288 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBestClass]

/signed.



This is a real pain in the ass.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Signed.
Only played as a soldier so it wasn't much of an issue and I didn't max anyone's ammo but mine. Still, such an oversight is *not* cool.
Also is rather baffling that the squad "no power usage" option doesn't even work, really...

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 19 avril 2010 - 07:21 .

[implodinggoat]

Alright, I'm going to send Christina Norman another message. I'll tell you if I get a response this time.

[Ravellion]

Yeah, this really screws up Thane, who has a poor ammo power for the higher difficulties anyway. So 'Signed'.

[SmokeyNinjas]

implodinggoat wrote...

Alright, I'm going to send Christina Norman another message. I'll tell you if I get a response this time.

Just out of curiosity how many times have you messaged her about this?
Oh & "Signed"

Modifié par SmokeyNinjas, 18 avril 2010 - 10:41 .

[implodinggoat]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Alright, I'm going to send Christina Norman another message. I'll tell you if I get a response this time.

Just out of curiosity how many times have you messaged her about this?
Oh & "Signed"

Only twice including the one I sent today.  Once today and once a little over a month ago.  I never got a response to the first message; but I suppose I can understand that since it was closer to the game's launch when I sent the first message and I'd imagine her mailbox was pretty full. 

I hope she takes the issue a little more seriously now that the thread has ten pages of signatures; but if she doesn't I also sent a copy of the message to Brenon Holmes and Don Moar who are both on the programming team as well as Stanley Woo who handles quality assurance. 

Hopefully one of them will give me an answer this time around.

[implodinggoat]

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

Signed.
Only played as a soldier so it wasn't much of an issue and I didn't max anyone's ammo but mine. Still, such an oversight is *not* cool.
Also is rather baffling that the squad "no power usage" option doesn't even work, really...

If you look carefully the "no power usage" option still tasks the AI with handling ammo powers and defensive powers like Barrier, Fortification and Geth Shield Boost.

My preffered class is soldier and I still found it an irritation since I like to use my own ammo powers to give my squad a useful ammo in any situation (Heavy Warp Ammo for me and Squad Disruptor and Squad Incendiary for my team).

Modifié par implodinggoat, 18 avril 2010 - 11:35 .

[jgomezish]

Where can I sign?

[Beastfoot]

Signed

[dchalf10]

Agreed

[tonnactus]

Ravellion wrote...

Yeah, this really screws up Thane, who has a poor ammo power for the higher difficulties anyway. So 'Signed'.

X+A trick...

[Xanfaus]

tonnactus wrote...

X+A trick...

That works great if you know about the problem before maxing out an ammo power, but after that there is no option other than not using some combinations of allies.

[implodinggoat]

Xanfaus wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

X+A trick...

That works great if you know about the problem before maxing out an ammo power, but after that there is no option other than not using some combinations of allies.

You can look into the 360 save editor, which lets you do all sort of neat stuff.  I'm pretty sure it has an option for reassigning your allies skill points.

http://social.biowar...index/2277020/1

Once I find out exactly how to do it, I'll add instructions to the OP.  I'm just now getting into the save editting though so I'm not certain on the specifics yet.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 20 avril 2010 - 03:39 .

[Xanfaus]

implodinggoat wrote...

You can look into the 360 save editor, which lets you do all sort of neat stuff. 

Thanks for letting me know about this. I was well aware of Gibbed's efforts in modding the PC version but I did not know that there was an xbox version; converted by XanderChaos no less.

I looked at the thread, but I think I will wait until you give a more condensed version of the steps needed. 

[implodinggoat]

Xanfaus wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

You can look into the 360 save editor, which lets you do all sort of neat stuff. 

Thanks for letting me know about this. I was well aware of Gibbed's efforts in modding the PC version but I did not know that there was an xbox version; converted by XanderChaos no less.

I looked at the thread, but I think I will wait until you give a more condensed version of the steps needed. 

Not sure if you saw them; but Javierbezago added some pictures onto the original post showing what to do step by step.   If you have any further questions post them on the thread or send a message to Darth_Trethon,  he's the expert when it comes to modding the 360.

Oh and by the way I checked and the save editor does indeed have an option which will let you redistribute your squad member's points however you want.

We're still figuring things out; but at present we also know how to add credits, add power cells, add medigel, add resources (no more scanning), equip any weapon to Shepard provided you have training in that weapon class (so you can have a Vanguard with a Revenant if you want), equip any weapon to a squad member, add Paragon and Renegade points so that you can pass every speech check with ease, make your eyes look like the Illusive Man's and some other stuff I can't remember.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 23 avril 2010 - 07:18 .

[Genesiis]

hmm, should I spend my money on ME3? For me it will depend on a patch for ME2, which I think won't happen at all!





The end times will come not with a bang, but with a <sigh>

[implodinggoat]

Christina Norman sent me a response to my message, which I appreciated. Namely...

"We're aware of the issue that's all I can say, patches are complicated!" - Christina Norman.

Hopefully, that means that its somewhere on their itinerary for things to patch. That said, don't take Christina's comment as a promise that it's going to get done anytime soon and certainly don't take it as an indication that it will be in the next patch.

Still the fact that she recognizes its an issue that should be addressed is somewhat encouraging.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 02 mai 2010 - 03:47 .

[Atmosfear3]

implodinggoat wrote...

Christina Norman sent me a response to my message, which I appreciated. Namely...

"We're aware of the issue that's all I can say, patches are complicated!" - Christina Norman.

Hopefully, that means that its somewhere on their itinerary for things to patch. That said, don't take Christina's comment as a promise that it's going to get done anytime soon and certainly don't take it as an indication that it will be in the next patch.

Still the fact that she recognizes its an issue that should be addressed is somewhat encouraging.

I wouldn't hold my breath.  Just because they recognize a problem doesn't mean they will fix it.  Just look at DA:O, its been months and they've yet to patch any fixes for glaring issues.  In fact Christina's statement is more doubtful than it is hopeful.

[Mykel54]

Signed. Please fix this issue if you can. If not at least let us respec our points so we don´t have to pick the ammo power (garrus/thane for example) and avoid this bug.

[implodinggoat]

A tad off topic; but still related to ammo powers. 

I've been thinking about it and at this point I'd like to see Bioware actually change the properties of two of the ammo powers in the game namely the some what redundant Armor Piercing Ammo and of course the utter crap which is Thane's Shredder Ammo.  There is probably a snowball's chance in hell of ever seeing this sort of patch for ME2; but at the very least we can consider what sort of ammo powers we'd like to see in ME3. 

Armor Piercing Ammo: 

Critique:  Armor Piercing Ammo is a highly redundant power since its effectiveness against armor isn't substantially superior to the effectiveness of Incendiary ammo which also panics organic enemies and stops health regeneration or Warp ammo which is also effective against barriers.  Since it does do bonus damage to the health of both organic and synthetic enemies it is actually the best ammo against, Fenris Mechs and Loki Mechs; but that's a pretty limited field (Disruptor ammo is better against YMIR mechs since it works on shields, synthetic health and it stuns the YMIR once its armor is gone).

What Would Have Been Better:  In my opinion Bioware should have given Garrus an ammo power more similar to warp ammo that was effective against barriers and shields.  Such an ammo power would have been far more useful since it would give players with Incendiary ammo (Vanguards in particular) a complimentary ammo power that would work against both of the protection types their ammo is ineffective against in the same way which Warp ammo naturally compliments disruptor ammo.  An ammo that was effective against shields and barriers would also be a better fit for Garrus since its effectiveness against shields would compliment his Overload ability.

Alternative Ammo Concept fo Garrus: 

Proton Ammo:  Effective Against Shields, Barriers and health (organic and synthetic).

Level 1:                         +15%     Against shields, barriers and health (organic and synthetic).
Level 2:                         +25%     Against shields, barriers and health (organic and synthetic).
Level 3:                         +35%     Against shields, barriers and health (organic and synthetic).
Level 4   (Squad) :      +35%     Against shields, barriers and health (organic and synthetic).
Level 4   (Heavy)  :      +50%     Against shields, barriers and health (organic and synthetic).


Shredder Ammo: 

Critique:  Easily takes the title for most worthless power in the game though since unlocking it can actually make Thane LESS POWERFUL since the AI will have Thane equip the ammo in place of far more effective ammo squad
powers.   Shredder ammo is only effective against the health of unprotected organic enemies and though it does a lot of bonus damage against organic health it doesn't stun enemies and it doesn't stop health regeneration .  In contrast, Armor piercing ammo is nearly as effective against the health of organic enemies and is also effective 
the health of synthetic enemies as well as armor.  Incendiary ammo is nearly as effective against the health of organic enemies is also effective against armor and will both panic an organic enemy and stop their health regeneration.  Warp ammo is also effective against organic health as well as armor and barriers.  And finally cryo ammo is far more effective against unprotected organic and synthetics enemies since it will freeze them in place then shatter them into a million pieces. Thus, there is simply no situation where Shredder ammo is truly the best option.  In short Shredder Ammo sucks.

What Would Have Been Better:   Ideally Thane should have been given an ammo power similar to Cryo Ammo
which does extra damage against all unrpotected enemies and has a stun effect.  Such an ammo power would have given classes without an ammo power (Sentinels, Engineers, and Adepts) a viable ammo power that would
help against all enemy types.

Alternative Ammo Concept:

Lightning Ammo:   Stuns unprotected enemies and deals damage over time to organic and synthetic health.
Aesthetically enemies seize up as though effected by neural shock, while electricity courses through them (like the effect from the Arc Projector)   

Level 1:                    Stun Duration: 3 seconds  and +20% over 3 seconds against health (organic and synthetic).
Level 2:                    Stun Duration: 4 seconds  and +30% over 3 seconds against health (organic and synthetic).
Level 3:                    Stun Duration: 5 seconds  and +40% over 3 seconds against health (organic and synthetic).
Level 4:  (Squad) : Stun Duration: 5 seconds  and +40% over 3 seconds against health (organic and synthetic).
Level 4   (Heavy)  : Stun Duration: 7 seconds  and +55% over 3 seconds against health (organic and synthetic).

Modifié par implodinggoat, 08 mai 2010 - 06:36 .

[TudorWolf]

The whole Ammo powers thing is very annoying alright, especially if you give multiple squadmates the squad version of ammo powers they may have as well as fielding one yourself.

For example, I was playing an Adept with Squad Warp Ammo, and on Grunt's loyalty mission brought Zaeed along too. Grunt had Inferno Ammo and Zaeed Squad Disruptor. Naturally, Warp ammo is the desired one here, as Klixen resist fire attacks.

What do I find happening? Grunt always goes Inferno, and Zaeed constantly overwrites everything with utterly useless (for this mission) Disruptor. Suffice to say I was not happy.

So, signed

[Cody]

I...never had this problem o_0. Every time I activate a squad ammo power (such as Cyro rounds) My crew never activates their ammo powers. Even when I let them use their powers freely. First I have them activate their powers then I activate the squad ammo power. Then I activate the one I want to use...and then boom. Done. They never go against the order and turn their ammo power on. If anything....unless i tell them to turn it on they NEVER do. Am I the only one that doesn't have the problem here? Lol? Or am I reading this wrong?

[implodinggoat]

CodyMelch wrote...

I...never had this problem o_0. Every time I activate a squad ammo power (such as Cyro rounds) My crew never activates their ammo powers. Even when I let them use their powers freely. First I have them activate their powers then I activate the squad ammo power. Then I activate the one I want to use...and then boom. Done. They never go against the order and turn their ammo power on. If anything....unless i tell them to turn it on they NEVER do. Am I the only one that doesn't have the problem here? Lol? Or am I reading this wrong?

Observations on Squad AI's use of Ammo Powers

You seem to be unique in that experience, although using cryo ammo might make the problem less apparent if the squad AI prioritizes it over other ammo powers.   What I have generally experienced is that a squad member will activate their ammo power whenever they target an enemy who has a form of protection or health which is vulnerable to their ammo power regardless of whether the ammo power you have them using at the moment is more effective.

For example if you take Garrus on a mission against Geth and activate squad disruptor ammo he won't override it with his own unless he targets a Geth which has armor (Geth Primes or the Colossus) and then only once the Geth's shields are down and its armor is exposed.    In contrast if you take Garrus on a mission against Blue Suns mercs and activate squad disruptor ammo he will override with his own ammo as soon as he targets a merc who's shields are down since his ammo has a bonus against health, the problem with this being that while his ammo was effective against the health of the one unshielded merc he was shooting once that merc drops his ammo is considerably less effective against the 20 other shielded mercs who are still shooting at you.

Judging by Tudorwolf's experience with Zaeed and Grunt on Grunt's loyalty mission I would guess that what was happening was that Grunt would activate his Incendiary Ammo whenever he targeted a Klixen with armor and Zaeed would activate his Disruptor Ammo whenever he targeted a Klixen without armor since Klixen are resistant to fire damage and the AI thus judged Incendiary Ammo the better choice against armored Klixen and Disruptor ammo the superior choice against an unarmored Kilxen thus resulting in Grunt and Zaeed entering into a tug of war over who's ammo should take priority.

If you've mainly been using Cryo Ammo then that would seem to indicate that the Squad AI prioritizes Cryo Ammo over all others against enemies without protection (which would make sense since it is the best ammo against enemies without protection) and thus your squad would only activate their ammo power when targeting an enemy with a protection type their ammo was effective against.  I'd also hazard a guess that you were playing on Veteran or lower difficulty where average enemies don't have any form of protection, so you encountered enemies whose protection would trigger the squad AI to activate their ammo powers less frequently.

RE:  Ordering a Squad Member to Activate Their Ammo Power, Before Activating Your Desired Ammo.

Your method of having the squad activate their ammo power first, then having the player override it with their desired  squad ammo power intrigues me.  I instinctively start each mission by activating the squad ammo power I desire and I can't recall ever ordering a squad member to activate their ammo before I activate my own.

If your method really works as you say it does, it would be a really good find since it would still allow your to order your team to use their ammo power when its beneficial, without having them constanty override your desired ammo.  This would be preferable to the current fix which entails taking all the points out of the squad member's ammo power and thus being unable to activate their ammo power when it would be beneficial.

I'm wondering though did you only observe this behavior when you had squad power useage set to active or did you also observe it when you had it set to "defensive and ammo powers only"? 

I always play with active power use off, so having it turned on might ironically make your squad less active when it comes to activating their ammo power.  If you have had active power use on my guess would be that the squad AI isn't activating the ammo power since it prioritizes using the character's other powers over using the ammo power and thus the AI never gets the chance to activate an ammo power since the AI will invariably prioritize activating one of the character's other powers before using an ammo power and thus wil never be in a situation where they will use an ammo power since the AI will always activate one of the other powers as soon as the character's cooldown cooldown periord elapses.

Regardless, later tonight I'll give both your method of activating a squad member's ammo power first a try as well as playing a little bit with active power use turned on to see what happens

[mi55ter]

Agreed

[Cody]

I'd also hazard a guess that you were playing on Veteran or lower
difficulty where average enemies don't have any form of protection, so
you encountered enemies whose protection would trigger the squad AI to
activate their ammo powers less frequently.

Actually I play on Insanity(otherwise the game would be even easier). I just have them use Cyro ammo because It's good when I have already striped enemies of their protection and then they freeze them, since they usually attack the enemies that I attack unless I tell them other wise.

implodinggoat wrote...

RE:  Ordering a Squad Member to Activate Their Ammo Power, Before Activating Your Desired Ammo.

Your method of having the squad activate their ammo power first, then having the player override it with their desired  squad ammo power intrigues me.  I instinctively start each mission by activating the squad ammo power I desire and I can't recall ever ordering a squad member to activate their ammo before I activate my own.

I always have to order them to activate their power, otherwise they don't do it. Though their have been times in combat they hads turned it on themselves but that is usually a last resort for them.

I'm wondering though did you only observe this behavior when you had squad power useage set to active or did you also observe it when you had it set to "defensive and ammo powers only"?

I always have their behaviour set to active.

I always play with active power use off, so having it turned on might ironically make your squad less active when it comes to activating their ammo power.  If you have had active power use on my guess would be that the squad AI isn't activating the ammo power since it prioritizes using the character's other powers over using the ammo power and thus the AI never gets the chance to activate an ammo power since the AI will invariably prioritize activating one of the character's other powers before using an ammo power and thus wil never be in a situation where they will use an ammo power since the AI will always activate one of the other powers as soon as the character's cooldown cooldown periord elapses.

Regardless, later tonight I'll give both your method of activating a squad member's ammo power first a try as well as playing a little bit with active power use turned on to see what happens

when a mission starts I always activate either their ammo rounds or my squad rounds before combat starts. Then I would not have to worry it. But like I said once I activate the Squad ammo they always leave it on and never switch.

Also I usually just activate their ammo rounds and let them use it because they can come in handy. I only use squad Cyro for those who do not have an ammo power and for the reason I said above. But yea even for those who have their own ammo powers, once the squad round is on they don't touch any other ammo round unless i have them do so. I hope this works for you, I never realised that this problem was even here to begin with o_o