296 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Super_Fr33k wrote...

Zulu,

Like I said, everything you mentioned was already known when Shepard met them in ME3.

This:

DogPark wrote...
Too many posters seem to think that trying Sheperd as an intergalactic criminal doesn't make sense, but everyone seems to think that roaming the galaxy with a band of criminals, terrorists, and mercenaries, and outright killing, stealing, and blowing up everything you want is entirely OK with the powers that be. In ME1, they took away your ship simply because the Ideas you were spreading were not popular and you were unable to be controlled. In the beginning of ME2, Anderson is covering for you, and your memory as a hero was useful for galactic order. Enough is enough. At some point, Sheperd has p***ed off enough powerful people and he needs to be dealt with.

.

...

Super_Fr33k wrote...
And, yes, I did think of the possibility of a closed hearing. My point is that someone as significant, well-known and dangerous as Shepard shouldn't be captured or tried without word getting out. I also don't think anything Shepard did in ME2 could have tipped the scales enough that they would bring him/her in at the very beginning of the game.

Turian Councilor: Ah... "someone as significant, well-known and dangerous as Shepard"... we have dismissed the claim.
And there you go, down the sewers...

Now, they could just send Spectres to eliminate him/her, but then we're not talking about a trial at all...

Hopefully, they are going with the trial option. Or else, TIM will have to come up with another 4 billion credits.

[MikeFL25]

Wako58 is correct. Shepard was doing his mission in the Terminus Systems, where the Council has no jurisdiction.



Also....what did Shepard do wrong? You say he was uncontrollable in ME1 so they needed to ground the Normandy, but then he turned out to be right all along and he saved the Citadel (and maybe the Council too).



Even if you allowed the Council to die, the human ambassador (Udina or Anderson) tells you that they wont interfere as long as you stay in the Terminus Systems. It doesn't matter whether the Council lived or died, but the Ambassador (and Council if they lived) make it blatantly clear that the only thing they disapprove of is the connection with Cerberus.



So, its pretty safe to assume that Shepard probably won't be working with Cerberus in ME3 (Paragon flat out tells TIM to screw off, Renegade saves the base but makes no promises, and even Renegades might blow up the base.) Once Shepard cuts his ties to TIM, he can stroll right on in to the Citadel with the SR2 and resume his Spectre/Alliance duties.



I am sure there are many ways BioWare could start ME3 with, I just don't agree that this is the right idea.

[redguppie]

Zulu_DFA wrote...



Hopefully, they are going with the trial option. Or else, TIM will have to come up with another 4 billion credits.

And that is assuming that they plan on you starting with nothing and no one.  something that through all this argueing hasn't even been shown to be true.  Your basing your opinion on an educated guess.

Also simply sending someone after him doesn't mean it will work.  It is a proven fact that everyone else in the gamaxy can't fight worth a damn.

Modifié par redguppie, 01 mars 2010 - 09:01 .

[Zulu_DFA]

wako58 wrote...

Who is going to put you on trial? Your activities took place outside of Citadel Space in the Terminus Systems. The Council has no jurisdiction there. There is no central government to track you down and arrest you. The Council already reinstated your Spectre status and they are aware of your affiliation with Cerberus. None of your activities, to date, have caused a ripple in Citadel space. More importantly, what you did beyond the Omega IV relay, is more of a mystery than the "ah, yes reapers" comment from the turian ambassador.

it's Councilor...

Read this again:

DogPark wrote...
Too many posters seem to think that trying Sheperd as an intergalactic criminal doesn't make sense, but everyone seems to think that roaming the galaxy with a band of criminals, terrorists, and mercenaries, and outright killing, stealing, and blowing up everything you want is entirely OK with the powers that be. In ME1, they took away your ship simply because the Ideas you were spreading were not popular and you were unable to be controlled. In the beginning of ME2, Anderson is covering for you, and your memory as a hero was useful for galactic order. Enough is enough. At some point, Sheperd has p***ed off enough powerful people and he needs to be dealt with.

Ceberus turned out to be not as bad, as most people once believed. In a couple of years Shepard may look in the Council's eyes not as harmless as before.

BTW, I believe, last time you saw them (if you saw them) your best friend and possible undercover Cerberus agent Donnel Udina bought your arse out just once more. Behind the scene, of course. But it's just me.

[Zulu_DFA]

redguppie wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...



Hopefully, they are going with the trial option. Or else, TIM will have to come up with another 4 billion credits.

And that is assuming that they plan on you starting with nothing and no one.  something that through all this argueing hasn't even been shown to be true.  Your basing your opinion on an educated guess.

Also simply sending someone after him doesn't mean it will work.  It is a proven fact that everyone else in the gamaxy can't fight worth a damn.

... when you assume control of Shepard, that is. When you release it, anything can happen to him...

And of course, this thread is only an assumption on my part. Everyone else knows that ME3 will be just an expansion pack for ME2, best game ever.

[MikeFL25]

I don't think BioWare needs a reason to start everyone off at level 1...that's just how RPG's are. Its expected. Granted, importing a save will probably get you up a few levels. I think its more likely that you will start with *some* of the ME2 cast, Joker, the SR2 and then travel to the Citadel to rejoin the Alliance/Council.

Also, keep in mind that Shepard has that Reaper datapad at the end of ME2, so he already has proof. Even if the Council chooses not to believe it, he can still point to it as evidence that he stopped the Collectors. He has Veetor's data, the SR2 ship data, hell, EDI has all the data the Council needs. Shepard has a lot of proof to back up what he says.

I personally like the idea of having an option to be a Cerberus double-agent. Paragons will already have told TIM to shove it, so that's not an issue. Even some renegades might have done the same. For the Paragon/Renegades who kept the base, I could see TIM telling Shepard to go rejoin the Council/Alliance but to work as a Cerberus agent from the inside. Those of you who are human-centric can oblige, while those who are more pro-Council/Alliance can decline.  And as I already said, people who told TIM to shove it wont have to worry because they will already have made their choice.  Either way, Shepard rejoins the Council/Alliance.

It would fit the story better than Shepard getting arrested for no reason other than he killed a few mercs.

Modifié par MikeFL25, 01 mars 2010 - 09:09 .

[redguppie]

terminus systems= not their business and not their problem, everything said and done in both games has pointed to that fact.

Cerberus= you were already one when you got offered reinstatement with the council, there only restriction was you sticking to terminus system which you did.



Actions while in the terminus= not under there jurisdiction and not harmful to the Council or alliance plans. They were all aware that human colonies were getting attacked, you stopped the attacks not really a punishable offense.

[Firmijn]

I like the ideas of the OP.

And maybe, if events turn out like this, it wil be (some of) your ME2 teammates that rescue you from court, with the help of either TIM/AndersonUdina/Aria depending on your previous actions?

[MikeFL25]

again...stupid internet browser...multiple posts

Modifié par MikeFL25, 01 mars 2010 - 09:24 .

[MikeFL25]

again...multiple posts....sorry everyone.

Modifié par MikeFL25, 01 mars 2010 - 09:30 .

[MikeFL25]

stupid internet browser...multiple posts

Modifié par MikeFL25, 01 mars 2010 - 09:23 .

[MikeFL25]

redguppie wrote...



terminus systems= not their business and not their problem, everything said and done in both games has pointed to that fact.

Cerberus= you were already one when you got offered reinstatement with the council, there only restriction was you sticking to terminus system which you did.



Actions while in the terminus= not under there jurisdiction and not harmful to the Council or alliance plans. They were all aware that human colonies were getting attacked, you stopped the attacks not really a punishable offense.

Exactly. Plus, the only reason the Council wanted you to stay in the Terminus Systems was because of Cerberus. No matter how ME2 ended, its almost certain that the player will not be working with Cerberus directly...or at all...in ME3.



I think a better option would be, as I posted above, for TIM to send Shep back to the Alliance/Council and ask him to work as a double agent for Cerberus. People who already told TIM to shove it get back to the Alliance anyway. People who saved the base can then decide to work secretly for TIM or not. Either way gets you back to the Alliance and Council.

[MikeFL25]

again...multiple posts....sorry everyone.

Modifié par MikeFL25, 01 mars 2010 - 09:32 .

[MikeFL25]

again...multiple posts....sorry everyone.

Modifié par MikeFL25, 01 mars 2010 - 09:31 .

[Zulu_DFA]

MikeFL25 wrote...

Wako58 is correct. Shepard was doing his mission in the Terminus Systems, where the Council has no jurisdiction.

Of course, big goverments never interfere with anything beyond their jurisdiction. Happy you, you seem to have no TV in your house.

Also....what did Shepard do wrong? You say he was uncontrollable in ME1 so they needed to ground the Normandy, but then he turned out to be right all along and he saved the Citadel (and maybe the Council too).

Even if you allowed the Council to die, the human ambassador (Udina or Anderson) tells you that they wont interfere as long as you stay in the Terminus Systems. It doesn't matter whether the Council lived or died, but the Ambassador (and Council if they lived) make it blatantly clear that the only thing they disapprove of is the connection with Cerberus.

The Council or Alliance may reconsider any minute they see fit. Without officially warning you in advance.

So, its pretty safe to assume that Shepard probably won't be working with Cerberus in ME3 (Paragon flat out tells TIM to screw off, Renegade saves the base but makes no promises, and even Renegades might blow up the base.) Once Shepard cuts his ties to TIM, he can stroll right on in to the Citadel with the SR2 and resume his Spectre/Alliance duties.

Sorry, *My* Sheard for instance has no reason to cut ties with TIM. Even those who have concerns about TIM's agenda see no other party capable of providing adequate support to *their* Shepard. First of all, the Normandy is the property of Cerberus, or maybe TIM's private property.

I am sure there are many ways BioWare could start ME3 with, I just don't agree that this is the right idea.

Like?

[MikeFL25]

redguppie wrote...

terminus systems= not their business and not their problem, everything said and done in both games has pointed to that fact.
Cerberus= you were already one when you got offered reinstatement with the council, there only restriction was you sticking to terminus system which you did.

Actions while in the terminus= not under there jurisdiction and not harmful to the Council or alliance plans. They were all aware that human colonies were getting attacked, you stopped the attacks not really a punishable offense.

Exactly.  Plus, the only reason the Council wanted you to stay in the Terminus Systems was because of Cerberus.  No matter how ME2 ended, its almost certain that the player will not be working with Cerberus directly...or at all...in ME3.

I think a better option would be, as I posted above, for TIM to send Shep back to the Alliance/Council and ask him to work as a double agent for Cerberus.  People who already told TIM to shove it get back to the Alliance anyway.  People who saved the base can then decide to work secretly for TIM or not.  Either way gets you back to the Alliance and Council.

[AK2EL]

Great idea! I support it ^^



mostly number 1 though.

[MikeFL25]

holy crap.  Sorry guys, my internet browser was wigging out and restarting.  My bad for all these duplicate posts.

Modifié par MikeFL25, 01 mars 2010 - 09:22 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Hmmm...



Did i sense here fear of the renegades that Bioware will made them pay for every "noble deeds" during ME 1/2 in ME 3?



If i recall correct there were couple official interviews about ME 3 saying that ME 3 will be DIRECT continuation of ME 3 whit all consequences of choices from ME 1 and ME 3 IF you import related save game, beside i am quite sure that ME 3 scenario was already written before work on ME 1 started and reason for another facial reconstruction in ME 2 was simply adapt face texture from ME1 to enhanced graphic capability of ME 2.



Honestly... all those QQers "I am sure Bioware will nerfed ME 3, They can't made us pay for all those renegade crimes we commit in both games... " slowly start to getting on my nerves lately... WHAT A HELL YOU REALLY WANT...??? a game where you can defeat Harbinger using wooden arrows and stone thrower???... I really hope that will NOT HAPPENED!



I seriously think that Bioware should LOCK OFF levels from Veteran Up for Mass Effect sunday players who will buy ME 3 without having not a slightest contact whit previous two games and those upper difficulty levels should be available ONLY for players whit imported ME1+ME2 saves.



Yes i am Alien lover because i preserved Rachni, saved Vrex on Virmire, showed Terra Firma my middle finger, OF COURSE SAVED Council and one more thing to pointed for all Council haters.

IT WAS UDINA who grounded Normandy in ME 1 not the Council because he was afraid of political backlash if people and especially press would start to ask questions about possible reapers threat.

beside when i analized his attitude toward Shepard during ME1 there was something troubling there.

What i saw was pure jealousy over political favorism which Council might granted Shepard if she will proof that threat is real... since all he was dreaming during ME 1 was to grab for himself seat in Council.

I would not be surprised if somehow will come out in ME 3 that during ME 1 Udina simply do everything what possible to destroyed Shepard's credibility in Council eyes and that's why i picked Anderson as Council member.

When comes to ME 2 i send data from captured Cerberus agent to Alliance Command (before i started SM so this will be noticed in my save), "converted" Miri on the Light Side and of course my Shepard tells Timmy KISS MY CAIN... before she blow up C-Station.



And about Squad mates, i already see some possible leaves:

Zaeed - i will not stop him from leave if i will have chance to bring Ash on board of the Normandy, Samara - her oath is fulfill so she will very possibly leave but i hope she will help my Shepard to rally Asari support and i hope Liara will replace her on Normandy.

Morodin - one Doc on board is in off but i hope Morodin will help me by gathering Salarian scientists to create new (possibly bio weapons) against reapers.

Thane - actually so far he is weakest element in this squad puzzle so i think he will be replaced by Kasumi.



Remaining team members:

Garrus - he have no reason to leave Normandy.

Miranda - until things whit Timmy and her quitting from Cerberus won't be sorted out i think she will remain on board.

Jacob - same as Miri.

Tali - here is 50/50, she might stay on board or return to flotilla and take her fathers place in Admirality board.

Legion - he might play role of Ambasador between Geth and the Quarians.

Jack - i think Normandy might become her first real home where nobody will actually abuse her abilities and i hope that in time she and Miri will come in terms.



To conclude.

I hope that both sides (Paragons and renegades) will recive true prize for all what they done in ME 1 and ME 2.

[MikeFL25]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Hmmm...

Did i sense here fear of the renegades that Bioware will made them pay for every "noble deeds" during ME 1/2 in ME 3?

If i recall correct there were couple official interviews about ME 3 saying that ME 3 will be DIRECT continuation of ME 3 whit all consequences of choices from ME 1 and ME 3 IF you import related save game, beside i am quite sure that ME 3 scenario was already written before work on ME 1 started and reason for another facial reconstruction in ME 2 was simply adapt face texture from ME1 to enhanced graphic capability of ME 2.

Honestly... all those QQers "I am sure Bioware will nerfed ME 3, They can't made us pay for all those renegade crimes we commit in both games... " slowly start to getting on my nerves lately... WHAT A HELL YOU REALLY WANT...??? a game where you can defeat Harbinger using wooden arrows and stone thrower???... I really hope that will NOT HAPPENED!

I seriously think that Bioware should LOCK OFF levels from Veteran Up for Mass Effect sunday players who will buy ME 3 without having not a slightest contact whit previous two games and those upper difficulty levels should be available ONLY for players whit imported ME1+ME2 saves.

Yes i am Alien lover because i preserved Rachni, saved Vrex on Virmire, showed Terra Firma my middle finger, OF COURSE SAVED Council and one more thing to pointed for all Council haters.
IT WAS UDINA who grounded Normandy in ME 1 not the Council because he was afraid of political backlash if people and especially press would start to ask questions about possible reapers threat.
beside when i analized his attitude toward Shepard during ME1 there was something troubling there.
What i saw was pure jealousy over political favorism which Council might granted Shepard if she will proof that threat is real... since all he was dreaming during ME 1 was to grab for himself seat in Council.
I would not be surprised if somehow will come out in ME 3 that during ME 1 Udina simply do everything what possible to destroyed Shepard's credibility in Council eyes and that's why i picked Anderson as Council member.
When comes to ME 2 i send data from captured Cerberus agent to Alliance Command (before i started SM so this will be noticed in my save), "converted" Miri on the Light Side and of course my Shepard tells Timmy KISS MY CAIN... before she blow up C-Station.

And about Squad mates, i already see some possible leaves:
Zaeed - i will not stop him from leave if i will have chance to bring Ash on board of the Normandy, Samara - her oath is fulfill so she will very possibly leave but i hope she will help my Shepard to rally Asari support and i hope Liara will replace her on Normandy.
Morodin - one Doc on board is in off but i hope Morodin will help me by gathering Salarian scientists to create new (possibly bio weapons) against reapers.
Thane - actually so far he is weakest element in this squad puzzle so i think he will be replaced by Kasumi.

Remaining team members:
Garrus - he have no reason to leave Normandy.
Miranda - until things whit Timmy and her quitting from Cerberus won't be sorted out i think she will remain on board.
Jacob - same as Miri.
Tali - here is 50/50, she might stay on board or return to flotilla and take her fathers place in Admirality board.
Legion - he might play role of Ambasador between Geth and the Quarians.
Jack - i think Normandy might become her first real home where nobody will actually abuse her abilities and i hope that in time she and Miri will come in terms.

To conclude.
I hope that both sides (Paragons and renegades) will recive true prize for all what they done in ME 1 and ME 2.

I agree with this. 

To the OP: I'm not fighting with you I am simply disagreeing with you.  There is no need to be rude just because I don't agree.

[Vanaer]

MikeFL25 wrote...

Wako58 is correct. Shepard was doing his mission in the Terminus Systems, where the Council has no jurisdiction.

Also....what did Shepard do wrong? You say he was uncontrollable in ME1 so they needed to ground the Normandy, but then he turned out to be right all along and he saved the Citadel (and maybe the Council too).

Even if you allowed the Council to die, the human ambassador (Udina or Anderson) tells you that they wont interfere as long as you stay in the Terminus Systems. It doesn't matter whether the Council lived or died, but the Ambassador (and Council if they lived) make it blatantly clear that the only thing they disapprove of is the connection with Cerberus.

So, its pretty safe to assume that Shepard probably won't be working with Cerberus in ME3 (Paragon flat out tells TIM to screw off, Renegade saves the base but makes no promises, and even Renegades might blow up the base.) Once Shepard cuts his ties to TIM, he can stroll right on in to the Citadel with the SR2 and resume his Spectre/Alliance duties.

I am sure there are many ways BioWare could start ME3 with, I just don't agree that this is the right idea.

You're absolutely on the spot here. It's too cliché to go through the 'oh noes, you lost everything' story again. Resetting is nice for once, but seriously ****ed up twice. Make sure the people new to ME, start with a canon Shepard, thus creating an incentive to play the previous games as well (for different playthroughs - new players to ME, started in ME2 without being able to talk to the council as well). 

I also think it's rather annoying to go through the whole process of teambuilding again, it constituted more than half of ME2. If we have to start from scratch we will be having this process again. I'm sorry, but I'm more interested in the story now. Perhaps a few pick ups (like the teammembers in ME1) along the line, but no more 'I'm psychotic and I want to blow up my youthhood trauma, even while millions of people get turned into goo' kind of missions.

[Kristofer1]

interesting ideas. i like the thought of being betrayed mid game and having to escape. being betrayed by a LI would be some major drama later in the game. like highschool or soap opera drama. not to keen on that.

[Zulu_DFA]

MikeFL25 wrote...

Wako58 is correct. Shepard was doing his mission in the Terminus Systems, where the Council has no jurisdiction.

Yes, and big governments never ever interfere with anything beyond the scope of their jurisdiction.

Also....what did Shepard do wrong? You say he was uncontrollable in ME1 so they needed to ground the Normandy, but then he turned out to be right all along and he saved the Citadel (and maybe the Council too).

Even if you allowed the Council to die, the human ambassador (Udina or Anderson) tells you that they wont interfere as long as you stay in the Terminus Systems. It doesn't matter whether the Council lived or died, but the Ambassador (and Council if they lived) make it blatantly clear that the only thing they disapprove of is the connection with Cerberus.

The Council or the Alliance can reconsider any minute, and just forget to warn you in advance.

So, its pretty safe to assume that Shepard probably won't be working with Cerberus in ME3 (Paragon flat out tells TIM to screw off, Renegade saves the base but makes no promises, and even Renegades might blow up the base.) Once Shepard cuts his ties to TIM, he can stroll right on in to the Citadel with the SR2 and resume his Spectre/Alliance duties.

Sorry, but *my* Shepard has no reason to cut ties to TIM. Neither does any that, having certain concerns about his agenda, sees no other party capable of providing adequate support. And, first of all, the Normandy is Cerberus property, or maybe TIM's private property, how about that?

I am sure there are many ways BioWare could start ME3 with.

Like?

I just don't agree that this is the right idea.

Why?
Does it not fit the requirements listed on page 1, or those requirements do not provide all players with equal start?
Or is it just you that do not see the reason of providing all players with equal start?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 mars 2010 - 09:47 .

[MikeFL25]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Why?
Does it not fit to the requirements listed on page 1, or those requirements do not provide all players with equal start?
Or is it just you that do not see the reason of providing all players with equal start?

Umm....my opinion?  It has nothing to do with giving players an equal start...I don't see where you get that from.  BioWare will start everyone off at level 1 again anyway.  If everyone died on your suicide mission, then you will probably get returning ME1 characters plus generics to fill in for those who died.  If everyone survived you mission, then great.  Also, those requirements are your speculation, they are not writen in stone.  My idea is my speculation, and they also are not written in stone.

The most important part of Mass Effect is the story.  I don't think "getting arrested" makes sense in the game world.  The Council has said a thousand times that they have no jurisdiction in the Terminus Systems. 

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you need to get all angry at me.  I just disagree.  I would rather BioWare give Shepard the option at the start of ME3 to work under cover for Cerberus if you saved the base, and then returning to the Council and Alliance to help Cerberus or not, or if you destroyed the base in ME2 then you just return to the Alliance and Council anyway.

EDIT: Also, ME3 is a trilogy and it is an accepted fact that decisions in ME1 and ME2 will carry over into ME3.  Players who never played ME1 or 2 will be given a default, but players who import will be able to carry on.  Why is this an issue?

Modifié par MikeFL25, 01 mars 2010 - 09:57 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Asheer_Khan wrote...
and reason for another facial reconstruction in ME 2 was simply adapt face texture from ME1 to enhanced graphic capability of ME 2.

Facial reconstruction absolutely necessary! I need a shave and a new haircut! No way femsheps will be happy with the same facial make-up as 2 years before!