29 réponses à ce sujet

[Mnemnosyne]

Hew wrote...

[2] Lack of customization -- Some people will argue, and not without merit, that there is more visual customization for the PC than in BG. I just want to play the game. I don't give a crap about what my character's jaw shape is. I don't feel that is even a worthwhile option. Game developers take note, nobody cares about this option. Give me some nice art, and I'm happy. No matter how you distort the face given in the game, you still started from the same damn face. Totally annoying. I want preset, and different. Baldur's Gate had different.

I disagree with a lot of your points, and perhaps agree with one or two of them, but this one stands out so much it needed to be commented on.

You are wrong.  You're so wrong here it's not even funny.  Most people do care about character appearance to at least some degree, and there are many who care a lot.  One need only look at the many, many mods, for single-player games, to alter one's appearance to see how much people care.  The game's been out a month and a half now, and look at the number of appearance modification mods for both PC and NPC's out there.  Eyes, hair colors, different face presets, alternate versions of Leliana and Morrigan and even Sten, Oghren, and Loghain come to mind as ones which I've seen alternate versions of.

Appearance matters to people.  A lot.  And if you think you can't do different in Dragon Age, then you must be using some other character creator than the one that's in my version of the game, because it's possible to create characters that look very dissimilar to each other, without modding.  And with mods, well, the options are limited only by the skill and willingness of the modders.

If people didn't care, game companies wouldn't bother trying to give better character creation/customization tools.  These tools likely evolved as a direct result of people customizing their characters through modding.  You don't think it would be a lot easier for the developers to just create a few set faces and not allow for modification at all?  Instead they have to create a tool that allows for extensive modification, but in a simple way that the end-user is capable of making something that does not look terrible (although some developers *cough - bethesda - cough* fail miserably at the does not look terrible part).  That is not easy, it takes a lot of time and effort, and therefore cost.  They wouldn't do it if the customers didn't want it.

[Dsurian]

Can not wait to sink my teeth into this B.  'Agreed' = I agree with what the OP had to say on the subject. Now, may I speak as a die hard baldurs gate fan:

[1] Buggy launch -- The game worked fine for me in this instance.

[2] Lack of
customization -- I can't help to think that i truly do miss the default, class-dependant paper-doll of the BG series.  Customization has come a long way since the BG series though, and i admitadley like certain aspects of it...but it fails during some specifics.  For example, in Mass Effect...i couldnt bring myself to screw with the face of the poster boy, so i just played as him...no complaints.  In DA:O I had a little fun, and credit with genius whoever's idea it was to release the charachter creator, but it truly does annoy me when i find myself actually giving a crap about Nose Shape/Size/Depth/Height/Width, Bridge Depth/Width, and Tip Depth/Width when im just lookin at my PC's nose...

[3]
Character voices -- Agreed.  Either an honest attempt to make them realistic or the addition of an easy-to-use app. that imports voices from other RPG's would have been appreciated.  (Ex: tried to make an black mage and the only voiceset that sounds somewhat comparable to me is 'violent'...now the games got me feeling racist.)

[4] class
differentiation -- Agreed x10...major let-down when compared to BG.  Not to mention the over-saturation of dual-weilding through-out the game (which i realize has already been brought up many-a-time in other threads)

[5] Dialog / Writing -- Very rarely would there be a snag in the immersion of the voice acting.  Otherwise, i just can't wait till custom names can actually be used in voiced dialogue; I'm really sick of either being able to think up an origonal name only to have the dialogue tacticly avoid using the PC's name or (as it is in DA:O and Deus Ex) to be given the choice of naming your PC only to have part of the name chosen for you and to later realize that the name you chose is all but completley useless.

[6] Camera -- Agreed...two words concerning the camera in DA:O - 'Dungeon Seige'.

[7]
Openness / Linearity -- Agreed.  I liked the vast open-ness in BG1 even if i got overwhelmed by the sheer mass of extra stuff i felt i had to do.  BG2 then reduced this factor TOO much, but still managed to throw in a lot of optional content that you never had to do but i honestly enjoyed searching for and figuring out.  DA:O has a lot of stuff that i 'have' to do...in Redcliffe, for instance, it was literally like i had to go on several annoying errands before i was allowed in the castle...i couldnt consider it 'fun'. And theres not even any chance encounters; there are 'random' encounters but they're ALL pre-scripted.

[8]
Origin Stories -- Agreed...to overly hype something to the point that it ends up being a let-down is just not smart advertising...tends to ****** people off.

"But all of this really leads to the last, main gripe. All of the above pales in comparison."

[9]
The WoW-ization of Single-player games -- WoW sucks...its that simple.  The fact that its crack for lil 12 y.o.'s that spend mommys money doesn't mean that aspects of that game should ever be duplicated for other games...particularly games that reflect a much more mature fanbase.  I mean, I assume Bioware didn't go into the production of this game thinking that they wanted to market it to that generation...no, they came out with such claims as "This game is the spiritual successor to BG" and then adopted crap from current games that have no accurate relation to what they were working on...i just dont get it.

Summary: Last line speaks for itself...i just dont get what Bioware was thinking when making and releasing this game.  When i finished my first playthrough, i had enough will power to check out another origin story, occupying another hour of my time...and then I actually wanted to reinstall BG...seriously.  I hate that I just blew 70 bucks (buying up all the bonus stuff) to experience the full game, not missing a step...and then realize that all i want to do is go play a 10 year old series.  And don't get me wrong...i suppose i could say i enjoyed the game...it just failed my expectations...and i dont think they were set too high.  I mean, @Bioware, you had 10 years to think up something comparable...wasn't lookin for a bullseye but you coulda at least hit the dart board.

[kesayo2]

Well, I guess I agree with you that DAO is not really anything like BG. It's a lot more like NWN2, another great game.

That said, I'm rather glad DAO is not like BG. BG was good in it's day, but, well, BG2 is over 10 years old. If I tried to play it now, my graphics card would leave home and take the kids. Yes I know graphics aren't everything. But they aren't nothing either. There are still people who think that RPGs were better when it was text only. Yeah, ok, whatever. Go back to playing Zork on your Atari or whatever.

DAO has the origin stories which really make it worth replaying the game to see how differently things would turn out if you were someone else in the same story. This concept is a lot more amazing that most people seem to be recognizing. I love playing through it different ways and seeing how other people's lives turn out. It has an "It's a Wonderful Life" quality to it.

BG is just one story. Yes, you can play it as different classes. But I honestly couldn't be bothered to play the entire game through as a Fighter, then go through it again as a Mage, then go through it again as a  Fighter/Mage, etc. With DAO, playing as a mage really does give you a different experience.

And the interactions between the characters in your party are waaaay more developed and entertaining than in BG. Not to mention, you have so many options for romances (even same sex romances).
Don't get so caught up in criticizing little details that you forget about all the great things in this game. It will just flat out ruin the experience for you. Maybe you should pretend that this game has nothing to do with BG and compare it to all the other RPGs that are out there now.

Modifié par kesayo2, 22 décembre 2009 - 01:14 .

[Skellimancer]

kesayo2 wrote...


That said, I'm rather glad DAO is not like BG. BG was good in it's day, but, well, BG2 is over 10 years old. If I tried to play it now, my graphics card would leave home and take the kids. Yes I know graphics aren't everything. But they aren't nothing either. There are still people who think that RPGs were better when it was text only. Yeah, ok, whatever. Go back to playing Zork on your Atari or whatever.

[geoffsbg]

I think its pretty hard, and kind of unfair to compare games that came out ~10 years apart. The nostalgia factor is huge, like others above were saying. Plus games and our expectations of games evolve. RPGs have grown enormously in popularity since MMOs and the increase in the console market. BG and BG2 are in a weird transition period b/w older more niche CRPGs like the Ultima series, the Gold Box games, etc. They're like the pinnacle of that era of role-playing games, and they stood out for that reason, and because the rest of the market had already begun to move on to other things (like MMOs). DA:O is the next step in the current era of single player RPGs, which I agree has been largely shaped by MMO and console game fans; I mean this is in fact a console game, as well as a computer game.



I think the people who grew up on older games (including me) have been feeling a little spurned by some of the changes to RPGs, and since DA:O was marketed as 'the spiritual successor to BG', we were expecting something more resembling older games. But DA:O is nothing like those older games, it's much more a product of today. It just feels too console-ish, too MMO-like to be a spiritual successor to BG. No offense to younger gamers, but to us old-fogeys, it feels like it's geared for people with untreated ADHD. The 'cooldown' idea is a good example. Memorization required thought and forced you to really think before casting something. Now I find myself just slamming buttons and watching the pretty lights. And don't get me started with the arrows constantly pointing where to go, and huge exclamation marks over people's heads. Seriously? Even if I turn them off, I know they're still there. I can almost see them. Just hovering there. Insulting me.



I think it would be really easy to please some of us older gamers, considering the standards we grew up with in terms of graphics. If you grew up on Gold Box games, do you give a flying crap about how wonderful the game looks? Probably not as much as you value other things. Why does every new game have to LOOK new? Why are we constantly pushing the envelope in terms of graphics? Sure there's a place for that, and I'm not saying we should just stop advancing. But what would be so bad about making games with older engines as well? Game makers are kind of shooting themselves in the feet by constantly making things 'newer and better' looking, b/c they're just making it harder to make games. DA:O is a great example - how long did it take? 5 years? I'd be interested to hear how long BG took, and how they're budgets compared. I highly doubt BG cost anything close to DA:O to make. The same team that made DA:O could make a MASSIVELY AMAZING single player game using older graphics in that same time frame. I'd trade 5 hours worth of lip synching/voice acting for 50 hours worth of a larger world, more quests/things to do, more character development, better plot, etc.



I think there is enough of a market for people like me to justify some niche games. They wouldn't cost so much to make, so they wouldn't have to please everyone and rake in hoards of cash. Just look at that guy Jeff Vogel. Practically by himself, he's made a dozen or so single player RPGs, and they've done very well. It'd be nice if a whole team of people like him got together and came out with some games that are a few steps up from his games in terms of graphics, but not at all 'state of the art' either.