GnusmasTHX wrote...
Geth are machines, and should have been destroyed, unfortunately the pathetic quarians lost that war.
GnusmasTHX wrote...
talking toasters and accepted annihilation.
GnusmasTHX wrote...
They're so narrow-minded.
CmdrFenix83 wrote...
If they shut them down fast enough, there wouldn't ever have been a Geth race. Just a bunch of faulty machinery that needed to be fixed.
eternalnightmare13 wrote...
The Quarians knew what they were doing when they created the Geth. They ****ed about with AI despite the dangers and got bit in the ass for it. **** the Quarians I hope they get slaughtered in ME3 and I'll help Legion bust their stupid ****ing face shields open!!1!!!!1
eternalnightmare13 wrote...
The Quarians knew what they were doing when they created the Geth. They ****ed about with AI despite the dangers and got bit in the ass for it. **** the Quarians I hope they get slaughtered in ME3 and I'll help Legion bust their stupid ****ing face shields open!!1!!!!1
didymos1120 wrote...
CmdrFenix83 wrote...
If they shut them down fast enough, there wouldn't ever have been a Geth race. Just a bunch of faulty machinery that needed to be fixed.
Yeah, basically, it was a case of "Too much, too late". Unbeknownst to the Quarians, it was too late to stop, and equally unbeknownst, it was effectively an attempt at genocide. Neither side was working with complete information, and unsurprisingly, it turned into a rapidly-escalating bloody mess.
CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Stephenc13 wrote...
Think of it as the third Reich, except the jewish communities fighting back
You would have a point... if the Jewish people were created as nonsapient labor by the Germans and they somehow began to develop sapience... and then Germany freaked out and ordered their shutdowns before they all became sapient... so really... your analogy is just plain aweful.
Stephenc13 wrote...
CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Stephenc13 wrote...
Think of it as the third Reich, except the jewish communities fighting back
You would have a point... if the Jewish people were created as nonsapient labor by the Germans and they somehow began to develop sapience... and then Germany freaked out and ordered their shutdowns before they all became sapient... so really... your analogy is just plain aweful.
I can elaborate though.
Like geth, just do what theyre told
Jews, do what theyre told out of fear.
The jews also outnumbered the germans in the concentration camps.
if the jews fought back, thered be a war
People are just squishy machines.CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Stephenc13 wrote...
CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Stephenc13 wrote...
Think of it as the third Reich, except the jewish communities fighting back
You would have a point... if the Jewish people were created as nonsapient labor by the Germans and they somehow began to develop sapience... and then Germany freaked out and ordered their shutdowns before they all became sapient... so really... your analogy is just plain aweful.
I can elaborate though.
Like geth, just do what theyre told
Jews, do what theyre told out of fear.
The jews also outnumbered the germans in the concentration camps.
if the jews fought back, thered be a war
The Jews are people, the Geth were just machines. Big difference.
Modifié par Lmaoboat, 18 février 2010 - 07:43 .
Modifié par Amethyst Deceiver, 18 février 2010 - 07:46 .
Lmaoboat wrote...
People are just squishy machines.CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Stephenc13 wrote...
CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Stephenc13 wrote...
Think of it as the third Reich, except the jewish communities fighting back
You would have a point... if the Jewish people were created as nonsapient labor by the Germans and they somehow began to develop sapience... and then Germany freaked out and ordered their shutdowns before they all became sapient... so really... your analogy is just plain aweful.
I can elaborate though.
Like geth, just do what theyre told
Jews, do what theyre told out of fear.
The jews also outnumbered the germans in the concentration camps.
if the jews fought back, thered be a war
The Jews are people, the Geth were just machines. Big difference.
Stephenc13 wrote...
Lmaoboat wrote...
People are just squishy machines.CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Stephenc13 wrote...
CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Stephenc13 wrote...
Think of it as the third Reich, except the jewish communities fighting back
You would have a point... if the Jewish people were created as nonsapient labor by the Germans and they somehow began to develop sapience... and then Germany freaked out and ordered their shutdowns before they all became sapient... so really... your analogy is just plain aweful.
I can elaborate though.
Like geth, just do what theyre told
Jews, do what theyre told out of fear.
The jews also outnumbered the germans in the concentration camps.
if the jews fought back, thered be a war
The Jews are people, the Geth were just machines. Big difference.
Exactly, If a robot has an AI and a very human body, would you be able to tell the difference?
Stephenc13 wrote...
Exactly, If a robot has an AI and a very human body, would you be able to tell the difference?
CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Stephenc13 wrote...
Exactly, If a robot has an AI and a very human body, would you be able to tell the difference?
If a farming robot began asking me questions about its' own existence, it'd be time for a shut down and complete system reformat. They *weren't* sapient beings. They were machines that began to develop sapience. It's a big distinction. When the Quarians made the order to shut down all Geth, they had only encountered a handful of signs that they were becoming sapient. Becoming. As in, not entirely sapient. Some of them may have been, but as far as the Quarians knew, they weren't all to that point yet.
Unfortunately for them, the Geth had developed more than they had thought, and they actually *were* self-aware, and they defended themselves. They thought they were shutting down equipment before it began thinking for itself, not that they were wiping out a species. Huge difference. If you only look at the situation in hindsight, it's easy to sympathize with the Geth. Try to look at it from the perspective of the Quarian people three centuries ago.
Modifié par didymos1120, 18 février 2010 - 08:02 .
I was more pointing out how people think geth aren't sentient simply because they are mechanical. i.e. the close-minded people who call them "toasters".didymos1120 wrote...
OK, people seem to keep getting hung up on the 'machine' thing. First off, it's being used in multiple senses. When people say 'just machines', they typically mean 'Not self-aware. Lacking consciousness.' This is a separate from the sense of the word 'machine' that includes organisms like ourselves. Second, the Geth really were just elaborate tools for most of their early existence. And the Quarians thought nearly all of them still were 'just machines' when the shutdown order was issued. So right up until the moment some mobile platforms started killing people, the Quarians fully believed they'd acted before the point at which the Geth were no longer 'just machines'. So (for the most part) when someone says 'Quarians were simply dealing with faulty machines', they're talking about what the Quarians thought at the time. Obviously, they were wrong, but they didn't know that.
ETA: I see I was scooped some there. I meant well though.
I think the mistake that quarians and alot of people make are the part where geth "ARENT" sapient, in my opinion geth ARE sapient because their main goal is survival. as with every other sapient being
Stephenc13 wrote...
I think the mistake that quarians and alot of people make are the part where geth "ARENT" sapient, in my opinion geth ARE sapient because their main goal is survival. as with every other sapient being
didymos1120 wrote...
OK, people seem to keep getting hung up on the 'machine' thing. First off, it's being used in multiple senses. When people say 'just machines', they typically mean 'Not self-aware. Lacking consciousness.' This is separate from the sense of the word 'machine' that includes organisms like ourselves. Second, the Geth really were just elaborate tools for most of their early existence. And the Quarians thought nearly all of them still were 'just machines' when the shutdown order was issued. So right up until the moment some mobile platforms started killing people, the Quarians fully believed they'd acted before the point at which the Geth were no longer 'just machines'. So (for the most part) when someone says 'Quarians were simply dealing with faulty machines', they're talking about what the Quarians thought at the time. Obviously, they were wrong, but they didn't know that.
ETA: I see I was scooped some there. I meant well though.
Lmaoboat wrote...
I was more pointing out how people think geth aren't sentient simply because they are mechanical. i.e. the close-minded people who call them "toasters".
CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Unfortunately for them, the Geth had developed more than they had thought, and they actually *were* self-aware, and they defended themselves. They thought they were shutting down equipment before it began thinking for itself, not that they were wiping out a species. Huge difference. If you only look at the situation in hindsight, it's easy to sympathize with the Geth. Try to look at it from the perspective of the Quarian people three centuries ago.
CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Stephenc13 wrote...
I think the mistake that quarians and alot of people make are the part where geth "ARENT" sapient, in my opinion geth ARE sapient because their main goal is survival. as with every other sapient being
You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. They *weren't* sapient. Past-tense. When they begin asking questions about their own existence, it was like a warning siren going off. Some of their robotic labor force was beginning to become sapient. The Geth were completely self-aware at that point, yes. However, the only indication was a handful of incidents involving one platform of Geth questioning its' master. The Quarians as a whole had indication that the Geth as a whole were that far along in their development. Yet again, hindsight is 20/20.
They simply acted from the fear that the galaxy as a whole has towards AI, and moved to elminiate the threat before it manifested. Sadly, the Geth absolutely were sapient and defended themselves. However, you cannot determine that the Quarians of 300 years ago had any indication that *all* of the Geth had achieved self-awareness. At least not until they retaliated.
Lmaoboat wrote...
I think if a robot started questioning it's existence IRL, it would make the light bulb and automobile look like worthless footnotes in history.
We've had this idea drilled into our culture for decades now that self-aware machines will kill us all without fail. Fear of it isn't unexpected.
The Capital Gaultier wrote...
I disagree. Both sides of the conflict are wrong to some extent. The Geth are wrong (both morally and tactically) for holding onto Rannoch and for not integrating into organic society more. The Quarians are wrong for zealously killing the Geth and remaining migrants for so long. I don't see a happy ending to the conflict, but I don't think you can assign more than about half the blame to either side.
Modifié par Astranagant, 18 février 2010 - 08:18 .
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