296 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Vanaer wrote...
I also think it's rather annoying to go through the whole process of teambuilding again, it constituted more than half of ME2. If we have to start from scratch we will be having this process again.

This assumption has absolutely no ground. In ME1 there was no recruitment, nor loyalty crap.

Kristofer1 wrote...

interesting ideas. i like the thought of being betrayed mid game and having to escape. being betrayed by a LI would be some major drama later in the game. like highschool or soap opera drama. not to keen on that.

I giggled.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 mars 2010 - 10:07 .

[Zulu_DFA]

MikeFL25 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Why?
Does it not fit to the requirements listed on page 1, or those requirements do not provide all players with equal start?
Or is it just you that do not see the reason of providing all players with equal start?

Umm....my opinion?  It has nothing to do with giving players an equal start...I don't see where you get that from.  BioWare will start everyone off at level 1 again anyway.  If everyone died on your suicide mission, then you will probably get returning ME1 characters plus generics to fill in for those who died.  If everyone survived you mission, then great.  Also, those requirements are your speculation, they are not writen in stone.  My idea is my speculation, and they also are not written in stone.

The most important part of Mass Effect is the story.  I don't think "getting arrested" makes sense in the game world.  The Council has said a thousand times that they have no jurisdiction in the Terminus Systems. 

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you need to get all angry at me.  I just disagree.  I would rather BioWare give Shepard the option at the start of ME3 to work under cover for Cerberus if you saved the base, and then returning to the Council and Alliance to help Cerberus or not, or if you destroyed the base in ME2 then you just return to the Alliance and Council anyway.

EDIT: Also, ME3 is a trilogy and it is an accepted fact that decisions in ME1 and ME2 will carry over into ME3.  Players who never played ME1 or 2 will be given a default, but players who import will be able to carry on.  Why is this an issue?

I see your point, and I think it has something to it. It's just not so ... twisty. Not the way they start games these days.
Besides, given your "double agent" option from the very start, how will the newbies know, where their loyalties are?
But, if Shepard starts on his own, they'll have some game time to adapt to the game world and decide for themselves, who is what.

I expect ME3 to be much more linear, even more of a shooter, then ME2. Truthfully, I think the exploration (I Ioved the Mako) in ME3 will be quite unnecessary. And all the major choices will kick in in the end, when Shepard will have to decide where his loyalties are (Council/Alliance/Cerberus), if it is an issue at all.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 mars 2010 - 10:24 .

[iNixiRir]

Well, the Normandy is already equipped with a tool that completely removes your scars. If it can do that, it can also reconstruct your face. So it's also possible that Shepard gets hit in the face on a mission and that they 'fix' his face. You remember Garrus who got shot in the face - but unlike Garrus, Shepards face can still be saved from ugliness(or not - thinking of Ugly Shepard now). This all happens at the beginning so that people can edit their look.

[Fjordgnu]

I like the OP. You've got the right idea. I think the Geth appearing to save Shepard would be the most satisfying and creative option.



.. given that they would have ample time before the Reapers appear .. Quarians and Geth together? I must explore this option.

[Fjordgnu]

Argh, double post.

Modifié par Fjordgnu, 01 mars 2010 - 10:33 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Fjordgnu wrote...

I like the OP. You've got the right idea. I think the Geth appearing to save Shepard would be the most satisfying and creative option.

It's also the best option in terms of drama /Mordin's voice.
The circle is complete and Shepard takes Saren's place.

But I don't think it's likely. If this was the case, they wouldn't have given us an option not to activate Legion.

[superimposed]

You know, the don't have to come up with a gimmick in order to Justify restarting your skills. It's a seperate game, which means there will be people buying ME:3 who haven't bought the first two. The game will have to be designed with that in mind.
Nor do they need a gimmick to have you create/recreate your character. They could do an ME:1 and have it be a "data file" that you amend.

[wako58]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

MikeFL25 wrote...

Wako58 is correct. Shepard was doing his mission in the Terminus Systems, where the Council has no jurisdiction.

Of course, big goverments never interfere with anything beyond their jurisdiction. Happy you, you seem to have no TV in your house.

Also....what did Shepard do wrong? You say he was uncontrollable in ME1 so they needed to ground the Normandy, but then he turned out to be right all along and he saved the Citadel (and maybe the Council too).

Even if you allowed the Council to die, the human ambassador (Udina or Anderson) tells you that they wont interfere as long as you stay in the Terminus Systems. It doesn't matter whether the Council lived or died, but the Ambassador (and Council if they lived) make it blatantly clear that the only thing they disapprove of is the connection with Cerberus.

The Council or Alliance may reconsider any minute they see fit. Without officially warning you in advance.

So, its pretty safe to assume that Shepard probably won't be working with Cerberus in ME3 (Paragon flat out tells TIM to screw off, Renegade saves the base but makes no promises, and even Renegades might blow up the base.) Once Shepard cuts his ties to TIM, he can stroll right on in to the Citadel with the SR2 and resume his Spectre/Alliance duties.

Sorry, *My* Sheard for instance has no reason to cut ties with TIM. Even those who have concerns about TIM's agenda see no other party capable of providing adequate support to *their* Shepard. First of all, the Normandy is the property of Cerberus, or maybe TIM's private property.

I am sure there are many ways BioWare could start ME3 with, I just don't agree that this is the right idea.

Like?

So who is bringing charges against Shephard and for what?  The only 2 possible options are Thane and Jack.  Who else is a criminal that is wanted by the Citadel?  At the end of Thane's loyalty quest the C-Sec commander, at Shep's suggestion, says the guy (Thane) that killed all those bad people 10 years ago is probably dead. Thane is indeed dieing.  End of that trial possibilty.

Jack was being legitimately turned over, into Shep's custody, when the warden decided he could make more money with Shep instead. Once that happened the only option was to let all the prisoners go to free Jack.  That is the one and only possibility for a trial.  One of the released prisoners, say the guy who sent Shep the email, does something heinous, but you're sitll a Spectre.

The majority of your missions involve killing mercenaries.  Shep's not going on trial for that.  By the way, the entire Council approved Shep's reinstatement not just Anderson.

[Asheer_Khan]

I noticed something very interesting in my pre SM visit on Citadel .
There was a news about Sidonis surrendered to C-Sec and asking for the trial because what he did on Omega but his request was turned down because Omega was outside Citadel Jurisdiction, so i seriously don't see any possibility for Shepard's trial unless Shadow Broker will "produce" some evidence blackmailing Shepard  in off to convince Council that Shepard really gone rogue so they will strip him/her from Spectre status in order to put him/her on trial because without this Shepard as Spectre will be untouchable.

But i think we will get chance to have "small talk" whit Shadow Broker before ME 3 will come.

I doubt that "Prugatory Incident " could be used as reason for Shepard's trial because middle smart defence lawyer would drag on the light fact that Prugatory was used as slave market and his "Director" was not saint as well, beside if i am not mistaken that ship prison was located within Citadel Space where slavery was strictly forbidden.
So i am more as sure that Council will do everything what possible to silence that case in order to avoid a galaxy wide political scandal.

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 02 mars 2010 - 12:45 .

[FlyinElk212]

OP: You've definitely got the right idea. I could easily see Bioware opting to take a path similar to this.

From a game developing standpoint, any storyline function that streamlines players into a single choice is the best optimal route. And your mock opening does that quite nicely, and believably, if you ask me.

Mass Effect is a story of two opposing forces: the Geth vs. the Quarians, the Salarians vs. the Krogan, the Alliance vs. Cerberus. It only makes sense that the third game has you working by yourself, as a third party candidate, struggling to unite all these quarreling forces against a bigger threat, the Reapers.

Your opening not only plays to this ideal, but it incorporates player decisions, brings meaning to old characters, and successfully implements new squadmates (if Bioware deems it necessary to do so). So uh, why don't we just go ahead and forward this thread to the Devs...lol

[SmokePants]

The writer's can INVENT a reason for Sheperd to be apprehended and tried. I mean, come on, people. If I had told you the Normandy was going to get taken out in ME2 while in Stealth mode, you'd have all been whining that it was impossible. No race has that technology. Collectors? Who they? INVENTED!

Modifié par SmokePants, 02 mars 2010 - 01:01 .

[Zulu_DFA]

wako58 wrote...
So who is bringing charges against Shephard and for what?  

1. Going AWOL for 2+ years
2. Tax dodge
3. Public disturbance
4. Abuse of authority
5. Forgery (how many of you paragons missed an opportunity to help that Asari leave Citadel?)
6. Smuggling
7. Grand Theft Spacecraft (for those who told TIM to "shove it")

Seriously: ANYTHING the Council/Alliance/BioWare come up with between ME2 and ME3.

The question is not: on what charges... the question is simply why? And the answer is very simple: Shepard is becoming dangerous. They don't believe in Reapers and any "evidence" you come up with will be treated like in ME1. They'll think you want to drag them into war with the Terminus Systems over some horror myth, and then hit them with some mercenary army of Geth, Quarians, Batarians, Krogans, Rachni, you know, all the buddies you made from "beyond their jurisdiction".

And the trial will not be made public. Just a family meeting: You, Anderson/Udina, and the Turian Councillor. And no lawyer for Shepard.

[Zulu_DFA]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

So uh, why don't we just go ahead and forward this thread to the Devs...lol

Lol indeed!
Technically every letter you type here is BioWare property...
There's just too many lettars to make sense of.

[FlyinElk212]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

So uh, why don't we just go ahead and forward this thread to the Devs...lol

Lol indeed!
Technically every letter you type here is BioWare property...
There's just too many lettars to make sense of.

Dear god, EVERY letter??

I've GOT to stop with the penis jokes in every other post.....

[wako58]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wako58 wrote...
So who is bringing charges against Shephard and for what?  

1. Going AWOL for 2+ years
2. Tax dodge
3. Public disturbance
4. Abuse of authority
5. Forgery (how many of you paragons missed an opportunity to help that Asari leave Citadel?)
6. Smuggling
7. Grand Theft Spacecraft (for those who told TIM to "shove it")

Seriously: ANYTHING the Council/Alliance/BioWare come up with between ME2 and ME3.

The question is not: on what charges... the question is simply why? And the answer is very simple: Shepard is becoming dangerous. They don't believe in Reapers and any "evidence" you come up with will be treated like in ME1. They'll think you want to drag them into war with the Terminus Systems over some horror myth, and then hit them with some mercenary army of Geth, Quarians, Batarians, Krogans, Rachni, you know, all the buddies you made from "beyond their jurisdiction".

And the trial will not be made public. Just a family meeting: You, Anderson/Udina, and the Turian Councillor. And no lawyer for Shepard.

I understand your opinion that a trial would be a great opening act but i just don't see it happening.  To address your points:

1.  The Council already knows this and if they were inclined to do something they could have done it already.
2.   good laugh...next.
3.  Shep's done this more times the I can count.
4.  He's a Spectre...you're kidding right.
5.  You know you can go talk to the customs officer and never use those forged ID's......next.
6.  You already smuggled on Noveria if you helped the hanar; if still in doubt see #4......next.
7.   There is no way the Council is bringing you in for screwing Cerberus.

A trial may make for great drama I just don't see how it get's set up.

[Asheer_Khan]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wako58 wrote...
So who is bringing charges against Shephard and for what?  

1. Going AWOL for 2+ years

Easy to proof absence reason if Miranda will be whit you since She was a head of the Lazarus cell

2. Tax dodge

Look above.

3. Public disturbance

In what sense?

4. Abuse of authority

To stop OBVIOUS abuse authority by C-Sec by racial based false charges against innocent Quarian?

Please be so "nice" and give us other examples NON RENEGADE when Shepard abuses his/her authority

5. Forgery (how many of you paragons missed an opportunity to help that Asari leave Citadel?)

In my case i used my charm skill (it was after SM so my paragon bar was full) to tell that C-Sec custom that those Asari are definitively NOT Geth (so i remain after that sub quest whit bunch off useless papers.)

6. Smuggling

Huh? (wrong universe ) I didn't done that Hanar quest on Noveria so no charges in my case.

7. Grand Theft Spacecraft (for those who told TIM to "shove it")

My Shepard didn't ask for job by Cerberus so i just pay Timmy what he deserves,
And if he try to made any move against me... i am sure that EDI have in her databank many "interesting" informations regarding Timmy and his organizaton to shuit him down permanently.
And of course those files i retrived from dead agent and sended to Alliance HQ perhaps will contributued to eliminate Cerberus as well.

Seriously: ANYTHING the Council/Alliance/BioWare come up with between ME2 and ME3.

The question is not: on what charges... the question is simply why? And the answer is very simple: Shepard is becoming dangerous. They don't believe in Reapers and any "evidence" you come up with will be treated like in ME1. They'll think you want to drag them into war with the Terminus Systems over some horror myth, and then hit them with some mercenary army of Geth, Quarians, Batarians, Krogans, Rachni, you know, all the buddies you made from "beyond their jurisdiction".

And the trial will not be made public. Just a family meeting: You, Anderson/Udina, and the Turian Councillor. And no lawyer for Shepard.

I have friend in C-Sec and he can inform Emily Wong (Citadel News reporter) and she can start asking very uncomfortable for Council questions if they will try made any move against hero of the Citadel.
And believe me or not but lat thing what politics want is a bad press.

On the side note.

I really fail to understand why Bioware should take any kind of action like you posted against PARAGON players.
This will ruined not only whole series but Bioware's credibility, bur somehow i understand where comes such "propositions" .
Renegade cerberus lovers just cant stand fact that Paragons might have much bigger bennefit from Bioware by making final battle whit the Reapers much easier for them because of much bigger Alliance support than renegades will ever have and because of that made thier ME 3 outcome (aka beat reapers) much difficult to achieve.
But if you sign deal whit the devil  be prepare for consequences of such....

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 02 mars 2010 - 01:37 .

[FlyinElk212]

wako58 wrote...

I understand your opinion that a trial would be a great opening act but i just don't see it happening...

...A trial may make for great drama I just don't see how it get's set up.

The reason for Shepard being put on trial is trivial. The Council can come up with a number of reasons for this to occur.

The real issue, as correctly stated by Zulu, is WHY the Council wants to but him on trial. And that answer is that they no longer trust Commander Shepard, and view him as a threat. To them, Shepard's a Spectre gone rogue who's not following their orders. He's been galavanting through the Terminus systems, currently houses a ton of deadly killers (not to mention he could be housing a GETH), and was confirmed to be working for Cerberus, a group that most view no differently than terrorist.

Wanting to bring Shepard in just makes sense for them, as they can no longer trust him. When it comes to what exactly they're charging him with, the issue is as trivial as Tali's charge for HER trial. Everybody knows this wasn't about Tali and her loyalty to the fleet: it was about whether or not the Quarians should go to war.

[wako58]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

wako58 wrote...

I understand your opinion that a trial would be a great opening act but i just don't see it happening...

...A trial may make for great drama I just don't see how it get's set up.

The reason for Shepard being put on trial is trivial. The Council can come up with a number of reasons for this to occur.

The real issue, as correctly stated by Zulu, is WHY the Council wants to but him on trial. And that answer is that they no longer trust Commander Shepard, and view him as a threat. To them, Shepard's a Spectre gone rogue who's not following their orders. He's been galavanting through the Terminus systems, currently houses a ton of deadly killers (not to mention he could be housing a GETH), and was confirmed to be working for Cerberus, a group that most view no differently than terrorist.

Wanting to bring Shepard in just makes sense for them, as they can no longer trust him. When it comes to what exactly they're charging him with, the issue is as trivial as Tali's charge for HER trial. Everybody knows this wasn't about Tali and her loyalty to the fleet: it was about whether or not the Quarians should go to war.

You've been dead for 2 years and resurrected by Cerberus an "avowed enemy of the Council".  Why isn't Shep arrested immediately if they're inclined to do so?  Hell, you fly to the Citadel on a ship with Cerberus crew and Cerberus markings all over the damn thing.  They restore Shep's Spectre status and tell him to confine his activities to the Terminus systems; which he does.  Why does it make sense now to bring Shep in after they've restored his status and given him free reign in the Terminus?

Sorry, I just don't see it and I don't see it as a viable option to start ME3.  If you played a paragon Shep there is no way to generate such an event without serious off screen, off game, BS.

Modifié par wako58, 02 mars 2010 - 01:55 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Asheer_Khan wrote...
I have friend in C-Sec and he can inform Emily Wong (Citadel News reporter) and she can start asking very uncomfortable for Council questions if they will try made any move against hero of the Citadel.
And believe me or not but lat thing what politics want is a bad press.

On the side note.

I really fail to understand why Bioware should take any kind of action like you posted against PARAGON players.
This will ruined not only whole series but Bioware's credibility, bur somehow i understand where comes such "propositions" .
Renegade cerberus lovers just cant stand fact that Paragons might have much bigger bennefit from Bioware by making final battle whit the Reapers much easier for them because of much bigger Alliance support than renegades will ever have and because of that made thier ME 3 outcome (aka beat reapers) much difficult to achieve.
But if you sign deal whit the devil  be prepare for consequences of such....

1. It's hilarious how two of you took seriously those 7 charges I listed, when I specifically put the word "seriously" after the list...

2. If you wan't to know my opinion on "choices" and "biting in the arse", feel free to click on the link in my signature. To make it short, I practically pray that the choices do have real impact on the ME3 outcome. Sadly, there are a lot of paragons shivering on the thought that *their* choices might bite them. If the impact is real, it'll be practically even on paragon/renegade scale...

3. Considering Emily Wong and corrupt C-Sec I think it's exactly the best reason for the Council to ask (secretly) the Alliance Brass procecute you somwhere far away from reporters, somewhere Guantanamo-like... On the preposterous charges of going AWOL.

The actual reason for incarceration remains the same. Shepard is clearly out of his wits and is freaking dangerous.

[wako58]

@Zulu_DFA



You put so much time into that post that I thought you were serious. Again, I understand your point and appreciate the weight behind such a proceeding. I'm just having a hard time getting Shep to that point given my paragon playthrough and the choices my Shep made.

[Zulu_DFA]

wako58 wrote...

@Zulu_DFA

You put so much time into that post that I thought you were serious. Again, I understand your point and appreciate the weight behind such a proceeding. I'm just having a hard time getting Shep to that point given my paragon playthrough and the choices my Shep made.

Remember, default/canon ShepLoo isn't paragon at all.

Then, give me 5 your best paragon choices, and I'll find the reason for the Turian Councillor to be unhappy with at least 3 of them.

[redguppie]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wako58 wrote...

@Zulu_DFA

You put so much time into that post that I thought you were serious. Again, I understand your point and appreciate the weight behind such a proceeding. I'm just having a hard time getting Shep to that point given my paragon playthrough and the choices my Shep made.

Remember, default/canon ShepLoo isn't paragon at all.

Then, give me 5 your best paragon choices, and I'll find the reason for the Turian Councillor to be unhappy with at least 3 of them.

Even if you do give reasons that the turian councillor won't like them, that doesnt' mean he can do anything about it.  He hasn't liked you from the beginning yet you were still reinstated and allowed to walk right back to your ship.  His opinion is simply one of the four ruling body not th most important one.  Hell what is wrong with simply starting at omega station for instead of inventing a gimmick to add more "drama".

[FlyinElk212]

wako58 wrote...

Why does it make sense now to bring Shep in after they've restored his status and given him free reign in the Terminus?

Sorry, I just don't see it and I don't see it as a viable option to start ME3.  If you played a paragon Shep there is no way to generate such an event without serious off screen, off game, BS.

Shepard's main role in ME3 is going to be uniting everyone in the galaxy to fend off the Reapers. It's not too far out of wack to believe Shepard will try to acquire the Council's assistance as well.

The Council knows Shepard is a "do at all costs" sort of guy. It's also clear that the Council believes this "Reaper" claim is a farce. If what Shep's doing directly conflicts them, it would probably be in their best interests to lock him up and ensure that he doesn't become a liability or a threat to the "peace" on the Citadel. Seeing the team Shepard's acquired probably won't help his case, either.

[Zulu_DFA]

redguppie wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wako58 wrote...

@Zulu_DFA

You put so much time into that post that I thought you were serious. Again, I understand your point and appreciate the weight behind such a proceeding. I'm just having a hard time getting Shep to that point given my paragon playthrough and the choices my Shep made.

Remember, default/canon ShepLoo isn't paragon at all.

Then, give me 5 your best paragon choices, and I'll find the reason for the Turian Councillor to be unhappy with at least 3 of them.

Even if you do give reasons that the turian councillor won't like them, that doesnt' mean he can do anything about it.  He hasn't liked you from the beginning yet you were still reinstated and allowed to walk right back to your ship.  His opinion is simply one of the four ruling body not th most important one.  Hell what is wrong with simply starting at omega station for instead of inventing a gimmick to add more "drama".

But the Turian Councillor is kinda a bit more influential a figure, then some "1st human spectre", who had been considered mentally unstable even before he was dead and then brought back in a most mysterious way by an apparently rogue ShadowOps division of Human military. And that means the Turian can easily sway at least two old Council races representatives to accept his point of view. Udina could handle it but he doesn't seem to believe in Reaper threat himself, and Anderson... Who's Andeson? A failed spectre candidate with no political wit whatsoever.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 02 mars 2010 - 02:51 .

[redguppie]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

redguppie wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

wako58 wrote...

@Zulu_DFA

You put so much time into that post that I thought you were serious. Again, I understand your point and appreciate the weight behind such a proceeding. I'm just having a hard time getting Shep to that point given my paragon playthrough and the choices my Shep made.

Remember, default/canon ShepLoo isn't paragon at all.

Then, give me 5 your best paragon choices, and I'll find the reason for the Turian Councillor to be unhappy with at least 3 of them.

Even if you do give reasons that the turian councillor won't like them, that doesnt' mean he can do anything about it.  He hasn't liked you from the beginning yet you were still reinstated and allowed to walk right back to your ship.  His opinion is simply one of the four ruling body not th most important one.  Hell what is wrong with simply starting at omega station for instead of inventing a gimmick to add more "drama".

But the Turian Councillor is kinda a bit more influential a figure, then some "1st human spectre", who had been considered mentally unstable even before he was dead and then brought back in a most mysterious way by an apparently rogue ShadowOps division of Human military. And that means the Turian can easily sway at least two old Council races representatives to accept his point of view. Udina could handle it but he doesn't seem to believe in Reaper threat himself, and Anderson... Who's Andeson? A failed spectre candidate with no political wit whatsoever.

Actually it goes Anderson that other councilor who was a spectre candidate.  And no one gets to that level in the military without a level of political wit.  Udina is a sniveling worm who would backbedal if he thought he couldnt win an arguement.  Anderson has some personal honor, he would do what he thought was right regardless of the consequences.