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ME3 Theory Time: Shepard, escaped convict. - ME3 opening plot twist (& facial reconstruction).


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#51
Zulu_DFA

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Brijenieve wrote...

My suspicion is that a large part (if not all) of ME3's plot has been written and decided, and that ME2 was made in light of that, as the bridge between the first and final chapters. I don't think there will be a huge disconnect between ME2 and ME3 - like "That was fun, but let's go THIS way now!" At the very end of ME2, after Shep is back on board (if he/she survived, obvi), it seems like the crew have developed a bond and respect for their commander - they all nod at him/her as he/she walks past the coffins (if there are any) in the cargo hold (or whatever), as though to suggest that "we're all in this together." I don't think that means they will all automatically be squaddies in ME3 (given that any of them can die, as has been mentioned), but I would be surprised if everything started all over again for the third game. Of course you'll be back to noob status somehow (with bonuses for your high level imported shep, of course), but I don' t think you'll start completely from scratch when it comes to a team. My impression is that ME2 is a foundation on which to build the final chapter, not just a filler. You may have to find some of your team again (like if you're put in prison or something), but if they were loyal, they'll be loyal already, etc. Know what I mean?

Just a thought


Good thinking. Nice to read it, for a change.

#52
NorDee65

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As there are several possible endings for ME2 there should be several possible beginnings for ME3.

1. Shepard dead > Cerberus creates a clone, which will also help any newbie to create a band new Shepard...

2. C-Base not destroyed and Shepard subscribes to Cerberus point of view

3. C-Base destroyed and Shepard quits Cerberus

Everything else is pretty much a variation thereof.

If 1: Shepard pretty much has to learn everything new and I have no idea how that can be played out

If 2: there is a possibility that hte alliance has a warrant out for Shepard (Betraying the alliaince, supporting/joining an known terror-organization, desertion), with Alenko/Williams getting Shepard arrested

if 3: TIM may have something to say about it, with a possible albeit unwilling betrayal by Miranda (due to her sister being compromised), or using Shepard's implants against him

#53
Zulu_DFA

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NorDee65 wrote...

As there are several possible endings for ME2 there should be several possible beginnings for ME3.
1. Shepard dead > Cerberus creates a clone, which will also help any newbie to create a band new Shepard...
2. C-Base not destroyed and Shepard subscribes to Cerberus point of view
3. C-Base destroyed and Shepard quits Cerberus
Everything else is pretty much a variation thereof.
If 1: Shepard pretty much has to learn everything new and I have no idea how that can be played out
If 2: there is a possibility that hte alliance has a warrant out for Shepard (Betraying the alliaince, supporting/joining an known terror-organization, desertion), with Alenko/Williams getting Shepard arrested
if 3: TIM may have something to say about it, with a possible albeit unwilling betrayal by Miranda (due to her sister being compromised), or using Shepard's implants against him


#1 never happened. There IS "Canon Shepard" and he survives the "suicide mission". That'd been made clear by BioWare. If in someone's game he bites it, there is NO WAY to tell what happened afterwards.

#2 and #3 would require two different games to build. And some people kept the C-base, thinking it's the only chance against the Reapers, but not subscrime to TIM's point of view and would like to kill him. But all these eventualities deserve to be accounted for. Thus the bust-down plot twist at the Start of ME3 is a must.

#54
Series5Ranger

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Macq Daddy wrote...

I could see EA/Bioware playing it both ways. If you start fresh, then you get to rebuild your face and choose your class. If you import, you hold what you've got. Plot progresses from there. It's not entirely uncommon for a Space Opera to start with a crew already in place.

Of course, another option could simply be that somewhere between ME2 and ME3 Shepard gets captured by the Reapers or their agents and had experiments of some kind performed on him (to try to figure out exactly how/why such an insignificant little thing could possibly screw over the Reapers' plans twice, so it can be avoided in the future), and the opening of the game is him breaking free/getting rescued...then you have to go track down your crew and save the galaxy again.

You could either have a couple old party members who were captured with you (or show up to rescue you...bonus points if it's a mix of ME1 and ME2 characters), or gain a couple new ones in the first mission by freeing them from the Reaper's clutches. Maybe Thane makes a heroic last stand/sacrifice to allow you to escape (coupled with heartfelt farewell if he was a LI) to give the prologue/opening some dramatic weight. Then when you arrive back in the galaxy proper the Reaper threat is in full swing and you get to make the triumphant "hero's return" and rally everybody to your side for the final battle.


Ah, The Baldur's Gate 2 Opening

#55
SmokePants

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I agree with the list of requirements. I know there have been some hints that the levels were going to carry over to ME3, but honestly, if they have to redo them, they have to redo them. And I believe they do have to redo them. The system in place is pretty jank and basically forces one or two builds per character as the only ones that allow you to spend all your points.

And yeah, there's got to be facial reconstruction for the same reason they have facial reconstruction in ME2. The need has not gone away, but they can't reuse the "back from the dead" excuse to justify it.

I would add another requirement that Sheperd has to be in somewhat of a dramatic "cold storage" during the interim time period. I don't mean literally in a cryo tube, but he can't be off having adventures that the player doesn't see.

I think the idea of a trial is great, but I would put it 1 month after the suicide mission and have him rotting in jail for a year or two before being busted out when the **** hits the fan.

I do want to see him on the run as a fugitive next time around, and optional plastic surgery would be a great fit for facial reconstruction.

Modifié par SmokePants, 26 février 2010 - 11:32 .


#56
Zulu_DFA

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SmokePants wrote...

I agree with the list of requirements. I know there have been some hints that the levels were going to carry over to ME3, but honestly, if they have to redo them, they have to redo them. And I believe they do have to redo them. The system in place is pretty jank and basically forces one or two builds per character as the only ones that allow you to spend all your points.

And yeah, there's got to be facial reconstruction for the same reason they have facial reconstruction in ME2. The need has not gone away, but they can't reuse the "back from the dead" excuse to justify it.

I would add another requirement that Sheperd has to be in somewhat of a dramatic "cold storage" during the interim time period. I don't mean literally in a cryo tube, but he can't be off having adventures that the player doesn't see.

I think the idea of a trial is great, but I would put it 1 month after the suicide mission and have him rotting in jail for a year or two before being busted out when the **** hits the fan.

I do want to see him on the run as a fugitive next time around, and optional plastic surgery would be a great fit for facial reconstruction.


Two years in jail? You mean... GAY romance?..Image IPB

NNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

#57
SmokePants

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Yeah, but it happens behind the scenes. You don't actually play through the imprisonment. Like ME2 fastforwards from the destruction of the Normandy to him waking up in the Lazarus station, you'll go from the trial to the jailbreak. The player won't know about any gay sex until he gets to the anal reconstruction prompt.

#58
masterkajo

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I don't know how they'll do the beginning in ME3 but my guess is that you have to fly across the galaxy Dragon Age style and convince everyone to join the battle against the reapers (depending on the choices you made in the previous games: Rachni, Geth...)

#59
WindOverTuchanka

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masterkajo wrote...

I don't know how they'll do the beginning in ME3 but my guess is that you have to fly across the galaxy Dragon Age style and convince everyone to join the battle against the reapers (depending on the choices you made in the previous games: Rachni, Geth...)


I am very, very much afraid they will go this route. Lets hope they'll decide to concentrate on the actual plot and let the silly ally-gathering logistics sort themselves out behind the scenes.

#60
Nozybidaj

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This actually sounds like something BW would do, nicely done, even gets the "trial" portion of the game out of the way right at the start.

#61
Vanaer

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WindOverTuchanka wrote...

masterkajo wrote...

I don't know how they'll do the beginning in ME3 but my guess is that you have to fly across the galaxy Dragon Age style and convince everyone to join the battle against the reapers (depending on the choices you made in the previous games: Rachni, Geth...)


I am very, very much afraid they will go this route. Lets hope they'll decide to concentrate on the actual plot and let the silly ally-gathering logistics sort themselves out behind the scenes.

I wouldn't even mind it. I want to see how the Rachni are doing, what their architecture is. However, concerning the Geth. You've got Legion on board, he is all Geth at the same time (when he's connected).

However, I hope they do not go the: oh no, you've lost everything path and now you will have to start from scratch again story. That would seriously suck. It would serve as a motivation to people to buy ME2, when it doesn't follow this path. Also, you could implement a trial phase without starting this nonsense. This is for the writers to clear up, but I do hope they're not going to be uncreative and follow this path... such a limitation on creativity would suck epicly.

It also seems unlikely to me. You've been building an epic team almost during all of ME2, to discard a team? Again? Why add Katsumi after the main event? I really do not think they'll go this way. You probaly start on a planet discovering something completely new concerning the Reapers(also to introduce new players to ME3, gameplay wise), which makes it nessecary to revisit the Citadel and whine about "Death, destruction and ancient machine devils".  I do expect Shepard to face some kind of review of her actions at this point, whereby new players are introduced to canon Shepards decisions. And then it's all fast paced heroic action.

Also, concerning Shepards face. Very simple, as with the first Mass Effect game, you could just say the data base has corrupted data, please reinsert data. Ta-da.

Modifié par Vanaer, 01 mars 2010 - 07:29 .


#62
Zulu_DFA

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Vanaer wrote...

WindOverTuchanka wrote...

masterkajo wrote...

I don't know how they'll do the beginning in ME3 but my guess is that you have to fly across the galaxy Dragon Age style and convince everyone to join the battle against the reapers (depending on the choices you made in the previous games: Rachni, Geth...)


I am very, very much afraid they will go this route. Lets hope they'll decide to concentrate on the actual plot and let the silly ally-gathering logistics sort themselves out behind the scenes.

I wouldn't even mind it. I want to see how the Rachni are doing, what their architecture is. However, concerning the Geth. You've got Legion on board, he is all Geth at the same time (when he's connected).

However, I hope they do not go the: oh no, you've lost everything path and now you will have to start from scratch again story. That would seriously suck. It would serve as a motivation to people to buy ME2, when it doesn't follow this path. Also, you could implement a trial phase without starting this nonsense. This is for the writers to clear up, but I do hope they're not going to be uncreative and follow this path... such a limitation on creativity would suck epicly.

It also seems unlikely to me. You've been building an epic team almost during all of ME2, to discard a team? Again? Why add Katsumi after the main event? I really do not think they'll go this way. You probaly start on a planet discovering something completely new concerning the Reapers(also to introduce new players to ME3, gameplay wise), which makes it nessecary to revisit the Citadel and whine about "Death, destruction and ancient machine devils".  I do expect Shepard to face some kind of review of her actions at this point, whereby new players are introduced to canon Shepards decisions. And then it's all fast paced heroic action.

Also, concerning Shepards face. Very simple, as with the first Mass Effect game, you could just say the data base has corrupted data, please reinsert data. Ta-da.


As far as I can imagine fron your post, *your (main)* Shepard is a Rachni-lovin' Hub of the Universe who saved all ME2 squadmates on the so called "suicide" mission.

*My only* Shepard is a human-centric TIM's loyalist who was dumb enough to bring in some meaning to the so called "suicide mission" and lost half the team on it.

So how do you imagine the start of ME3 that suits both of these Shepards?

What you propose is basically the start of... Ta-da! Mass Effect One. So much for the writers' job.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 mars 2010 - 07:40 .


#63
Super_Fr33k

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The trial idea for Shepard is non-sensical, at least as a starting point for ME3. If the Council didn't arrest Shepard for simply being with Cerberus when they first met, I don't see why they'd arrest him later, when he hasn't done anything significantly criminal since then. More over, I'm not sure they could avoid trying him publicly, and Shepard getting publicity means the Reapers getting publicity. The Council wants the galaxy complacent, and giving Shepard a microphone is a bad way to do that. A trial midway through ME3 might make sense, but not in the beginning.



As best we can assume, ME3 will involve open war against the Reapers, and will therefore involve mobilizing the galaxy against them. Here's my take on the likely shape of ME3:



Mobilizing the galaxy against the Reapers will require Shepard's credibility not being undermined by his Cerberus affiliation. It will also require him/her presenting undeniable proof that the Reapers exist and are a mortal threat to all life (before they actually start attacking en masse, since that'd likely be too late to fight back). And, from a game development standpoint, it will require converging the trajectories of various decisions made in ME1 and 2.



Therefore, I think the beginning of the game will involve searching a long lost planet or facility for Reaper evidence, and in the aftermath of that mission, TIM and Shepard agree that Shepard must part ways with Cerberus. Despite what some people say, I don't think TIM will betray or undermine Shepard, because so far he/she's the only one able to fight the Reapers. TIM is too calculating to simply activate a secret kill-switch on the galaxy's potential savior. Instead, I think TIM asks Shepard to act as a Cerberus double-agent, feeding him intelligence and undermining alien races so humanity (and Cerberus) have more control over the alliance Shepard forms.



Either way, I think Shepard goes back to the Alliance (at least officially), and the story missions in ME3 become two-sided: the paragon route of trusting and strengthening other races as you recruit them, or the renegade route of helping Cerberus undermine and manipulate other races into basically fodder for the Reapers. I think it could be cool if TIM eventually turns on you, but I think you should have to deny him repeatedly before that occurs. He doesn't really care if you disagree with him; he does care if he thinks you're building a weak alliance.



As far as squad members, I think the minimum for canon should assume that Miranda, Jacob, Garrus and Tali survived, as did the Normandy crew. Those four, plus the crew, give solid footing for whatever story BW comes up, and lots of options if tension develops between Shepard and Cerberus. It would make sense if Thane, Mordin, Legion, Samara/Morinth and Zaeed left the ship, if they survived. It would make less sense for Grunt and Jack to leave, since they seem to have nowhere else to go. I'm not dissing characters (I would love to keep a lot of them), I'm just saying some people are going to have to get axed one way or another.



The beginning of the game is really as far as I'd care to speculate at this point. Regardless of which characters you think should stay in ME3, I hope Bioware doesn't introduce a lot of new characters just for the sake of new characters. People enjoy having a history with characters, and Shepard did recruit some of the best in ME2.

#64
MikeFL25

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No. Shepard wouldn't be in trouble with the Council or Alliance...they gave him a free pass! Even though they don't like Cerberus, in light of Shepard's past service, they just let him do whatever he needs to do as long as he stays in the Terminus systems. Also note that they only had a problem with him as long as hey worked for Cerberus.



Since it is likely Shepard will no longer be with Cerberus in ME3, that is problem solved. Having him tried/arrested would not fit into the story whatsoever.

#65
Vanaer

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Vanaer wrote...

WindOverTuchanka wrote...

masterkajo wrote...

I don't know how they'll do the beginning in ME3 but my guess is that you have to fly across the galaxy Dragon Age style and convince everyone to join the battle against the reapers (depending on the choices you made in the previous games: Rachni, Geth...)


I am very, very much afraid they will go this route. Lets hope they'll decide to concentrate on the actual plot and let the silly ally-gathering logistics sort themselves out behind the scenes.

I wouldn't even mind it. I want to see how the Rachni are doing, what their architecture is. However, concerning the Geth. You've got Legion on board, he is all Geth at the same time (when he's connected).

However, I hope they do not go the: oh no, you've lost everything path and now you will have to start from scratch again story. That would seriously suck. It would serve as a motivation to people to buy ME2, when it doesn't follow this path. Also, you could implement a trial phase without starting this nonsense. This is for the writers to clear up, but I do hope they're not going to be uncreative and follow this path... such a limitation on creativity would suck epicly.


As far as I can imagine fron your post, *your (main)* Shepard is a Rachni-lovin' Hub of the Universe who saved all ME2 squadmates on the so called "suicide" mission.

*My only* Shepard is a human-centric TIM's loyalist who was dumb enough to bring in some meaning to the so called "suicide mission" and lost half the team on it.

So how do you imagine the start of ME3 that suits both of these Shepards? 

Well, we get Katsumi from what I've heard after the Collector base. That's plus one. One will die (Thane) anyhow, so he will have to be replaced. Also, what reason is there for Zaeed to stay? He only joined for the credits, so canon wise he's probaly replaced too. I expect Liara to come back, but perhaps you end up with a smaller team than you had for ME2. The first game had a considerable smaller crew (Wrex, Ashley, Kaidan, Liara, Garrus and Tali - 6 crewmembers) than ME2 as well. It also means your choices have some meaning. Probaly, with the worst possible playthrough - all dead except Shepard -, you get at least 4 in depth (Thane replacement, Zaeed Replacement, Liara and Katsumi) new crew members. Perhaps they'll add more generic characters too (like Zaeed, who has almost no voiced story, he almost exclusively holds monologues).

#66
redguppie

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Escape convict? No, just no. The council was already aware you were working for TIM when they offered you reinstatement into Spectre status. Wasn't the entire point of that unit to do whatever it takes to get the job done? They may not like the idea of it, but that doesn't mean you will be arrested for it. If they wanted to arrest you for it then they could have done it when you were already on the citadel.



As for the alliance, they were aware to and for the most part the only bad interactions I had was the Virmire survuvor and Toombs. Anderson didn't have a problem with it and neither did Hatchett if his email is to go by. Keepp something in mind, Curberus was the one who originally pushed cooperation during the building of the original Normandy plus EVI states that several high ranking admirals are part of the financial support structure Cerburus. I have a feeling that TIM's organization isn't as "rogue" as the public likes to think and because for a hunted people, they do **** all to hide who they work for.

#67
Zulu_DFA

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Super_Fr33k wrote...

The trial idea for Shepard is non-sensical, at least as a starting point for ME3. If the Council didn't arrest Shepard for simply being with Cerberus when they first met, I don't see why they'd arrest him later, when he hasn't done anything significantly criminal since then. More over, I'm not sure they could avoid trying him publicly, and Shepard getting publicity means the Reapers getting publicity. The Council wants the galaxy complacent, and giving Shepard a microphone is a bad way to do that. A trial midway through ME3 might make sense, but not in the beginning.


He did nothing on the Council's behalf either. Ah, "Reapers"... They though him being delusional back there, when he wasn't a Cerberus's cyborg-zombie. Any Reason they could com up with. Like technically Shepard is the Alliance military and going AWOL for 2+ years. As for publicity, come on! Heard anything about "spectre justice"? It's not exaclty a democracy there on the Citadel. It'll be a closed hearing.

#68
Zulu_DFA

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Vanaer wrote...
 Also, what reason is there for Zaeed to stay? He only joined for the credits...


One word:

Credits.

#69
DogPark

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I agree with the "escaped convict" story idea. It's the best device to use to start a player 'from scratch' that isn't death or dream sequence.



Too many posters seem to think that trying Sheperd as an intergalactic criminal doesn't make sense, but everyone seems to think that roaming the galaxy with a band of criminals, terrorists, and mercenaries, and outright killing, stealing, and blowing up everything you want is entirely OK with the powers that be. In ME1, they took away your ship simply because the Ideas you were spreading were not popular and you were unable to be controlled. In the beginning of ME2, Anderson is covering for you, and your memory as a hero was useful for galactic order. Enough is enough. At some point, Sheperd has p***ed off enough powerful people and he needs to be dealt with.



Simply killing Sheperd 'again' would backfire if they failed. They will use his Cerberus activities to arrest him as a terrorist -- I wouldn't be surprised if they accuse him of being a 'fake', as everyone knows the 'real' Sheperd died. They could even say that he's ruining the good name of Sheperd.



I suspect a betrayal as well. Arrested while on shore leave, either while taking with Ashley/Kaiden, or Anderson.



Crew and Normandy get away. They come rescue you later, perhaps with Liara's help.



You begin the game as a wanted criminal. Initial missions are to get your crew and ship back.



Reaper attack won't happen while you're in jail, but I see it happening in the first quarter of the story.

#70
Ninjatroll

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The convict-plot actualy makes some sense. It would give the game a logical starting point and separate Shepard from the crew and the Normandy. They can't realy go down the same route as in ME2 again and I dont think they will start the game with a full crew. Someone in your crew betray you and poison you, and you end up in a prison like the one you found Jack in.

The most popular (Garrus, Tali, Legion, Thane, Miranda and Grunt perhaps) will probably be in (if they survived) and Ash/Kaidan an Liara aswell as as a few new ones. A Batarian, a Raloi? I doubt we will se a Vorcha thou.

I hope the plot will be something else than "gather all the forces in the univerese against the reapers". They basicly did that for Dragon Age and it would feel a little cheep. However I actualy think a large part of the game will be this. Or atleast convince the different galactic civilizations about their existance.

Modifié par Ninjatroll, 01 mars 2010 - 08:18 .


#71
Zulu_DFA

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DogPark wrote...
Too many posters seem to think that trying Sheperd as an intergalactic criminal doesn't make sense, but everyone seems to think that roaming the galaxy with a band of criminals, terrorists, and mercenaries, and outright killing, stealing, and blowing up everything you want is entirely OK with the powers that be. In ME1, they took away your ship simply because the Ideas you were spreading were not popular and you were unable to be controlled. In the beginning of ME2, Anderson is covering for you, and your memory as a hero was useful for galactic order. Enough is enough. At some point, Sheperd has p***ed off enough powerful people and he needs to be dealt with.


Just for the sake of this being posted twice.

#72
Super_Fr33k

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Zulu,



Like I said, everything you mentioned was already known when Shepard met them in ME3. And, yes, I did think of the possibility of a closed hearing. My point is that someone as significant, well-known and dangerous as Shepard shouldn't be captured or tried without word getting out. I also don't think anything Shepard did in ME2 could have tipped the scales enough that they would bring him/her in at the very beginning of the game.



Now, they could just send Spectres to eliminate him/her, but then we're not talking about a trial at all...

#73
Ninjatroll

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

DogPark wrote...
Too many posters seem to think that trying Sheperd as an intergalactic criminal doesn't make sense, but everyone seems to think that roaming the galaxy with a band of criminals, terrorists, and mercenaries, and outright killing, stealing, and blowing up everything you want is entirely OK with the powers that be. In ME1, they took away your ship simply because the Ideas you were spreading were not popular and you were unable to be controlled. In the beginning of ME2, Anderson is covering for you, and your memory as a hero was useful for galactic order. Enough is enough. At some point, Sheperd has p***ed off enough powerful people and he needs to be dealt with.


Just for the sake of this being posted twice.


Have to agree with this. Shepard and his crew might belive in the Reapers, (and Cerberus claim they do...). But most people don't. Most people doesn't even know what you did in ME2. A dead war hero turns up again with some of the worst murderers, psychopats, and assassins in the universe and to top it all a GETH... You left a trail of corpses all over the terminus system. You have three powerfull mercenary groups thats probably REALY angry with you. Most people would probably think Shepard gone rouge for real, and must be stoped. The more i think about it, the more sense does convict shepard make....

#74
Zulu_DFA

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Ninjatroll wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

DogPark wrote...
Too many posters seem to think that trying Sheperd as an intergalactic criminal doesn't make sense, but everyone seems to think that roaming the galaxy with a band of criminals, terrorists, and mercenaries, and outright killing, stealing, and blowing up everything you want is entirely OK with the powers that be. In ME1, they took away your ship simply because the Ideas you were spreading were not popular and you were unable to be controlled. In the beginning of ME2, Anderson is covering for you, and your memory as a hero was useful for galactic order. Enough is enough. At some point, Sheperd has p***ed off enough powerful people and he needs to be dealt with.


Just for the sake of this being posted twice.


Have to agree with this. Shepard and his crew might belive in the Reapers, (and Cerberus claim they do...). But most people don't. Most people doesn't even know what you did in ME2. A dead war hero turns up again with some of the worst murderers, psychopats, and assassins in the universe and to top it all a GETH... You left a trail of corpses all over the terminus system. You have three powerfull mercenary groups thats probably REALY angry with you. Most people would probably think Shepard gone rouge for real, and must be stoped. The more i think about it, the more sense does convict shepard make....


And, it would add a lot of thrill into the story.

Shepard on the run! Can you imagine that? Hero of the Battle of Citadel, Savior of the Galaxy, 1st Human SpecTRe, the face on Alliance's "Join up!" posters is redused to the status of miserable outlaw with everyone hunting him: Council, Alliance, possibly Cerberus, merc corps. And the Reapers are out there!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 mars 2010 - 08:38 .


#75
wako58

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Who is going to put you on trial? Your activities took place outside of Citadel Space in the Terminus Systems. The Council has no jurisdiction there. There is no central government to track you down and arrest you. The Council already reinstated your Spectre status and they are aware of your affiliation with Cerberus. None of your activities, to date, have caused a ripple in Citadel space. More importantly, what you did beyond the Omega IV relay, is more of a mystery than the "ah, yes reapers" comment from the turian ambassador.