56 réponses à ce sujet

[Akinra]

Kim Stolz wrote...

I realize you guys aren't in game design so I can understand that you think this is an easy fix that we could do in a day. It's not, this would require changing the entire system. We'd have months of changes going into indeterminate testing to make sure it worked we'd basically be retesting the entire game, all of the saves up until this point would still not be copyable and you'd have to make new saves anyway.So I'm sorry if you aren't happy with the current system. This is noted, but the odds of the system seeing any changes is very minimal and the odds of big changes are almost non existant.

Firstly, thank you for providing feedback. It is greatly appreciated that Bioware do respond to issues that are raised.

And I do realize it's not possible to change the system. However, as someone who has spent their hard earned money on your game (and it is an excellent game), I feel I am within my rights to raise concerns over issues that I feel are important. Even though it can't be changed, I still feel it is important to point out that this was a bad design choice. I don't know how many of you guys at Bioware actually own and play 360s at home, but if you do I'm sure you're well aware of how frustrating they can be. For example, I was playing Fallout 3 a year or two ago and had put in over 100 hours of gameplay when my Xbox failed on me. I ended up losing all my saves including the 100 hours of Fallout 3.

Now I don't how many years it will be before ME3 comes out, but with the prevelance of Xbox failures (for whatever reason, and there are many) I would take a guess that a lot of ME2 owners consoles will fail at least once between now and then. That's why I feel it was a bad design choice to not allow save backups. 

[ArmeniusLOD]

I think the reasoning of having faster saves and more saves for not allowing copies of careers a little disingenuous. File copying is a very basic process which I can't understand as being difficult to implement. If the problem is reading both devices at the same time, then why do I have to select a save device when I start the game? Why not just read from one device at a time? I also do not see what the problem is with having multiple copies of your career. I'm sure on PC there is absolutely no problem with backing up your files (because it's a PC ).



On that note, I could be wrong because I have no idea how the OS or file system on the Xbox 360 works. On another note, I am familiar with game design, just not on consoles. To lock out files from copying would actually require a lot more work, not less. On Xbox it probably just requires a flag to be set, considering how Microsoft finds it necessary to tie your data to the console instead of your profile.

[Mach7-7]

Imagine if Microsoft did the same thing with Word:

"Ok, we have decided to make the newer version faster and easier for you to save. However, if your Hard Drive fails, well that's just too bad because of how we constructed the "new" version of Word. Oh, you can "move" your files to a USB flash drive, because it's more stable, but you still can only have your documents on one device at a time. And if you don't like it? Well, you obviously aren't a programmer or designer, so you just can't understand why your ideas won't work, won't be changed and seem pretty dumb (even thought it worked on the last version of Word)."

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. ME2 is an excellent game, but Bioware has explicitly chosen not to care about allowing people to back up their games. They figure that maybe only 1% of people would be doing that so why bother? However, a very small percentage of people back up their computers, but they should and this is stressed all the time. Games may seem trivial in comparison to important word documents, but some may disagree, especially when these game saves/careers can consume hours/days of people's time.

Bioware has chosen to ignore this and like I've mentioned before, if this was just one game, it wouldn't be as bad. But this is a trilogy spanning over many years and on a console that is known for hardware failure.

I appreciate that Kim has responded to this issue, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. Removing the backup option for ME2 was a bad move.

Modifié par Mach7-7, 27 février 2010 - 02:52 .

[Akinra]

Mach7-7 wrote...

Bioware has chosen to ignore this and like I've mentioned before, if this was just one game, it wouldn't be as bad. But this is a trilogy spanning over many years and on a console that is known for hardware failure.

.

This is the key point for me. It just defies logic as to why Bioware would think this was a good idea

[Cornelian]

As I can see, Shepard doesn't risk is life only into the game, but can loose it in a disk wreckage.



This issue can invalid one of the two major new features of this game, i think.

[trickfred]

Make two saves every time you save. Move one of each save to your MU. Problem solved, without months of recoding and testing.

[nepenthinator]

The explanations provided by Ms. Stoltz are what might be charitably referred to as "a steaming pile of crap." Copying files is trivial, pretending otherwise is deceitful, and patting us on the head and telling us not to worry our pretty little heads about it is condescending nonsense.



If the addle-pated ninnehammers at Bioware can't see fit to allow me to copy my game (one of the single most basic functions imaginable), I don't see any reason to waste any more money on their products.



Deleting my Shepard now, so I won't be even tempted to buy ME3...

[ramdog7]

wat about a transfer kit?

will me saves work if i move my memory form one hard drive to another?

[AlexTest]

I've tried it. Doesn't work and I wasn't even trying to make a copy... just move to a bigger HDD!

I did use XPort for the transfer. Has anyone tried doing it with the Microsoft transfer software?

[Kim Stolz]

Thank you nepenthinator for giving a perfect example of the kind of nonsense we don't tolerate on the Bioware forums. For the record as well I'm Mr. Stolz and disliking my explanations are one thing being rude about it is another. I realize a lot of people are unhappy about this save process. Thank you all for your input. I didn't mean to seem condescending but I just passed on the explanation that was given to me when I asked on all of your behalf.If I hear anything else I'll let you know.

[touchmypenguinagain]

Add me to the concerned list, this is a pain in the arse. You can't try and encourage a community to get invested in your trilogy and spend 10's of hours on playthroughs to then not take the communitie's game saves seriously. I just finished the game at 30 hours and now i can't back up my game save like i could in ME1. I'm on my 4th 360, everytime the console had failed it was within the store warranty and i had to return the hard drive along with the console. ME2 won't be out for at least a couple of years by which time i will have hopefuly moved to Canada and will no doubt have purchased at least 1 more 360 console. If i move my career to my memory unit and then that gets corrupted, broken or lost i lose all my progress in your trilogy and all connection with the world, its characters and my choices.



In addition, it took all these users coming onto the forum to realise that while we couldn't copy our saves we could move our careers to a MU. This information really should be provided to the user in a more convenient way through the game or instruction manual.

[Unit-Alpha]

Must other games allow a single source to be recognized but still allow copies (in fact, ME/ME2 are the only two games I own that have this issue.) So, could we get it in ME3 at least?

[ACC3SS]

Hi Kim,

I understand where you're coming from. I also understand that you're just passing this info along to us. I just wanted to state that I think this system is a bit short-sighted.

The technically-inclined users know the importance of data redundancy. For a game that requires save files spanning 4 years, Mass Effect is the most obvious candidate for Xbox's redundancy feature. I'm a bit disappointed in the design choice, and I hope that things are cleared up for Mass Effect 3

EDIT: Yes, I'm resurrecting this thread. I'm sure I won't be the only person who tried to copy their ME2 save file today.

Modifié par ACC3SS, 06 avril 2010 - 08:38 .

[Sunyavadin]

How is a MU more stable than a HD? Surely it has a limited number of write-erase cycles that makes it MORE likely your data will eventually corrupt?

[Roskov2007]

No, your not alone ACC3SS..I try to do the same today and I'm really dissapointed with this issue. I just want to back up my saved on my 16GB USB like i did for all my other games just in case my 360 fail....

[Greenhelm]

I can understand most of your decisions concerning this game, but this decision seems to be a very odd choice. This is the only game I know of that does this. I think if you guys put in the effort to allow save transfers, some people may even pay for it.

[Higgledy2]

I'd restarted my two main careers in order to play them both through for a second time so I've moved up my completed runs to a USB stick and kept the newly start runs on the Xbox hard drive. It's a good solution for me (one of my main concerns is preserving the look of my characters.)



Thanks for the info in this spread.

[omikron199]

Oh no



I just bought 250 gb hdd and used transfer kit from MS. My old 20g hdd is now blank and my both ME2 careers are corrupted?



What the hell?

They were lasting from ME1 with all dlc and there were different classes and different decisions made at key points in game. And now I cannot use them?



Why?

This isn't just right.



How can I play my careers again?

[simrace2]

I know Bioware isn't going to change things so we can backup our save games, but I have to say this was a terrible decision. The Xbox360 is notoriously unreliable and to potentially lose multiple character saves that have taken hundreds of hours of gameplay to create because of a hard drive going bad is disappointing to say the least. Please find a different way to handle game saves in the future so that we can backup files for peace of mind.

[Kroesis-]

Why don't you move them to a memory stick if you want to keep them safe? In fact there may be a way of using that Modius (can't remember the name) program to make copies of the saves.

[Latharion]

Kroesis- wrote...

Why don't you move them to a memory stick if you want to keep them safe? In fact there may be a way of using that Modius (can't remember the name) program to make copies of the saves.

Because the problem still exists, and now you've just traded one problem for another (HD vs Stick).  Failures still occur, and to expect a piece of hardware to survive with data intact is reckless for a company.  Given Microsoft's track record with hardware failure rates, a company that expects data to be carried over to multiple games should include a way to ensure the safety of that data.  A simply backup proceedure of some kind would have made more sense than simply claiming that it was "too difficult to easily accompllish".  Perhaps some kind of archival option that takes the save data, compresses it, and then stores it somewhere might be an idea for Bioware.  The data would not usable through the game (eliminating one of the inherent problems), and would still be able to be retrieved at a later date.  The option could be added to ME2, and the option to read the data could then be included in ME3.

Also, depending on a third-party application to make a backup of console data, and expecting the "average" user to use said third-party application is also unwise.  Problems can, and will, occur with this process.  What happens if the application is no longer supported by it's creator, or Microsoft decides to block it's use (which has actually happened before)?  I am not saying players shouldn't use the application, but I am saying that Bioware cannot count on them using it, nor should they.

[Spartas Husky]

Get the modding package, there is a program "USBXTAFGUI_v31"

Which allows you to extract, or "copy" anything onto your pc, or somewhere else that is in your USB.

I "moved" the save files from my xbox to my USB, extracted them onto my PC, which doesn't erase them from the USB, merely makes a copy onto the PC.

Have those saves in my PC, and my massive backup memory.

Placed the USB back in my xbox, "moved" them back to my hardrive. And Is pretty good., I update most of my xbox stuff daily, one thing every day, and so forth.

SO I got, my original in my hardrive, 1 in my USB, 1 in my PC, 1 in my backup memory rod.

So I got 4 copies of the same file, if something happens there are options.

FYI: yes something bad already, happended, and thank god for my multiple save files. Overlord corrupted already 3 entire carrers, 2 files that were pure and never modded, and 1 modded.... apparently I bought overlord to never be able to keep it but still. After the corruption... which didn't let me open those carrers, I marely erased it from my hardrive, and moved a working copy before Overlord from my USB to my xbox. And everything is good... well except my pocket lol

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 27 juillet 2010 - 07:14 .

[mass effect samurai]

blackrhubarb 2.0 wrote...

Kim Stolz wrote...

I realize you guys aren't in game design so I can understand that you think this is an easy fix that we could do in a day. It's not, this would require changing the entire system. We'd have months of changes going into indeterminate testing to make sure it worked we'd basically be retesting the entire game, all of the saves up until this point would still not be copyable and you'd have to make new saves anyway.So I'm sorry if you aren't happy with the current system. This is noted, but the odds of the system seeing any changes is very minimal and the odds of big changes are almost non existant.

No, we're not in game design, but we are the end users. We have a pretty good idea if something is or isn't useful to us. I understand it's not possible to change many of the mistakes in ME2. We're here mostly to make sure they aren't repeated.

Kim,

I am in software design and I understand what's involved.  I love the games Bioware makes and I'm one of your biggest fans.  However, you've put so much effort into allowing character continuation in Mass Effect and then you don't allow players to copy the files when their Xbox fails and they purchase a new one - we all know Microsoft categorically denounces any hardware failures but mine has failed 3 times already and I finally gave up on it.  If any game on this planet needs to allow you to copy the save game files, it's Mass Effect on X360!  It should be a breeze - the fact that it's not is a design mistake and could be classified as a BUG depending on who you're talking to.  Why would anyone consider this a bug?  Because it prevents some players of taking full advantage of the series.

I understand saving the state of the game is not an easy proposition but every other company out there has managed to do that and their save game files can be easily copied.  I, for one, am not willing to simply accept that Bioware has lesser developers or designers than the other companies out there when we ALL know that the opposite is true. You guys rock and you could easily FIX it if you sit down and just think about what's preventing the file from being copied - you don't need to reinvent the whole saving mechanism.

If you're not willing to fix it, then as the bare minimum please post clearcut step-by-step instructions in a sticky topic and inform EA tech support to direct players to that note to close the link.  I've spent a whole month with EA tech support trying to resolve this without success when there are solutions.  The way this has been handled by EA and Bioware shows a lack of responsibility from both sides - EA expects Bioware to fix it and Bioware expects EA to support the game and their reply is "we can't help you".  That leaves your fans stuck in the middle of the battlezone without support from anyone! (these are some very interesting smiley faces)

[Ross10]

Late to the thread, I know, but... seriously? There is NO OPTION for making a backup copy of the ME2 save files?



Given that one of the main selling points of the trilogy -- and one of the best features -- is the ability to import characters from ME1 to ME2 to ME3, which obviously requires that you keep your save files around for the years it takes for the next game to come out... and given that console hardware often has a shorter lifetime than that interval... I have to say that this seems like a really terrible decision.



I understand that you made a tradeoff between the ability to copy save files and speed of saving, and I understand there's nothing you can do about that now as far as ME2 is concerned. But I think you clearly made the wrong choice.