enemies), you get a slight advantage over the Scim with the Claymore, but it's tiny.

Vanguards are amazing, you pick 2 powers/skills Heavy Charge and Champion, everything else is just gravy and about personal tastes including which shotgun to use. They all get the job done.

[Acero Azul]

 If you are a true vanguard you will use charge to eliminate range:)

[sinosleep]

Unless you can't.

[_Dannok1234]

Not to mention the viper will kill enemies like Scions and the armor of ymir mech's faster then pretty much everything. (other than heavy weapons)

Modifié par Dannok1234, 05 mars 2010 - 06:47 .

[RamsenC]

DaKroganKillla wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

AR is the smart sensible choice, Claymore is the vanguard choice.

QFT.

Claymore is best for a Vanguard who likes to charge a lot. For the nerfed Soldier types that need "flexibility" the AR is the way to go, but if you need flexibility, be a Soldier.

That's not really what I meant. Scimitar and Evi are great for a charging vanguard, its just not the sensible choice since you give up versatility. Vanguard is the opposite of sensible though.

The Evi really hurts Claymore's viability since it is also capable of one shotting average enemies.

[rumination888]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Not to mention the viper will kill enemies like Scions and the armor of ymir mech's faster then pretty much everything. (other than heavy weapons)

Not faster than a pointblank Claymore or Eviscerator.

[JaegerBane]

Lord Coake wrote...

I grabbed an assault rifle for my Vanguard.  It gives the class a sloid long-range ability to tear down shields and barriers before switching to the shotgun (I prefer the Scimitar) and charging in.

And, it's nice to be able to grab some cover and get some headshots in when facing large numbers.  SMG's and Heavy Pistols are nice, but a Vindicator helps immensly.

I would never snag a sniper rifle as a Vanguard.  Too little ammo, and far too specialized a weapon for what a Vanguard needs/

The only situation where a Vindicator is preferable to a Viper is if the enemy has made lots of ground on you while the firefight is going on, and you need to charge quickly. In that respect, the Vindicator is the more flexible of the weapons, but if you just want something that handles range then the Viper pulls way ahead. Ultimately it comes down to how comfortable you are switching guns when required.

I have to confess that this refusal to take Sniper Rifles 'just because you're a vanguard' has never made a great deal of sense to me. You take whatever weapon you feel you could make the most use of, not what the class description says. I also don't understand how 'too little ammo' is a reason not to take the Viper but take the Vindicator. The Viper has less bullets, yes... but does a lot more with them. Vindicator is the one which has 'too little ammo'.

You have, however, touched on a dimension that hasn't been really mentioned here, and that's choice of Shotgun. I infinitely prefer the Scimitar too, thanks to it's rate of fire and flexibility (hell, I even use this little guy on my Adept...) if you're in the same boat, Claymore is an even worse choice.

[sinosleep]

rumination888 wrote...
Not faster than a pointblank Claymore or Eviscerator.

How many point blank shots are you going to get off against a YMIR before having to back off? I've seen vids of charging vanguards taking on YMIR's straight up. They get 2 shots off and have to find cover then charge again rinse and repeat. With a viper you can empty a whole clip before needing cover.

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 mars 2010 - 06:59 .

[_Dannok1234]

rumination888 wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...

Not to mention the viper will kill enemies like Scions and the armor of ymir mech's faster then pretty much everything. (other than heavy weapons)

Not faster than a pointblank Claymore or Eviscerator.

The claymore is probably faster thats true. But when it comes to the Evi, that would be depending on the amount of shots needed for it to die with either weapon, to me the viper seems to feel faster. Both weapons(evi/viper) will shot+reload two clips in about 8 seconds (without speed reload so to speak). 

[RamsenC]

The Viper can unleash so much damage, so fast, and safely. I use it over heavy weapons for boss/mech killing.

[sandman7431]

RamsenC wrote...

The Viper can unleash so much damage, so fast, and safely. I use it over heavy weapons for boss/mech killing.

Really?  You play as a vanguard and fight the harder enemies in the game with a sniper rifle!?  I don't think I could do that with the vanguard.

Try playing them inside-out.  this is why the AR is such a great tool for vanguards.  Basically, use your storm speed to get to cover closer to the mech.  do a bunch of damage on it from close range and then charge away to safety.  Close in on it again and repeat.  You'll probably kill them much more quickly than by peppering them with the viper.

Modifié par sandman7431, 05 mars 2010 - 07:17 .

[Lord Coake]

It all comes down to a matter of tactics, really. Even as a Vanguard, my Shepard is a cagey fighter. Move about, wear down shields, armor and barriers, get in position then boom, rampage.



It also suits my preference for firepower. Scimitar for shotgun, Avenger for AR, Predator for pistol and Tempest for SMG. I got the ammo pack armor piece, and favor increased health and power damage. I went with Raider for my mastery, barrier for my extra power, and heavy charge.



I built my Vanguard for pure, raw endurance in battle. My soldier is a freaking all-offense wrecking machine.

[DaKroganKillla]

Dannok1234 wrote...

DaKroganKillla wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

AR is the smart sensible choice, Claymore is the vanguard choice.

QFT.

Claymore is best for a Vanguard who likes to charge a lot. For the nerfed Soldier types that need "flexibility" the AR is the way to go, but if you need flexibility, be a Soldier.

Claymore is mostly for enthusiasts I'd say,  rather than those that charge a lot. The Scimitar and Evi, will be safer, just as fast and if you can't do the reload trick each time, then they're much better. Even with the reload trick the evi will be faster against groups and the scim will be the equal to it. Against elite types(twice the health of normal enemies), you get a slight advantage over the Scim with the Claymore, but it's tiny.

Vanguards are amazing, you pick 2 powers/skills Heavy Charge and Champion, everything else is just gravy and about personal tastes including which shotgun to use. They all get the job done.

Slap Inferno Ammo on the Claymore and you can pretty much charge-shot-melee anything in the game while his buddies are running around on fire regardless of protection. And the reload trick isn't hard to do btw. To anyone who cries "The Claymore has no ammo!" I say if you run out of ammo, you ain't doin it right!

Also, I like the evi, but only on a few classes where Claymore is not an option, or not the best option, ie Soldier (Revenant) or Sentinal. 

[_Dannok1234]

I just gave it a try but it's difficult to do all shots point blank with the evi, you will not be able to just stand there and fire off point blank shots. You have to do charges and such or you die which delays you by a lot. I seemed to use over 3 clips with the evi against a scion comparing that to the Viper which I could just fire without having to charge using the same number of clips the viper ends up being noticeably faster.

Now let's assume you can stand still and fire all you want, then they will be pretty equal, as they both empty a clip and reload at the same speed.

[Saeculum]

Personally I use the claymore, but thats only b/c I think it's a good weapon and soldier really can't use it as effectively. The other shotguns are definately safer, but on xbox I find that holding right trigger and tapping x when you hear the second click make the reload trick pretty effortless. The only real advantages I can find is that I was able to kill scions more effectively with the claymore--but thats pretty limited and requires knowing their attack patterns pretty well as well as killing other mobs off first--and you can one-shot husks with body shots if you use tungsten ammo. I suppose the real question is do you mind using the hand cannon over the viper..b/c the viper's the only other weapon really worth having on a Vanguard imo.

Modifié par Saeculum, 05 mars 2010 - 07:30 .

[RamsenC]

sandman7431 wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

The Viper can unleash so much damage, so fast, and safely. I use it over heavy weapons for boss/mech killing.

Really?  You play as a vanguard and fight the harder enemies in the game with a sniper rifle!?  I don't think I could do that with the vanguard.

Try playing them inside-out.  this is why the AR is such a great tool for vanguards.  Basically, use your storm speed to get to cover closer to the mech.  do a bunch of damage on it from close range and then charge away to safety.  Close in on it again and repeat.  You'll probably kill them much more quickly than by peppering them with the viper.

If you are coming in at a closer range, why are you using an AR at all, just use the shotgun. Against mechs I spray down their shields with the tempest then take out armor with the Viper. There is really no better/safer way to do this outside of using heavy weapons. If you charge a mech it has to be alone and you have to take breaks from shooting to take cover.  Also when I say bosses, I don't mean silly mercs with armor and shields. I mean praetorians, gunships, the final boss, etc. 

The Viper also out damages the Vindicator since it fires so fast, so I'm not sure what you are saying. Vindicator has the nice option of replacing your shotgun if you run out of ammo, but that is not a concern to me. I play on the PC so quick aiming with the viper is also no problem. Hell I can fight husks with the viper.