296 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

As I said on the poll thread:

You don't have a poll response strong enough for how much I oppose the idea of Shep being captured, imprisoned, put on trial, interrogated, or anything of the sort.

It's completely nonsense.

If I want that kind of crap, I'll watch 24 or Lost or The Prisoner.   Which I don't, because they suck.


EDIT:  The only table-top RPG campaign I've ever quit in mid-session, was because of contrived nonsense like this.  "You wake up -- you've been captured."  Really?  Why don't I remember this happening?  How did it happen?  Why didn't we fight our way out?  Why isn't our member who has a vow to never be taken alive, dead?  You've never been able to take our characters down in a fight, so you just right in that we lost, and pretend it makes sense?  

In a video game RPG, it's the worst kind of cut-scene nonsense. 

[Destroy Raiden_]

The only reason the council gave you back your status as Specter was because they needed time to build their real or fake evidence on you. It's like cops if they think or are 90% sure they've got a bad guy sometimes they let him walk so they can fallow him around and get more damning evidence on him in Sheps case even for paras they can take real crimes and use them on you they can also take half truths and twist in a little forgery and pin those on you too. If my para Sheps decisions come to bite her the ass then so be it doesn't anyone know the saying, " No good deed goes unpunished?" How many of you have tried to do good in the real world and it blew up in your face? Sheps trying to do the good thing don't think the council or anybody with and agenda won't try to make it go south for her. Also for smear campaigns we've got that reporter girl everyone loves to punch in a media match between her and Wong I think public opinion will be split.



As far as the trial helping to add t o3 it starts off with a galaxy divided Sheps on trial and going to prison physically shows just how in an uproar things are the council is trying to figure out its identity in the face of Shepard’s reaper allegations. Public opinion is split some believe her others don’t the council must question if their progression over 50,000 years has been truly of their own making or one big perpetuated lie drummed up and controlled by the reapers, that’s a large and hard pill to swallow. Shep gets out and has to physically stitch these rifts together by getting alien and human governments together and in other cases dragging governments kicking and screaming in the case of the Terminis systems into the fight I think the last people in the Galaxy we will attempt to bring to the final battle will be the Council itself they will be holding out until the very end once Sheps got all others on board those entities will pressure them to have to either give in or die on the Citadel when the reapers reach their doorstep.





If people don’t like busting out of prison what about busting out of a psych hospital a very heavily guarded one? Sense the council has called her insane anyway why not stuff her there? This way in their eyes she’s high but still usable if they should need her vs prison where she might be killed by either inmates or guards before they might need her. (Not to say our sheps are weak but this is the council’s mindset on the issue)



I hear a lot of people say I don’t want BW to restart our high level sheps because of newbies who never bothered to pick up 2 and I agree I don’t like it either I really really wish BW would make ME3 so relatable in dialogue context to 1 and 2 that they’d make all newbies have to play at least 2 to begin to understand just what is going on but sense they already leapt backwards for the PS3 crowd and they’ve already said it will be accessible to newbies we’ve got to salvage what we can and hope making an into that gets newbies up to speed with the plot elements but doesn’t allow old and current players to change what they did in their past Me’s work the trial is the best way to accomplish this other then being kidnapped by heretic geth, Cerberus agents (if FU TIM), Alliance, Asari, or STG commandos (if stayed w/ TIM) we all cringe at having to start at level 1 but you know deep down BW will do it like all game trilogies before them so lets try to make it bearable and interesting for old players.

[Fiery Phoenix]

That's a very well thought-out summary of all this, Raiden. Really, thanks for breaking it down.

[Moiaussi]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

The only reason the council gave you back your status as Specter was because they needed time to build their real or fake evidence on you. It's like cops if they think or are 90% sure they've got a bad guy sometimes they let him walk so they can fallow him around and get more damning evidence on him in Sheps case even for paras they can take real crimes and use them on you they can also take half truths and twist in a little forgery and pin those on you too. If my para Sheps decisions come to bite her the ass then so be it doesn't anyone know the saying, " No good deed goes unpunished?" How many of you have tried to do good in the real world and it blew up in your face? Sheps trying to do the good thing don't think the council or anybody with and agenda won't try to make it go south for her. Also for smear campaigns we've got that reporter girl everyone loves to punch in a media match between her and Wong I think public opinion will be split.

As far as the trial helping to add t o3 it starts off with a galaxy divided Sheps on trial and going to prison physically shows just how in an uproar things are the council is trying to figure out its identity in the face of Shepard’s reaper allegations. Public opinion is split some believe her others don’t the council must question if their progression over 50,000 years has been truly of their own making or one big perpetuated lie drummed up and controlled by the reapers, that’s a large and hard pill to swallow. Shep gets out and has to physically stitch these rifts together by getting alien and human governments together and in other cases dragging governments kicking and screaming in the case of the Terminis systems into the fight I think the last people in the Galaxy we will attempt to bring to the final battle will be the Council itself they will be holding out until the very end once Sheps got all others on board those entities will pressure them to have to either give in or die on the Citadel when the reapers reach their doorstep.


If people don’t like busting out of prison what about busting out of a psych hospital a very heavily guarded one? Sense the council has called her insane anyway why not stuff her there? This way in their eyes she’s high but still usable if they should need her vs prison where she might be killed by either inmates or guards before they might need her. (Not to say our sheps are weak but this is the council’s mindset on the issue)

I hear a lot of people say I don’t want BW to restart our high level sheps because of newbies who never bothered to pick up 2 and I agree I don’t like it either I really really wish BW would make ME3 so relatable in dialogue context to 1 and 2 that they’d make all newbies have to play at least 2 to begin to understand just what is going on but sense they already leapt backwards for the PS3 crowd and they’ve already said it will be accessible to newbies we’ve got to salvage what we can and hope making an into that gets newbies up to speed with the plot elements but doesn’t allow old and current players to change what they did in their past Me’s work the trial is the best way to accomplish this other then being kidnapped by heretic geth, Cerberus agents (if FU TIM), Alliance, Asari, or STG commandos (if stayed w/ TIM) we all cringe at having to start at level 1 but you know deep down BW will do it like all game trilogies before them so lets try to make it bearable and interesting for old players.

Right.. a retired police officer is a murder suspect, so because they can't prove it yet, they reinstate him even though there is absolutely no legal or moral obligation to do so and even though said former officer doesn't even ask for reinstatement .

The police office then assigns the officer to patrol a district over which they have no actual jurisdiction, and in which they had previously specificly prohibited said former officer from even entering. In fact, they specificly tell him not to perfrom his normal duties anywhere within their actual jurisdiciton. Note this is an order, not a request.

(when the subject of reinstatement as a Spectre comes up, it is the Council offering to do so and Shepard, rather than question his loss of status in the first place, asks for confirmation that he won't have to write reports. They then insist that he only operate in the Terminus systems, a region they were so convinced entering would start a war, he was forbidden from entering previously. Note they also do so despite the fact that if they wanted to arrest him on charges, he had already disobeyed a direct order in going to Ilos. He saved all allied civilization in doing so, but regardless of how paragon Shepard has behaved including advising the loss of human vessels saving the Council themselves, but that is obviously just a ploy, right?).

But of course all that makes perfect sense to you....

By the way, paragon Shepards turn the tables on said reporter in both interviews. There is nothing from either to be used in a smear campaign because any Shepard with half a brain knows how to play the press better than said reporter.

A debriefing makes sense, but the only way any sort of trial makes sense is if the Council and C-Sec really are indoctrinated and Shepard's first act in ME3 consists of finding some way to either snap them out of it or kill them... but in that case, why would they bother with a trial as opposed to a simple clean assassination without the risk of losing publicly?

[Ahriman]

Zulu's ideas have sense, but I don't like word 'escapes'. Usual guards a bit more dangerous than puppies for Shepard and no one will keep spectres there. So you just need to release Shepard (shut down stasis and shields) and he/she will walk out of prison (aka Jack's recruitment mission, but with lesser destructions), I don't think we should even control Shepard on this stage. But in the end when all problems behind ... BANG some kind of super EMI - all implants are offline and Shepard survives by a miracle.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I don't think shep can be assassinated easily he's hardly ever alone and if he is he's usually in armor finding the right time and place to do so would be difficult they could just blow up the ship but that's already happened once.



But wow Moiaussi and FieryPhoenix7 you seem rather defensive on the subject it's not like real cases as I decribed earlier haven't happened two of the most recent are Kailey Anthony who is currently on trial for her daughters murder before she got to said trial her kid goes missing she runs off for a month. She just so happens a month later to tell her mom, "Oh yeah my daughter/your granddaughter is missing and has been for month and no I haven't reported her missing because I was "looking" for her." well her version of looking consisted of parties and acting like she was single all over again no care whatsoever for her missing child. To cut it short kids gone, trunk smells like dead body her dad x P.officer knows the smell. Police where reasonably sure she did it had motive but let her go for months to get more solid evidence. She may not have worked in a state job or was an officer herself but they let her walk to live her life while they used the time to get a stronger case.



Vandersloot is another. Guy kills a girl confesses 3 times to doing it and also recants 3 times police can't arrest the guy so they let him walk spy on him he even fled to a second country he had dual citizenship in! He had to kill another girl before they could get him.



So bringing me back the Council while already considering how they wanted to cut shep loose after saving the citadel they send him to fight geth why? to buy time and he dies. So convenient for them, saves them the time, possible trial, and effort of getting rid of him. Then he comes back dashes their plans and so to save face they have to reinstate him w/ new allegations on Cerberus they still need more time now to come up with a more compelling way to get rid of him while maintaining ties with humans so they reinstate him tell him to go to the Terminus systems away from them while they figure out what they're going to do about him.



Firing him may seem easy but after all the backpedaling they've done on his reaper threat allegations it maynot be possible to just fire him and hope he keeps his mouth shut. Killing spector girl sense shep isn't exactly the councils #1 fav they will not protect him like they did Saren they will turn on him they've hinted at this sense 1. The council is itching for an excuse to get rid of Shep Spector girl can give this to them then they can pile on the charges from there.



I'm pretty sure by your comments you still hate all I've said so how would you open up 3 working with what 2 has given us and still get those newbies we all know and love (sarcastic) on board with the story? If you can come up with something better then Zulu's theory we're all ears here.

[Moiaussi]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

I don't think shep can be assassinated easily he's hardly ever alone and if he is he's usually in armor finding the right time and place to do so would be difficult they could just blow up the ship but that's already happened once.

But wow Moiaussi and FieryPhoenix7 you seem rather defensive on the subject it's not like real cases as I decribed earlier haven't happened two of the most recent are Kailey Anthony who is currently on trial for her daughters murder before she got to said trial her kid goes missing she runs off for a month. She just so happens a month later to tell her mom, "Oh yeah my daughter/your granddaughter is missing and has been for month and no I haven't reported her missing because I was "looking" for her." well her version of looking consisted of parties and acting like she was single all over again no care whatsoever for her missing child. To cut it short kids gone, trunk smells like dead body her dad x P.officer knows the smell. Police where reasonably sure she did it had motive but let her go for months to get more solid evidence. She may not have worked in a state job or was an officer herself but they let her walk to live her life while they used the time to get a stronger case.

Vandersloot is another. Guy kills a girl confesses 3 times to doing it and also recants 3 times police can't arrest the guy so they let him walk spy on him he even fled to a second country he had dual citizenship in! He had to kill another girl before they could get him.

So bringing me back the Council while already considering how they wanted to cut shep loose after saving the citadel they send him to fight geth why? to buy time and he dies. So convenient for them, saves them the time, possible trial, and effort of getting rid of him. Then he comes back dashes their plans and so to save face they have to reinstate him w/ new allegations on Cerberus they still need more time now to come up with a more compelling way to get rid of him while maintaining ties with humans so they reinstate him tell him to go to the Terminus systems away from them while they figure out what they're going to do about him.

Firing him may seem easy but after all the backpedaling they've done on his reaper threat allegations it maynot be possible to just fire him and hope he keeps his mouth shut. Killing spector girl sense shep isn't exactly the councils #1 fav they will not protect him like they did Saren they will turn on him they've hinted at this sense 1. The council is itching for an excuse to get rid of Shep Spector girl can give this to them then they can pile on the charges from there.

I'm pretty sure by your comments you still hate all I've said so how would you open up 3 working with what 2 has given us and still get those newbies we all know and love (sarcastic) on board with the story? If you can come up with something better then Zulu's theory we're all ears here.

But they reinstated Shepard without Shepard even asking to be reinstated. That isn't the same as simply not arresting the suspect due to a lack of evidence, it is closer to ordering a suspected child molester to work at an elementry school, or setting up someone they suspect of killing girls that he dates with a new date (and a civilian picked by the suspect, not an undercover anyone). In addition, sending the suspect to do these things in a region they cannot really investigate in.

And meanwhile if they simply had Shepard 'vanish' i.e. assassinated (which is the 'usual' way to deal with someone in that kind of situation), then there is no trial nor publicity risk from any trial. And it is not like anyone will really miss Shepard. He was killed in the middle of nowhere, and the majority of the public don't even know he died. C-Sec even seem to have no clue what spectres are anymore let alone Shepard. Shepard had to point out to the C-sec officer who was investigating the Quarrian exactly who outranks who

[Destroy Raiden_]

Ok so Shep disappears or is assassinated in 3 and that starts us off how? How do you get the newbies into the story so they know how shep got to this point story and development wise? How would him disappearing work?

[Fiery Phoenix]

Raiden, just to clear up any confusion, I totally agree with you; I'm not against your ideas. Sorry if it seemed otherwise from my earlier comment.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 14 novembre 2010 - 07:10 .

[Moiaussi]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Ok so Shep disappears or is assassinated in 3 and that starts us off how? How do you get the newbies into the story so they know how shep got to this point story and development wise? How would him disappearing work?

So... your position is that Shepard is a war criminal and there is no possible believable alternative?
 
Shepard couldn't, oh I don't know, simply carry on working for Cerberus (if renegade) or either forge his own power block or betray Cerberus to the Council re-earning their trust if paragon?

If need be, there could be a debriefing. Shepard had a career before ME1. Strangely newbies (including us) had no difficulties learning he was N7 (special forces) and was confused as to why he would be assigned to what was essentially expected to be a milk run.

Since any newbie wouldn't have made any of the past decisions, precisely what would they need to know? Its not like a ton of information was passed on at the start of ME2...

Modifié par Moiaussi, 14 novembre 2010 - 08:01 .

[MassAffected]

I actually like the idea of Shepard being court martialed and imprisoned...would work great for me since I sided with TIM and let him keep the Collector base. It wouldn't be that far-fetched for the Alliance to be able to apprehend Shepard and put him in front of a military court. Then comes the rescue and we begin our final quest to stop the Reapers.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Moiaussi wrote...
 
Shepard couldn't, oh I don't know, simply carry on working for Cerberus (if renegade) or either forge his own power block or betray Cerberus to the Council re-earning their trust if paragon?

If need be, there could be a debriefing. Shepard had a career before ME1. Strangely newbies (including us) had no difficulties learning he was N7 (special forces) and was confused as to why he would be assigned to what was essentially expected to be a milk run.

Since any new newbies wouldn't have made any of the past decisions, precisely what would they need to know? Its not like a ton of information was passed on at the start of ME2...

Am I apposed to other intro ideas? No someone said you could get captured by geth w/ the right dailouge choices to help new players into the story they need to understand how it is we got to here ( where ever BW will stick us), who is Shepard and how did he get to this point in the world (that would be a few of our decisions), and why they're even fighting the reapers at all. There is history to the reapers current players know that new ones won't.  

As far as your idea of starting out on  a Cerberus SR2 or I guess Council SR2 would be a nice way to incorporate the idea of branching stories if BW lets us choose our alignment (work for Cerberus, Council) then it could work but we'd also be stuck w/ repeating relations dailouge new players will be like whos Garrus, Whos so and so and they'd all have to talk to you for at least a while on a background players already familiar with the story know. Also it most likely will not be the type of intro to draw one in after 2.

For instance in 1 we started out on the deck moving up to joker as he makes for the relay that was a great easy intro for 1st time players which everyone at that point was. In  2 they shock us by blowing our ship to tinny pieces this freaked people out and confused others in 3 you want to go back to being on deck? Maybe if the reapers are attacking this could work, but then what do we suddenly go back a few days prior to hell breaking lose? Or would we see the fight and start commanding right off ? We'd win or loose (this fight)  based off of a 1second decision and....then do we get contacted by Cerberus/Council if successful or flee like the battlestar if not? New payers (who never touched 1 or 2) would surely be confused though if BW was going to make playing 2 mandatory then there would be no issue with this start up sense all current players know whats what by this point.

The trial scenario also seems like a natural progression of game events its hinted at in 2 SB files also the council sense 1 at least to me has given the impression they used shep as a publicity stunt and want him/her off their team.

We know BW wants this trilogy story to kind of not be sense they want new player accessible right off and some of us are reasonably sure they'll still kick us to low levels and separate our crew like they did in 2  There is no evidence at this point to think differently. It'll be frustrating for the players who've played zillions of hours I'm sure so at least I'm thinking w/ the trial scenario its a more plausible way to kick us down to 1 do the training I'm pretty sure they're going to do even if they use the same game engine. You just can't seem to escape ingame tutorials now adays, and make my first 30 - 60 minutes of the game entertaining w/o the did I hit the wrong button my character just died sort of feeling.

[ReiSilver]

actually for ME2 a lot of that intro information was given with Miranda and TiM talking about Shepard before the big level-reset of death/resurrection. New information could be given by showing in universe news feeds talking about Shepard, they could have panellists arguing whether Shep is a hero fighting to save the galaxy or a dangerous individual with paranoid delusions of reapers.

Turning the Alliance into an enemy even for paragon sheps just strikes me as unwarranted and unnecessary, it takes agency away from Shepard who we know can talk Hir way out of just about anything.

Unless you were to have two different openings one where those who saved the collector base are picked up by the Alliance and those who blew the base are captured by Cerberus. But it's not really likely that Bioware will split story lines right from the very start.

[DaVanguard]

^for para-spacers breaking ties with te alliance is unjustifiable

[Timberley]

Strangely enough, I posted something similar (to the original poster) ages ago without having come across this thread... Hmmm... Does this mean we're all seeing the writing on the wall, or is it just a logical place for things to go?  After all, it is the 3rd Act in Commander Shepard's story, where, classically, the hero must go from his/her lowest point to triumph (in a linear story arrangement).

It also answers the questions of what to do with new/old squadmates, how decisions in ME2 affect ME3, etc.  Personally, I'd prefer it if ME3 relied heavily on your decisions from ME2, thus pretty much requiring you to have played ME2 beforehand (though I'm still to work out how to bring back Shepard if he/she got killed in the Suicide mission at the end of ME2).  However, this wouldn't make good business sense to Bioware, as they've got still gotta shift games off the shelves, so they'll pretty much have to make it accessible to first-timers.

A link to my fevered imaginings:  http://social.biowar...4501/blog/4103/

Tim

[cdtrk65]

For those of you who find it hard to find reasons for the council to arrest Shepard.



It could be explained in an opening cinematic...say a reaper jumps through a mass relay and blows up one of the council (non-human) races colonies.



Salarian Councilor: "An STG unit reported seeing a massive ship attacking in the area before going awol"

Anderson: "Shepard was right the reapers are real."

Turian Councilor: "What to heck? We've already dismissed Shepard's reaper claims, they were only lies Saren told to Shepard for distraction purposes."

Asari COuncilor: "He's right Anderson, there is no real prove the reapers exist"

Anderson: "Shepard warned you about this before and you didn't listen."

Turian Councilor: "Shepard is working for Cerebrus, how do we know they are not behind this attack."

Anderson: "No way, Shepard would never do this."

Salarian Councilor: "We cannot be sure of Shepard since Cerebrus resurrection."

Asari Councilor: "We all know Cerebrus's history as a pro human terrorist cell."

Turian Councilor: "We need to bring Shepard in for questioning."

Anderson: "Fine, I'm sure Shepard can explain. I'll request a meeting"

Turian Councilor: "That's not good enough. There is no certianity Shepard will respond, send someone after him."

Anderson: "He will come."

Asari Councilor: "Maybe we can comprise, Alenko/Williams still works with the Alliance."

Salarin Councilor: "Yes that will do, Shepard might come peacefully with one of the old Normandy's crew members"

Anderson nods.

[GodWood]

Well this was a popular theory, so does it still hold up with the release of the ME3 trailer?

[Fiery Phoenix]

The trailer didn't really show anything, Wood, so we can't say. Perhaps the next trailer will shed some light on what actually happens to Shepard.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hell, the Mass Effect 2 trailer showed Shepard fighting Collectors, but you had to play through at least four missions before that ever became a possibility. The Reapers attacking Earth could well be a mid-game action.

[Ahriman]

I'm almost sure that Reapers wont come before prologue, so this theory is still suitable. Actually than later they come than better it's for the plot.

One picture just visited my head.
Breaking news! We've just knew from reliable source that one prisoner escaped from Tartarus prison complex. Officials refused to give any comments.
Turian Councilor: Let's hope he's not so mad and dangerous as I thought.
*few days later*
Breaking news! Earth attacked by unknown highly-advanced race, their ships look like Sovereign, previously considered as a Geth ship. We are loosing contact with boundary colonies...
Turain Councilor: I swear, I'll kill him!

Modifié par Wizz, 14 décembre 2010 - 03:18 .

[Vaenier]

Shepard wakes up strapped down to a chair. The doom is dark except for a large bright light shining in his face. There are a bunch of monitors around him showing a bunch of random images. On the far wall is an observation room with a shadowy figure looking down on Shep. He speaks through a voice changer, prodding shep about his actions since becoming a Specter. Eventually the shadowy figure reveals himself as Hacket and lets shep free.

This is a totally original idea that i came up with all by my self and did not steal from anywhere...

[Zulu_DFA]

As I speculated in th OP, the Reaper invasion and the ensuing turmoil may be one of the possible set ups for Shepard to escape from captivity. The Big Ben Sniper may even turn out to be the one to help Shepard (and get left behind).



But the trailer really confirms or denies nothing, except:



1. The Reapers will invade Earth at some point (probably near the beginning of the game).

2. The freaking thermal ammo will be there.

[kill_switch_423]

I came into this thread thinking I'd dislike the ideas. However, I actually... like them. A lot. Good job.

[Zulu_DFA]

kill_switch_423 wrote...

I came into this thread thinking I'd dislike the ideas. However, I actually... like them. A lot. Good job.

[Evil laughter]

...

Here's one more. All the way through the trial/interrogation and the Prison Break (tutorial) level up till the plastic surgery (character creator) option, Commander Shepard must wear a jail overall and a full helmet, concealing his/her face! Sorta "Man in Iron Mask" in space. Sounds silly, I know, but no more silly than the whole "No Helmet Toggle" thing in ME2! BioWare could even put in some silly joke about it to honestly acknowledge at least this one screw-up they made with ME2...

[Ahriman]

kill_switch_423 wrote...

I came into this thread thinking I'd dislike the ideas. However, I actually... like them. A lot. Good job.

When you read his theories too much you start believe in this.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Here's one more. All the way through the
trial/interrogation and the Prison Break (tutorial) level up till the
plastic surgery (character creator) option, Commander Shepard must wear a
jail overall and a full helmet, concealing his/her face! Sorta "Man in
Iron Mask" in space. Sounds silly, I know, but no more silly than the
whole "No Helmet Toggle" thing in ME2! BioWare could even put in some
silly joke about it to honestly acknowledge at least this one screw-up
they made with ME2...

Capturing - planet with dangerous atmosphere.
Interrogation -  dark room / view from back.
Escaping - first scenes from first person view, then before rescue team meet Shepard - choose class and appearance. Without any explanations, Shepard just 'remembers' class and appearance.
*sigh* Bioware avoids all popular theories so I doubt we'll see Shepard's capturing.