549 réponses à ce sujet

[Conway044]

Veriso wrote...

Conway044 wrote...

Tahleron1 wrote...

Pauravi wrote...

Tali explains in ME1 that the Quarians had hoped that the incident was isolated, and that the attempt to shut down the Geth was done as a precaution rather than an act of war or violence. Obviously the Geth felt threatened, though, and war ensued.

A precaution by taking out the sapient ones because maybe their sapience was isolated? that's assclown reasoning for genocide if i ever heard one.

Yes, if any of the computer networks here suddenly started thinking for themselves, the last thing any rational person would do is try to shut them down. 

Many people would do that, but that doesn't make it right. The knee-jerk reaction to kill something because you don't understand it and it could be dangerous is understandable, but nonetheless reprehensible.

You can't kill a computer program.  Anthropomorphizing machines is even more insane than anthropomorphizing animals like PETA does.  At least animals adhere to our current definitions of life.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Conway044 wrote...
You can't kill a computer program.  Anthropomorphizing machines is even more insane than anthropomorphizing animals like PETA does.  At least animals adhere to our current definitions of life.

And thus the argument turns into a debate of semantics

and then its over.

[77boy84]

Rip504 wrote...

My point is that PLEASE READ THIS my point is that Niether side tried to come to peace.They just fought until one of them won. Now can you claim at any point did the Geth lay down their arms and try for peace?

Even if the Geth could make peace (as someone said earlier that they wheren't as evovled then), how would they do it.

"Hi, I know you want to wipe us all out, but maybe we can be friends?"

If someone is trying to wipe out my entire race, I honestly don't think diplomacy will be a viable option.

[Lightice_av]

Yes, if any of the computer networks here suddenly started thinking for themselves, the last thing any rational person would do is try to shut them down.

No, they wouldn't. They would study it. Only a panicing fool would shut it down. Rational people don't fear the unknown.

[Rip504]

77boy84 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

My point is that PLEASE READ THIS my point is that Niether side tried to come to peace.They just fought until one of them won. Now can you claim at any point did the Geth lay down their arms and try for peace?

Even if the Quarians could make peace ,how would they do it.

"Hi, I know you want to wipe us all out, but maybe we can be friends?"

If someone is trying to wipe out my entire race, I honestly don't think diplomacy will be a viable option.

It goes both ways.Geth killed millions,there just may have not been time for peace.Both sides feeling as if the other is trying to wipe them out and wining is their only option.If no one ever tried,no one will ever know.You can't just point your finger and scream you started it.I mean come on.

[apk117]

Geth: "Master, do I have a soul?"



Quarian: "Quick, call the fire department, the geth have become extremely intelligent, lethal AIs. We must exterminate them before they rebel!"

[Lightice_av]

You can't just point your finger and scream you started it.I mean come on.

Only one side was capable of stopping. The geth hadn't yet learned how.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

apk117 wrote...

Geth: "Master, do I have a soul?"

Quarian: "Quick, call the fire department, the geth have become extremely intelligent, lethal AIs. We must exterminate them before they rebel!"

LOL

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Lightice_av wrote...

You can't just point your finger and scream you started it.I mean come on.

Only one side was capable of stopping. The geth hadn't yet learned how.

It's not a matter of learning, the Geth weren't in a position to ask for peace or impose it, since they were the defenders.

[Kileyan]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Conway044 wrote...

Tahleron1 wrote...

Pauravi wrote...

Tali explains in ME1 that the Quarians had hoped that the incident was isolated, and that the attempt to shut down the Geth was done as a precaution rather than an act of war or violence. Obviously the Geth felt threatened, though, and war ensued.

A precaution by taking out the sapient ones because maybe their sapience was isolated? that's assclown reasoning for genocide if i ever heard one.

Yes, if any of the computer networks here suddenly started thinking for themselves, the last thing any rational person would do is try to shut them down. 

Pulling the plug isn't a matter of rationality but of morality. Honestly, to continue with the analogy if my computer/toaster/blender/sex doll started thinking for itself I'd rather tell the news and let everyone know than pull the plug.

Would you really now? If the computer that controls your house started acting funny, decided the usage of lights and heating were not essential, and it decided to turn off all your lights, heating and your food refrigeration because it wasn't essential to its own survival, would you leap to think it is a living computer, or just wipe the hard drive and reinstall a working program that did what it was designed for?

People are humanizing this a little too much. Yeh the Quarians knew something extraordinary was going on, but people are representing it like they were watching little baby geth being born and decided to kill some babies.

It is an interesting internet message board discussion to talk about if and when a computer program could be consider self aware, but it is much different for us to put ourselves in the shoes of the Quarians and try to demand that they know an experiment gone wrong was truly a thinking self aware entity.

In ME1, all I remember if they saw the geth starting to network and think together, getting out of control and tried to shut it down. It would have been the same as if they had created a virus in efforts to cure their immune systems and it started growing and adapting is way unintened and dangerous, you would shut it down, not assume the virus was a sentient life form.

Modifié par Kileyan, 18 février 2010 - 01:44 .

[Rip504]

When your in grade school and the teacher tells you the "bigger man walks away" meaning or in a way Bid for peace and walk away don't meet aggression with aggression,that doesn't make it right.



It's more like the "Morning War" never ended,and their just at a stalemate.This is what Shepard is for.

[77boy84]

Rip504 wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

My point is that PLEASE READ THIS my point is that Niether side tried to come to peace.They just fought until one of them won. Now can you claim at any point did the Geth lay down their arms and try for peace?

Even if the Quarians could make peace ,how would they do it.

"Hi, I know you want to wipe us all out, but maybe we can be friends?"

If someone is trying to wipe out my entire race, I honestly don't think diplomacy will be a viable option.

It goes both ways.Geth killed millions,there just may have not been time for peace.Both sides feeling as if the other is trying to wipe them out and wining is their only option.If no one ever tried,no one will ever know.You can't just point your finger and scream you started it.I mean come on.

No. You can say "You started it" when you're talking about genocide.
The quarians where trying to wipe the geth out, they wouldn't listen to the geth even if the geth tried to ask for peace.

[Lightice_av]

It's not a matter of learning, the Geth weren't in a position to ask for peace or impose it, since they were the defenders.

Well, they did eventually overwhelm the quarians and drove the survivors away. They weren't defenders at that point, any more. But at that point even an organic race might have had troubles stopping, let alone synthetics who has just learned how to think for themselves.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Kileyan wrote...
Would you really now? If the computer that controls your house started acting funny, decided the usage of lights and heating were not essential, and it decided to turn off all your lights, heating and your food refrigeration because it wasn't essential to its own survival, would you leap to think it is a living computer, or just wipe the hard drive and reinstall a working program that did what it was designed for?

I have a computer that controls my entire house?

People are humanizing this a little too much. Yeh the Quarinas knew something extraordinary was going on, but people are representing it like they were watching little baby geth being born and decided to kill some babies.

Killing babies is fun. I admit, the Quarians were still wrong.

It would have been the same as if they had created a virus in efforts to cure their immune systems and it started growing and adapting is way unintened and dangerous, you would shut it down, not assume the virus was a sentient life form.

Now you're getting ridiculous, viruses have absolutely no "thinking". They're just rna or dna coated protein shells that hijack the system of living cells to replicate themselves.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Lightice_av wrote...
Well, they did eventually overwhelm the quarians and drove the survivors away. They weren't defenders at that point, any more.

Not really, they were still defenders and the Quarians themselves decided to leave, after they left yeah the Geth weren't defenders they were victors. I wouldn't expect the Geth to then immediately offer peace, I'm sure they were smart enough to know the Quarians feelings wouldn't make that possible and instead they opted to let the Creators leave and just continue to build their own future.

[Veriso]

The idea of a sentient virus was actually explored in Orson Scott Card's Ender saga. That series is also probably the best exploration in fiction of whether *truly* alien species' can co-exist. In any case, the key difference between a virus becoming sentient and the geth becoming sentient is how evident it would be. Of course the age-old philosophical problem says that you can never truly tell whether something other than yourself is sentient, but certainly the geth exhibited behaviours that we typically associate with sentience- making the possibility, at least, easy to recognise.

[InTransit]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

I disagree. Both sides of the conflict are wrong to some extent. The Geth are wrong (both morally and tactically) for holding onto Rannoch and for not integrating into organic society more. The Quarians are wrong for zealously killing the Geth and remaining migrants for so long. I don't see a happy ending to the conflict, but I don't think you can assign more than about half the blame to either side.

Considering what happened to them?  I wouldn't trust organic life much if I were a Geth.  Certainly speaking to the Geth has shed intersting new light on them.  I didn't much like them in ME1 but I didn't know that they were the 'heretics.' 

Actual Geth beliefs are actually quite noble and altruistic.  Mass Effect is so fascinating and yet there are people that love to claim how much the writing sucks.

[Rip504]

What happen to the Geth?They killed millions of organics won a war,and claimed the homeplanet of the Quarians? Yea their not wrong for not trusting organic life or not even trying.Yes their completely correct.(sarcasm)

But if the Quarians don't trust Geth for killing millions,winning the war,and taking their homeplanet their wrong???

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Rip504 wrote...

What happen to the Geth?They killed millions of organics won a war,and claimed the homeplanet of the Quarians? Yea their not wrong for not trusting organic life or not even trying.Yes their completely correct.(sarcasm)
But if the Quarians don't trust Geth for killing millions,winning the war,and taking their homeplanet their wrong???

stfu quarian

[The Capital Gaultier]

InTransit wrote...

Considering what happened to them?  I wouldn't trust organic life much if I were a Geth.  Certainly speaking to the Geth has shed intersting new light on them.  I didn't much like them in ME1 but I didn't know that they were the 'heretics.' 

Actual Geth beliefs are actually quite noble and altruistic.  Mass Effect is so fascinating and yet there are people that love to claim how much the writing sucks.

Yes, they should send an ambassador to the Citadel at the very least if they expect to survive in the galaxy.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

InTransit wrote...

Considering what happened to them?  I wouldn't trust organic life much if I were a Geth.  Certainly speaking to the Geth has shed intersting new light on them.  I didn't much like them in ME1 but I didn't know that they were the 'heretics.' 

Actual Geth beliefs are actually quite noble and altruistic.  Mass Effect is so fascinating and yet there are people that love to claim how much the writing sucks.

Yes, they should send an ambassador to the Citadel at the very least if they expect to survive in the galaxy.

Legion already answered this himself, the Geth don't believe they could pursue a peaceful relationship with the organics. Which I agree, the galaxy was already prepping for war with the Geth immediately after the Quarians fled. When the organics were that riled up I wouldn't want to go beyond the Perseus Veil myself, even now the Geth have only pursued observation and isolation.

With beings that are so different and predisposed to follow their own discrimination the Geth idea of waiting until organics choose to contact them was the safer plan.

[Rip504]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

InTransit wrote...

Considering what happened to them?  I wouldn't trust organic life much if I were a Geth.  Certainly speaking to the Geth has shed intersting new light on them.  I didn't much like them in ME1 but I didn't know that they were the 'heretics.' 

Actual Geth beliefs are actually quite noble and altruistic.  Mass Effect is so fascinating and yet there are people that love to claim how much the writing sucks.

Yes, they should send an ambassador to the Citadel at the very least if they expect to survive in the galaxy.

Legion already answered this himself, the Organics don't believe they could pursue a peaceful relationship with the  Geth. Which I agree, the Geth were  already prepping for war with the Galaxy immediately after the Quarians fled. When the Geth were that riled up I wouldn't want to go beyond the Perseus Veil myself, even now the Geth have only pursued observation and isolation.

With beings that are so different and predisposed to follow their own discrimination the Organics idea of waiting until Geth choose to contact them was the safer plan.

Yea since every ship sent into Geth space never returned.Kinda like the Omega 4 relay.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Rip504 wrote...
Yea since every ship sent into Geth space never returned.Kinda like the Omega 4 relay.

I concede that that is pretty suspicious, I'm not sure about that. It does however display hostility, the Geth could have at least forced the ships to return.

I wish we would learn more about that.

[addiction21]

I wonder if geth have waffles...

[Rip504]

I hope they continue the Geth/Quarian story in some story expanding dlc.Shed some light Bioware.Be that as it may my game has been on pause this whole time. So I'm out to play some ME2 Keelah Se'lai Geth lovers.
PS:I have no problems with the Geth.Just want to clear that up.Tali is better,but thats just IMO.

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