60 réponses à ce sujet

[nofanboy]

I think a good compromise would have been the use of a universal cool down meter. What I mean is having a bar with a limited amount of "free" power usage say 30 seconds. You can use this 30 secs of instant cool down for any combination of powers, allowing you spam abilities at the start of battle (if you so choose). This way you could use barrier, throw, singularity, warp, and shockwave instantly. However, then you'd have to wait for the meter to recover, which it would so at a very, very slow rate. This way, you can't infinitely spam. It would also add strategy because there would be situations where using all you power instantly would be beneficial (short combat encounters) but other times when doing so would severely handicap you for the rest of combat (long battles).



Also, the class skill trees bonus could either lower cool downs on individual powers (like they do now) or increase the universal cool down meter you have from say a base of 30 secs to a max of 60 secs. Either way, it would increase the amount of spamming you could do while still keeping limits.



Just a suggestion.

[Aetas Mutuo]

It did suck that I could not use incinerate while I was cloaked. I think that all powers should have individual cooldowns, it makes more sense to me and makes the game play more fun.

Having all powers cool down at once seems like somehting that is only useful when playing online against other people in a Halo or GOW style shooter. If it is a single player game, why nuke it? You can compensate by making the game harder.

[Blind Lark]

I think it'd be fun to combine being invisible and throwing fireballs.

Modifié par Blind Lark, 17 février 2010 - 06:08 .

[Looy]

goldenbender wrote...

It would be interesting to speed up the combat by having two separate cooldowns for tech and biotic abilities, and no cooldown at all for medi-gel and ammo powers. Maybe in ME3?

I think offensive, defensive, ammp and specials having seperate cooldowns would be more balanced from a gameplay POV.

[SwiftSweeper]

beserker7 wrote...

GCreature wrote...

The Me1 system wasn't fine. You'd just spam all your powers at the start of the fight, then spend the rest of the fight using fire arms, there was no thought involved. At least in ME2 you have to make tactical decisions on when and how to use the powers.

The ME2 system is cover & shoot away all the defenses then finish with powers only, if your playing on Hardcore/Insanity.  The ME1 system you were able to mix it up more, as talents like Throw, Pull/Lift, Singularity,  worked again armor and shields when you got there skill levels high enough.

It's not that I think its the wrose thing to go to universal, but they should have been more keen on shorting some of the cooldown times on certain talents like Barrier. Removing the Assault talent that reset all your powers from ME1 didn't help.

Singularity works on enemies with defenses.  It locks them in a place and starts to strip away their defenses for a while.  You also have Warp which works on Armor/Barrier.  You also have access to two squad members, who should give you access to two more abilities to use on protected enimies.  Morever, you can take Shileld Drain/Reave as bonus ability if you really feel that you need more powers against enemies with protection.  As result, you have 4-5 powers to use on enemies with portection.  There are only three powers that seriously gimped or do not work on protected enemies such as Throw, Pull, and ehh Shockwave.  Finally, that is wrong with using your guns as Adept from time to time.  There is whole system of ammo powers and different gun resistances that you be missing out if you don't.

I like universal cooldown in ME2 a lot more than separate cooldowns in ME1.  I admit that when I started playing ME2  initially, I though that universal cooldown system was a bad idea.  However, the more I played the more I realized how much better the new system is actually is.  Sure, it was fun to go into a room as Adept in ME1 and destroy everyone, but it got old really quicklly for me.  In ME1, I just ended up spamming my powers without giving it much thought.  Universal cooldown in ME2 forces me to think tacticaly.  It forces me to choose a power that will be the best in terms of cooldown and utillity in a given situation.  It also forces me to think about my squad composition a lot more.  This not only aplies to biotics either.  I had to do the same when I was playing as Soldier also.  Granted, Soldier has less active abilites to choose from, so it is simpler.

I like that some biotic powers do not work on protected enimies.  It adds depth to the combat, and like I said ealier, you still have plenty of powers to use even on protected enimies. If you are really irritated with enemies having protection, pick Veteran and below and go to town.  Insanity/Hardcore difficulties are supposed to be hard.  I like that Insanity/Harcore difficulties force players to change their tactics.  It has been a while since I played ME1, but I do not remember much difference between Normal and Hardcore in ME1 apart from increased health/shield strength and krogans using immunity a lot more.  I do remember a lot of people complaining that Insanity in ME1 was just borring grind though.

Finally, I do not feel that Adept is gimped.  I played through ME2 as Soldier on Veteran, and I am now playing as Adept on Hardcore.   Adept has much higher learning curve than Soldier imo, but once you get through it, it can be powerful class.   Indeed, there are some areas where I die more as Adept, but there are also areas where I go through much quicker on Hardcore than I did as Soldier on Veteran.

Biotics in ME1 were fun but overpowered becuse  one could just spam them without much thought.  As result, they got old quickly for me.  In ME2, biotics were tonned down.  Now, it actually takes some tactics and learning to use them effectevly.  I prefer ME2 approach by far.

[Aetas Mutuo]

I am of the opinion that taking something cool and nuking it to balance the game is a bad idea. There are other ways to compensate.

Why is my ammo power cooldown be tied to a biotic power cooldown? It is the shortest route to balancing combat.

[JJDrakken]

They should make your special power you can learn from your squadmates then on a seperate timer, I think that could go a long way in helping.



JJ

[sinosleep]

Aetas Mutuo wrote...

I am of the opinion that taking something cool and nuking it to balance the game is a bad idea. There are other ways to compensate.
Why is my ammo power cooldown be tied to a biotic power cooldown? It is the shortest route to balancing combat.

Maybe they nuked it cause they DIDN'T think it was cool? I'm sorry, but I don't see how the garbage that was featured in the video I linked too could be considered cool. In ME 1 adepts could waltz into a room and stun lock 10 guys for minutes at a time. That's not cool, that's broken. 

[JJDrakken]

This a single player game, who cares what an Adept did in game 1? Honestly, are you that jaded & jealous of ME1, since we are ME2, with characters you'll never play with, because its a SINGLE PLAYER GAME, you feel need to spout hate at other peoples fun in a SINGLE PLAYER game.



I could understand this in an MMO especially in PvP.



JJ

[Awesome Helmet]

what the hell. why is there a cooldown on medigel? it must be like taking only so many advils in a certain time er something.



global cooldowns are the downfall of ME2. tech and biotics share cooldowns? good one bioware!



seriously, after the first person tested ME2, how did they not think "this is a bad idea." i can understand if they are trying to do something different, but why fix something thats not broken. dont cram all these new ideas into a new video game. you know what works and what doesnt work, so stick with what works. and global cooldowns is not one of those things that works.



the weirdest thing is that biotics were the funnest part about ME. people would argue there adept is the best adept, or their vangaurd would destroy my adept. are there any threads about classes? i know theres a class/build forum, but its not even needed because ME2 is no ME1.

[sinosleep]

JJDrakken wrote...

This a single player game, who cares what an Adept did in game 1? Honestly, are you that jaded & jealous of ME1, since we are ME2, with characters you'll never play with, because its a SINGLE PLAYER GAME, you feel need to spout hate at other peoples fun in a SINGLE PLAYER game.

I could understand this in an MMO especially in PvP.

JJ

The OP obviously cares, since that's what they are comparing it to, ME 1. And being a single player game doesn't have squat to do with it. I mean, if you want to make that ridiculous argument I guess all single player games should come with a debug mode, where you character is god and can do whatever they want. Oh wait, the fact that it's a single player game doesn't in any way shape or form mean that it should come devoid of all challenge or properly functioning gameplay mechanics. 

And jealous? Seriously? Jealous? How can you be jealous of a video game? LOL. 

[WillieStyle]

sinosleep wrote...

JJDrakken wrote...

This a single player game, who cares what an Adept did in game 1? Honestly, are you that jaded & jealous of ME1, since we are ME2, with characters you'll never play with, because its a SINGLE PLAYER GAME, you feel need to spout hate at other peoples fun in a SINGLE PLAYER game.

I could understand this in an MMO especially in PvP.

JJ

The OP obviously cares, since that's what they are comparing it to, ME 1. And being a single player game doesn't have squat to do with it. I mean, if you want to make that ridiculous argument I guess all single player games should come with a debug mode, where you character is god and can do whatever they want. Oh wait, the fact that it's a single player game doesn't in any way shape or form mean that it should come devoid of all challenge or properly functioning gameplay mechanics. 

And jealous? Seriously? Jealous? How can you be jealous of a video game? LOL. 

Here's an example of two people with radically different views not getting eachother.

-Sinosleep wants to be challenged while playing all classes
-JJDrakken wants to feel powerful with his favourite class.

Sinosleep can't understand why JJDraken would want to see the overpowered crowd-control abilities of the mE1 Adept return in ME2.
JJDrakken cannot understand how anyone who doesn't want his favourite class to be overpowered could be motivated by anything but jealousy.

[sinosleep]

Math IS hard. Well, anything other than basic math and algebra. I was good at algebra, geometry honors ruined my life though.

[mundus66]

Removing the universal cooldown would make all the power classes broken again, like they where in ME1.

One thing which bugs me though are powers with really long cooldown, makes you unable to use anything for so long. If they where to change anything, maybe they should put a cap on the universal cooldown to like 6 sec or something. If a power has longer cooldown than that, every other power should be ready after 6 seconds, while that is still on cooldown.

[Scottthesnow]

mundus66 wrote...

Removing the universal cooldown would make all the power classes broken again, like they where in ME1.

One thing which bugs me though are powers with really long cooldown, makes you unable to use anything for so long. If they where to change anything, maybe they should put a cap on the universal cooldown to like 6 sec or something. If a power has longer cooldown than that, every other power should be ready after 6 seconds, while that is still on cooldown.

With a brief global cooldown, while still maintaining individual cooldowns.  Sure, World of Warcraft uses that and it works pretty well. 

[Stoko981]

Wow, this is a really hard firefight. Time for some Fortification. Oops, I forgot, now I can't change the type of ammo my gun is using for 12 seconds. I mean, I can shoot still, and I can reload a new thermal clip. But thanks to my handy dandy Fortification, I'm now incapable of fiddling with the little toggle switch on the side of my gun. I must regain my strength, build up my reservoir of energy. In 12 seconds, I'll show that little toggle switch who's boss and switch to the right kind of ammo for the enemy that just appeared. You just wait, large enemy. You just wait.

[dkini]

Perhaps a system like this would be a good compromise. I'll use the vanguard as an example: So my idea is being able to use two powers at once e.g charge and pull.

Now to use these two together you must use the pause system, so you see a guy without defences and cc him with pull whilst charging to a different enemy. But their cooldowns are added to each other, so if charge is 6 seconds and pull is 3 seconds the global cooldown is now 9 secs.



I think this maintains the balance and also allows for tactical gameplay with combining squad powers.

[mundus66]

Scottthesnow wrote...

mundus66 wrote...

Removing the universal cooldown would make all the power classes broken again, like they where in ME1.

One thing which bugs me though are powers with really long cooldown, makes you unable to use anything for so long. If they where to change anything, maybe they should put a cap on the universal cooldown to like 6 sec or something. If a power has longer cooldown than that, every other power should be ready after 6 seconds, while that is still on cooldown.

With a brief global cooldown, while still maintaining individual cooldowns.  Sure, World of Warcraft uses that and it works pretty well. 

The global cooldown system in wow is not the same. And pretty much every game uses it. Otherwise you would be able to use every spell at the same time. Even ME1 has a brief global cooldown of 1 second or something.

[Awesome Helmet]

*heres how you fix the problem*



make biotics work on armor.



no more universal cooldown. im not against a "power bar" you can drain your powers from and have that limit usage, but a universal cooldown is a stupid idea. especially counting everything as one like medigel, biotics, and tech powers.



i actually think shepard should start off with no powers and no weapons and then level themselves with whatever powers/weapons they wanted/had XP for. but thats a whole other story. having a universal cooldown is horrible. a class with more then one active ability cant take advantage of having more then one ability. take the adept for example. all those biotics, but a soldier with slam is just as good at biotics, more importantly CC.



hers my impresion of an adept....



"warp, shoot-shoot, warp, shoot-shoot, warp, shoot-shoot, pull, *enemy dies before pull gets to them*, restart as infiltrator."

[coinop25]

Thanks but no. Barrier is much less of an uber power than it once was, but I must admit that the first time I realized that the "slowly closing circle" on my crosshairs was a cooldown for ALL my powers, I was ecstatic. Universal cooldown means less invincibility for biotics, and less freezing the game in a radial menu to check on power status. These are good things. And it's not as if you can't combo your own powers anymore, what with powers like Pull, Throw, and Warp being so quick in cooldown. It just means that powers like Barrier are more useful for last-minute shield refill than for constant invincibility, and players who want super armor need to play Sentinel.

[Kaji-chan]

SwiftSweeper wrote...

I like that some biotic powers do not work on protected enimies.  It adds depth to the combat, and like I said ealier, you still have plenty of powers to use even on protected enimies. If you are really irritated with enemies having protection, pick Veteran and below and go to town.  Insanity/Hardcore difficulties are supposed to be hard.  I like that Insanity/Harcore difficulties force players to change their tactics.  It has been a while since I played ME1, but I do not remember much difference between Normal and Hardcore in ME1 apart from increased health/shield strength and krogans using immunity a lot more.  I do remember a lot of people complaining that Insanity in ME1 was just borring grind though.

I agree. I'm running through on insanity as a vanguard, and I was surprised by how much tactics I needed to use just to survive the missions. My first playthrough on veteran as a vanguard was easy enough to where I hardly ever used my squad member powers, but insanity mode forces you to use tactics. Love it.

[Kilmiina]

Sure it's tough that you can't hot-swap ammo types, pop a barrier and warp your way through traffic as fast as your fat little fingers can hit the buttons. Then again, maybe it's because the people who made this game wanted people to actually have to use that lump three feet above their arse and think tactically about what they're going to have to do to drag down an enemy. To be honest, you don't even have to think tactically on lower difficulty levels. In fact, if you don't feel like a god playing through this game on normal or veteran, "ur not doin it rite." Even on Insanity you have to make mistakes in order to get you or your squad killed.

Universal cooldowns help:
- make combat easier to manage (only one cooldown to follow)
- make combat more tactical (protip: make sure you reload BEFORE you blow your adrenaline rush...just sayin')
- make your squadmates relevant (no more boring e-peen vids of solo adepts stun-locking their way through insanity)
- make combat more about following the action on the screen than about watching your hot bar (a la WoW, EQ, etc. You wanna play a game like WoW, sub up and spam 1..2..3..1 until you go blue in the face)

Modifié par Kilmiina, 18 février 2010 - 04:05 .

[JJDrakken]

WillieStyle wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

JJDrakken wrote...

This a single player game, who cares what an Adept did in game 1? Honestly, are you that jaded & jealous of ME1, since we are ME2, with characters you'll never play with, because its a SINGLE PLAYER GAME, you feel need to spout hate at other peoples fun in a SINGLE PLAYER game.

I could understand this in an MMO especially in PvP.

JJ

The OP obviously cares, since that's what they are comparing it to, ME 1. And being a single player game doesn't have squat to do with it. I mean, if you want to make that ridiculous argument I guess all single player games should come with a debug mode, where you character is god and can do whatever they want. Oh wait, the fact that it's a single player game doesn't in any way shape or form mean that it should come devoid of all challenge or properly functioning gameplay mechanics. 

And jealous? Seriously? Jealous? How can you be jealous of a video game? LOL. 

Here's an example of two people with radically different views not getting eachother.

-Sinosleep wants to be challenged while playing all classes
-JJDrakken wants to feel powerful with his favourite class.

Sinosleep can't understand why JJDraken would want to see the overpowered crowd-control abilities of the mE1 Adept return in ME2.
JJDrakken cannot understand how anyone who doesn't want his favourite class to be overpowered could be motivated by anything but jealousy.

Your wrong, My Favorite class is Vangaurd or Sentinel.

In ME1, I hated playing an Adept & Hate in ME2, dont make assumptions man.  But I beleive Biotics should be on thier own cooldowns, Techs on thier own, ammo on thier own, the unique power you learn from squadmates on its own.

Try again

JJ

[JJDrakken]

sinosleep wrote...

JJDrakken wrote...

This a single player game, who cares what an Adept did in game 1? Honestly, are you that jaded & jealous of ME1, since we are ME2, with characters you'll never play with, because its a SINGLE PLAYER GAME, you feel need to spout hate at other peoples fun in a SINGLE PLAYER game.

I could understand this in an MMO especially in PvP.

JJ

The OP obviously cares, since that's what they are comparing it to, ME 1. And being a single player game doesn't have squat to do with it. I mean, if you want to make that ridiculous argument I guess all single player games should come with a debug mode, where you character is god and can do whatever they want. Oh wait, the fact that it's a single player game doesn't in any way shape or form mean that it should come devoid of all challenge or properly functioning gameplay mechanics. 



JJ

And jealous? Seriously? Jealous? How can you be jealous of a video game? LOL. 

IF You learn to remember & read, I am the Original OP


JJ

Modifié par JJDrakken, 18 février 2010 - 04:04 .

[sinosleep]

I believe that one, adding original before OP is redundant, and two, maybe you shouldn't include things you don't care about in the OP

JJDrakken wrote...



I think should go out the window & have the powers have their own cooldowns, like in Mass Effect 1.

I feel would broaden up classes like Adept & Sentinel bit more.



Thoughts folks?



JJ