148 réponses à ce sujet

[Nozybidaj]

How do you measure a great game?  Do you look at sales numbers and how much profit the game made?  Do you score reviews and compile statistics on how the game has been rated?  Do you look to the fans and gather feedback on how they enjoyed the game?

I think all of these are good ways to measure a great game.  Mass Effect 2 in all these aspects has surpassed expectations.  Despite being released less than a week before the end of January Mass Effect 2 came in second for the month’s sales with 572,100 copies.  Reviews have been nothing short of fantastic, grabbing a Metascore of 96 and universal acclaim.  Fans are praising the game, touting its improved shooter combat, streamlined game mechanics, its great cinematic production values, and the huge cast of characters that have been introduced creating near fanatical fandoms like Talimancers in the process.

Being the second chapter of a trilogy can be a hard sell, especially following such a widely loved game as Mass Effect but Bioware seems to have pulled it off brilliantly.  When one looks at the effect Mass Effect 2 has had one could say that there isn’t a single thing that Mass Effect 2 did wrong.

When one starts to look at the effects ME2 has had it is easy to see all the good things it has spawned.  Talimance, a true joining of the shooter and rpg experience, a bar raising experience with digital and voice acting alike.  It is hard to see where the game could have had any negative impacts. 

Taking a look at Bioware’s very own social site we can see how much the fans love to discuss and endorse their favorite characters.  There are 8 Tali specific groups containing 2,623 members, Garrus has 5 groups containing 1,006 members.  Even bit characters seem to be loved and get their own attention.  Characters like Kal’Reegar have group memberships reaching over 225 members.  Even the comical Conrad Verner has his own group., Ambassador Udina has 2.

The forums section is host to its own kind of fan love.  No one who has ever gone to the Bioware forums could have missed threads like “Keep Tali Alive 2.0” which has grown to well over 1,000 pages and over 26,000 posts at the time I write this and continues to grow by the minute.  Bioware has created such lovable characters in Mass Effect 2 that the fans of the game are simply gushing with love and affection for their favorite characters.

What Mass Effect 2 did was spectacular by the estimation of groups such as Tali and Garrus lovers.  Bioware games excel at creating characters that people fall in love with, they empathize with them, and create an emotional attachment to them that is a very rare thing for video game developers and it is something that Bioware seems to take a lot of pride in.

That emotional attachment to the characters is what keeps people playing Bioware games.  They create groups about them, make threads about them, produce fanart and all sorts of fanfiction around these characters.  A real community develops not just for the game but for the individual characters that is a separate entity from just being a Mass Effect fan.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 17 février 2010 - 09:17 .

[Nozybidaj]

What happens though when something goes wrong?  Bioware creates these wonderful characters and people grow to love them.  People come to expect their characters to grow and develop and become important parts of the story, these characters become integral parts of the player experience and serve as the motivations and driving forces that usher the player and the player character through the story, often times more so than the player characters themselves.

What would Romeo be without Juliet?  Han without Leia? What would Clark be without Lois?  What would Ken be without Barbie?  Kermit without Ms. Piggy?  These relationships serve as the anchor for these characters, they provide context and motivation to their experiences in the world.  In the case of a game like Mass Effect the characters and love interests serve not only as an anchor but a pivotal part of the story itself as these relationships become as much a part of the character of Shepard as his gun and biotics are.

Unfortunately not all the fandoms of the Mass Effect universe are in the state of perpetual joy the likes of which Talimancers and Miranda lovers enjoy.  For many players this emotional anchor to Shepard, this part of him that is as important to his journey and his adventures as his gun and thermal clips is missing from the game.

Mass Effect 2 is a very bleak time to be a fan of the love interests that were introduced in Mass Effect 1.  Liara T’Soni fans, Ashley Williams fans, and Kaidan Alenko fans have been left very much alone in the dark with Mass Effect 2.

For fans of the Mass Effect 1 romances it was a long two years waiting to see what would happen next in their stories.  I still remember the ending of the very first time I finished Mass Effect and the way I felt.  Shepard had defeated Saren and saved the Council from the Reaper attack.  Shepard had bested them all, but a twist was coming I was not prepared for.  As the Reaper Sovereign had been defeated a massive chunk of debris was shot clear of his lifeless form and sped towards our hero and his team, a squad which included the lovable Dr. Liara T’Soni. 

I remember holding my breath and feeling a knot rise in my stomach.  “They can’t kill her”  I thought to myself “they won’t, they couldn’t”, I felt that my own emotions were the perfect mirror for those of my Shepard as his first thoughts turned not to himself but to the love that the had found along the way.  I couldn’t believe what was happening as I watched Shepard turn to his companions and tell them to run just before the debris crashed into the Council chamber.

The scene cut to a shot of the debris logged into the Council chamber.  “Nothing could have survived that” I thought.  I couldn’t believe they had actually done it.  Then as the first member of a search team started to pull back the rubble and I saw the slightest glimpse of the blue crest of a head, down went the knot in my stomach as I leapt from my chair pumping my fists in the air.  I was relieved, elated, Liara had survived.  It was only then that my thoughts turned to Shepard and the knot started to rise again.  Then the music changed tone and a glimpse of movement could be caught amongst the debris.   Shepard had lived and all was right with my world again. 

I hadn’t felt that sort of emotional attachment to two characters and their trials together since I had played Final Fantasy X.  Anyone that played or remembers that game knows what I am talking.  You would have to absolutely had a heart made out of granite not to tear up at the end of that game, it is heart wrenching.

ME’s ending was equally amazing to me and with a happier ending, I was literally worn out from the emotional rollercoaster that Bioware had just taken me for a ride on.  No sooner was the game over than I felt the need to know what happened next, what was in store for these characters, what would happen to the relationships I had created and how would the choices I had made affect them?  It was going to be a very long wait till Mass Effect 2.

Over the two years I played Mass Effect many times.  Sometimes I would get caught up in all of it again and play games back to back, making different Shepards. Sometimes I would spend a few months away from the game and come back to it.  Sometimes I was renegade (though I wasn’t very good at it and most of the time ended up neutral) other times not, some were soldiers, some were adepts, some male and female.  I even made myself do at least one game with a different choice of love interest, but without fail I always came back to Liara.  To me, she was the reason Shepard did the things he did.  She provided Shepard the strength and motivation that he needed to save the galaxy.  Without her, it is safe to say that the galaxy would have died time and again for my Shepard and his or her stories.

Then after nearly two long years the launch of Mass Effect 2 began to approach and I found myself drawn to the Bioware forums to scrounge up any information I could on the game.  To my utter shock and surprise I found out that these central characters, these anchors of Shepard’s story and my emotional engagement to the game were no longer squad mates.  Bioware assured us they still played a part in ME2 and that they were still central to the Mass Effect story line. 

“Haven’t we earned your trust by now?” Bioware asked us, and I agreed, they had.  Bioware has made many great games over the years and while disappointed I still looked forward to seeing exactly what was in store for these characters I loved.

As the wait for Mass Effect 2 came ever closer to being over, my initial hesitation about the removal of the ME1 LI’s began to wane more and more and I anticipated the release as much as anyone.

Now after having played the game it is clear to see the kind of impact ME2 has had on the community.  We see huge Tali threads full of optimism and good cheer.  We see new fandoms springing up around the new characters large and small.  These group are full of active and lively discussion, fun to be had for all as they discuss their favorite moments of the game and share in the good will that the game has generated for them. There were lots of great moments and unforgettable experiences for these fans to celebrate.  These fandoms continue to grow and expand by the day as fans new and old come together to talk about and share their experiences with these wonderful characters.

That kind of momentum will carry nicely into ME3.  People want to know “whats Tali’s face look like?”  “who wants to see more of Miranda’s breasts”  “will they cure Thane or won’t they”.  There is so much positive energy generated by these fandoms that it is absolutely contagious.

I admit, I’m more than just a little jealous.  The Liara fandom (and much the same with the Ashley and Kaidan fans) has no momentum, no good moments to share or discuss with each other.  These groups are full of disappoint, filled with vitrol for the developers and they way these characters were handled and ignored.  The same topics get rehashed over and over again by the same few individuals because there is nothing new to discuss.  There is no growing excitement and no growing user base.  At best these groups are completely stagnant while more realistically they are shrinking by the day.

Fans have abandoned these characters for the newer and more positive representations of the ME2 characters.  Over the course of days and weeks you can see the participation of the Liara/Ash/Kaidan fans dwindling, you can see once regular contributors disappearing as positive topics and discussion has evaporated from these fandoms.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 17 février 2010 - 08:59 .

[Nozybidaj]

Here are some common comments in regards to Liara and the other LI’s that show the effect that Mass Effect 2 has had on these user bases.  These are actual comments from a Liara “support” thread.

[quote]Doc Bacon wrote…
NO! I hate the new Liara, well not hate, but I loved Liara for her innocence in such dark times in the first game. Now she wants me to help murder others in an obsessive revenge story. She is not the Asari I fell in love with![/quote]

[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote…
Liara's character was ruined in ME2. Her new ego is very unlike her old one. That mission was a bit "crappy" too and felt like an introduction to ME2 for kids.

I cannot understand that there wasn't an option to break up with her and to refuse the mission. Of course you will be able to simply not do it, but that's not the same. You get that mission anyway. In one part of it I was able to be angry and in the last part of the dialog everything is forgotten? What an awful story telling.

Selling or giving my body to Cerberus is a crime for any paragon.

I have this conspiracy theory... BioWare actually wants to dump characters like Liara, so they don't give them their full attention. [/quote]

[quote]Zemore wrote…
question about Liara if she does become a squaddie again ... is she still gonna be kakacoocooberries? cuz she went all Benezia talking to that guy as you go in the door my thoughts were ARRGH KILL IT KILL IT!![/quote]

[quote]Archereon wrote…
I despise Liara. Make her the main villain please.[/quote]

[quote]crimzontearz wrote…
she can stay on ilium and shag her new drell frogprince lover.....I'll stiick with Samara for my mandatory asari squadmate[/quote]

[quote]Myrkale wrote…
I was rather disappointed by Liara in ME2, Ash/Kaidan show some interest in Shepard romantically. Liara, not so much. Besides a kiss when you first see her again, all she ever talks about is the Shadow Broker. She's to obsessed with the Shadow Broker to deal with anything else. I was hoping there would be a conversation option "Liara stop being an idiot!, your obsession is going to get you killed!"(which it nearly does, depending on how you finish her quests). Either way I have a feeling that she is going to get herself killed in a DLC, expansion, or ME3.[/quote]

[quote]Mox Ruuga wrote…
Yeah. We were asked to trust Bioware to handle these issues on the strength of their previous record by the devs themselves. "I think you guys would trust us more by now..." and similar comments.

A lot of the more optimistic fans picked right up on these, and attacked anyone who had doubts.

And guess what happened when ME2 was released? I didn't trust the devs but persisted in voicing my doubts, and it looks to me I was right to do so. [/quote]

[quote]JrayM16 wrote…
I dont know. Liara was kind of crazy in ME2. I stopped doing ehr quest chain cause it seemed she'd completely lost it and became obsessed w/ finding the Shadow Broker. She also became renegade to a disgusting degree, willing to kill 5 people cause she knew one of them ahd to be her target. In ME3, I want the ability to put her down. [/quote]

[quote]Driveninhifi wrote…
And that's really the problem with her portrayal in game. It just doesn't make sense for her to become that cold. Revenge alone doesn't fit her character at all. She's the least cruel and aggressive character in ME1. Even the comics get this wrong. You read any review/preview of the comic and that's the first thing they mention. "Liara doesn't act like Liara."
It's nearly unbelievable she'd become that way by choice - even seeing her mom brainwashed and killed doesn't do it. She doesn't just want to kill Saren to avenge her mother, she also wants to do it to save the galaxy.
There needs to be more development of her, she needs more motivation. Maybe an indication that she really doesn't know what else to do other than quote Benezia. She's not good at intimidating people, but she knows what works. Something to make it obvious that this is an act she's had to put on for her own survival. I really she has to be forced into it; it doesn't make sense for her to dive headlong into revenge. [/quote]

[quote]lord Berwick wrote…
[quote]flem1 wrote...

This thread started off so nice, and now it's all full of bitterness and anger.

Sort of like...  [/quote]

I don't think it's bitterness or anger flem.  It's just plain disappointment. [/quote]

Well, you get the idea.  It may have been unintentional but Mass Effect 2 has delivered a crushing blow to these fandoms and I wonder if they will survive another two year wait till Mass Effect 3 intact.

At the moment these fanbases have a very negative atmosphere that becomes less and less active by the day.  I won’t deny it, it irritates me to see these other fandom’s getting to enjoy all the good things that ME2 has brought them.  We see the rising popularity of the other characters and all the good things that have come their way and things they have to look forward to.  Then we look toward these other fanbases and see less activity by the day, folks that used to be cornerstones of it dropping by “once in a while”, these fanbases are not experiencing any growth since there is nothing to grow off of in ME2.

Now we have another two years before us.  Will these older fanbases have the support and sustainability at this point to last that long?  Over time as the new groups that have reasons to remain positive consume more and more of these older fanbases their numbers will dwindle.  The negative tones and undercurrents of these older fanbases will continue to become more bitter until there is nothing being added to them except rehashing the same old complaints over and over again.  By the time we start to hear info about ME3 will there be anyone left who still cares if these characters even return at all?

The community will be focused on seeing Tali’s face and hearing more from Miranda, wanting to make sure Garrus got his face fixed up, wanting to know more about why Legion wears your armor.  The more time that passes these fanbases will grow and be focused even more on these new characters and the new themes that have been developed in ME2 and will be craving for more and more developer attention.  Bioware would be silly not to give it to them at that point as that is where the majority of the fanbase will reside.

I don’t see the Liara/Ash/Kaidan fandom surviving another 2 years as real supportable fanbases.  After having received so little in the way of progression and positive reinforcement in ME2 it is hard to see a way they will have enough to go on.  There is nothing positive for these fandoms to anchor themselves on, to try and grow and mature with.  BW can give us shallow reassurance that these characters have roles in ME3 but in another two years will anyone really care?  Were are not even a month out from ME2 and the Liara/Ash/Kaidan groups are already running out of steam to continue their discussions and support any level of fan interest.

It is a major disappointment for me personally to see a character that I had grown so attached to treated so terribly by her own creators.  It is shocking and disheartening to see that the things I had grown to love and care about in the Mass Effect universe could mean so little to the folks that developed them that they are completely excluded from the sequel, expecting that a 4 year gap in story and progression would be an acceptable course of action.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 17 février 2010 - 08:45 .

[Nozybidaj]

I don’t think I’ll be looking forward to ME3.  The disappointments that have overshadowed all attempts to enjoy ME2 have left me with a very hollow feeling toward the series as a whole.  Over time as these fandoms dwindle all we will have to look back on fondly is that night before Ilos and a hollow victory of love over evil at the Citadel.

In the meantime the series will continue on.  The new characters popularity will continue to grow and support the game.  As I mentioned at the start, the series may still meet all the measures of a great game, but for some it will never regain that spark of emotion and engagement that was lost when these characters were lost.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 17 février 2010 - 08:47 .

[Nozybidaj]

Okay, that's it.  Have at it. 

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 17 février 2010 - 08:47 .

[Nozybidaj]

Reserved one space too many, but like I said, have at it. Just wanted to get some of that off my chest. =)

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

interesting read, should be bumped.

[fortunesque]

I can't argue with anything you said, except that the Kaidan thread is still in full swing and positivity somehow abounds there. Maybe it's because we're used to all of the hate that gets directed at our favorite character.



The cameos were an utter disappointment to me, especially the ones of Ash/Kaidan. They had almost the exact same lines. Maybe I would have been fine with them if they were made to feel special or personal, but they weren't. And all of Shepard's responses were utterly lame. "Hey. It's been a while, how have you been?". Really?



Liara's character was a complete 180. I understand that people change, but that was over the top.



But the part that gets to me the most is that we couldn't reply to the email that Ash/Kaidan sent. Conrad Verner had more dialogue and thought put into him than the Virmire survivor. So yeah, at the moment, I feel very unwanted by Bioware.

[Ghostano]

I can understand how you feel just wish they had found a better way to handle the love intrests. With so many of the newer chacters that can die I just can not see how they can be brought back in the third one. I am not saying not to bring them back just think about chacters you could lose on virmire. Have to wonder if Tali and Garrus are not squadmates in the third one for that reason would the same people that wanted to see them in the second one regret getting there wish.



I just feel like they want to forget the first game and move forward with the new target audiance. I am fine with that I just would like to see just once they be honest about it. I am sorry I fear I may have said something to take away from your post.



Alot of what you said I feel but you said it alot better then I could. After the first game I could not wait till the second one game out. Now even after finshing the game twice I have more of a Meh feeling.



I thank you for your post given you were able to say what I felt better then I could. As you can see I tend to type alot and say nothing

[Beastfoot]

Agreed, they should at least kiss it (ME1) - it's the polite thing to do when you're....

[syllogi]

Read the whole thing...and now I'm very sad.   

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I think that fans of the Mass Effect 1 love interests shouldn't give up hope on ME3 just yet.  We did get the "three-act love story" message before ME2 came out, and we do have the fact that Liara and Kaidan/Ashley are guaranteed to be alive in the next game, while none of the ME2 squadmates are.

Liara, especially, should have a large role in the next game.  It would be insane to create Mass Effect: Redemption, give her the whole sub-plot of taking on the Shadow Broker, and then not follow up on it effectively and in a satisfying way in ME3.

I also believe that while ME2 seemed to be written specifically to drive a wedge between Shepard and his chosen LI, and many people did initially turn away from the ME1 characters because of that, some of them will get over their first inclinations to be angry, and decide to give them another chance in ME3. 

If the characters are well written and compelling in the third game, and Bioware does their job, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised.  At least I will.

[SmokePants]

Uh, the same thing is going to happen to the ME2 love interests/squad. Bioware doesn't do it to be mean any more than when a rancher slaughters his cattle. It simply has to be done.

If there's a lesson in all this, it's that most people will be able to move on when the time comes.

Modifié par SmokePants, 17 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[Daeion]

Nozybidaj wrote...
Being the second chapter of a trilogy can be a hard sell, especially following such a widely loved game as Mass Effect but Bioware seems to have pulled it off brilliantly.  When one looks at the effect Mass Effect 2 has had one could say that there isn’t a single thing that Mass Effect 2 did wrong.

When one starts to look at the effects ME2 has had it is easy to see
all the good things it has spawned.  Talimance, a true joining of the
shooter and rpg experience, a bar raising experience with digital and
voice acting alike.  It is hard to see where the game could have had
any negative impacts.

Oh I could come up with a lot of things that BioWare did wrong and how they didn't pull this off brilliantly and that they totaly failed at deliverying a game that balance RPG and Shooter but w/e, it's just my opinion so it doesn't matter.

Modifié par Daeion, 17 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[Urazz]

I think they handled the ME1 love interests okay if you didn't romance any of them but it was disappointing otherwise if you did romance them.



Like maybe if you ran into Ashley/Kaiden again later on the Citadel after Horizon or Liara sent you a couple of emails or something after Ilium or something.

[Nozybidaj]

TeenZombie wrote...

Read the whole thing...and now I'm very sad.   

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I think that fans of the Mass Effect 1 love interests shouldn't give up hope on ME3 just yet.  We did get the "three-act love story" message before ME2 came out, and we do have the fact that Liara and Kaidan/Ashley are guaranteed to be alive in the next game, while none of the ME2 squadmates are.

Liara, especially, should have a large role in the next game.  It would be insane to create Mass Effect: Redemption, give her the whole sub-plot of taking on the Shadow Broker, and then not follow up on it effectively and in a satisfying way in ME3.

I also believe that while ME2 seemed to be written specifically to drive a wedge between Shepard and his chosen LI, and many people did initially turn away from the ME1 characters because of that, some of them will get over their first inclinations to be angry, and decide to give them another chance in ME3. 

If the characters are well written and compelling in the third game, and Bioware does their job, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised.  At least I will.

I'm certain there are some folks willing to hold out ANOTHER two years now with no assurance at all that the characters will be handled any differently.  I don't think a majority of fans will.  By the time ME3 is ready to come out the Liara/Ash/Kaidan fandoms will be an insignificant part of the fanbase as a whole.  Bioware would be shooting themselves in the foot to cater to them at all.

[meznaric]

I think a lot will be explained in the comics as well as the rumoured Liara DLC... Let's not overreact too quickly.



Having said that, I cannot resist some speculation: It could just be that Liara fell in love with that Drell (forgot the name) thinking that Shepard would never forgive her when she turns him over to Cerberus. Then, the guy is killed and she is emotionally messed up seeing revenge on the Shadow Broker as the only option. I think it's an interesting character development, but as many others, can't help but feel a bit disappointed that they had her get so messed up.

[Lothial]

A compelling drama means bummers. I'd like to say though that even the complaints rendered here are a testament to the greatness of this game. First of all it's clear the OP's experience in Mass Effect was completely different then mine. If you are only playing this game through one way everytime you are missing out I had two characters in ME a male Paragon, and a female Renegade. The male paragon's experience was close to what the OP describes. The female renegade has no idea what this guy is talking about.



First of all in Mass Effect she didn't even have a love interest. She didn't have time for it. There were things that needed to die because they had crossed her. There was no triumph of love over evil on the citadel there was the triumph of Shepard, and the promise that she wasn't done yet until every big mechanical cuttlefish that wants to start trouble in her galaxy is going to die, and anyone else that wants to start trouble on the way can go along for the ride.



She was HAPPY to see Liara has grown up. Good for her. She learned her lesson well it doesn't matter if it's the shadow broker. You let anyone hurt you un avenged, and everyone will want to take their shot. Crushing the enemy fast, and with devastating force is the most permanent way to resolve conflicts.



She didn't care if Kaiden was being butt hurt she always like Garrus better anyways. So she hooked up with him in this one, but if he wants to stay behind in ME3 fine. If he wants to get in her way in ME3 she'll kill him herself.



The point is if you are only seeing this series from same perspective everytime you play I think you are missing out on a large chunk of the experience. Mix it up people miss Ashley or Liara in one game fell that loss. Have that experience. Then do it again, and this time just say to hell with them have the fling. Do that experience.

[Nozybidaj]

meznaric wrote...

I think a lot will be explained in the comics as well as the rumoured Liara DLC... Let's not overreact too quickly.

 

It has less to do with any specific thing that happened to them.  It is their removal from the story and the effects it will have on the fanbase over the next two years while they develop ME3.  As these fanbases shrink and the others grow BW would have to be blind to not cater the game to the growing and active portions of the fanbase.  I suspect that in two years there will be very few people still demanding Liara/Ash/Kaidan be in the game, especially compared to the number of folks that will be clamoring for more the of the ME2 cast.

There is only so much they can add to the game, not everyone is going to be happy.  Which fanbase would you support?

[Von Salza]

@Nozybidaj



I see your point, I won't go into many details, but ME2 for me, honestly, it's the best half game I ever played (I'm 42 btw), but after we get all the characters, do their loyalty missions, and think, "Now, lets start playing this thing!!! Game Over!!! ???????", guess we have to wait for ME3.



But honestly its the Matrix syndrome, great 1st, wtf 2nd, Alright 3rd...

I was more "disappointed" with DA...



Bioware never let fans down, well, we may agree on this, disagree on that,but they always deliver, and from very good to great, and that is the truth. DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS!!!, I'LL DENY IT...



I thought the same when The Wire ended, but then Generation Kill....

[Weskerr]

OP - First I have to compliment you. This is one of the few threads I've read that I really enjoyed reading. You make valid points and I can feel the intensity of your feelings reverberating from every word.

If you can take solace in anything, it's the strong implication in ME2 that the Shadow Broker character - and Liara - will have significant roles to play in the next game. Even before completing my first ME2 playthrough, I was expecting Liara to fill the last recruitment spot because she is such an integral character in both ME1 and ME2 stories. Her character is responsible for Shepard's current state of being. Without her, there would be no story. The Shadow Broker would have retrieved Shepard's body and turned it over to the Collectors if she hadn't intervened. I don't think this is an example of her creators (the writers) treating her badly and with disrespect - just the opposite. They consciously decided to make Liara T'soni play a key role in the story of Shepard, the Reapers, the Shadow Broker, and Cerberus. Her importance as a character can be traced all the way back to when she first palpates Shepards head to try to make sense of the visions he received from the Prothean beacons. Without her, Shepard would not have determined that Illos was crucial to Saren's plan of attacking the citadel. And keep in mind, this is all whether you romance her or not. She's a significant character either way.

You can quote me on this. I honestly think that she will be a squadmate in ME3.

[Talogrungi]

ME2 is an awesome game, but the import feature failed to meet expectations for me.

Many of the gripes I have with the game relates back to that.

• I romanced Liara in ME1. Our reunion in ME2 was a business meeting.
• I saved the council in ME1. It had absolutely no effect in ME2.
• I saved the Rachni in ME1. I got a "oh hai!" dialogue in ME2.

If I hadn't played ME1, then none of this would matter to me and I honestly think that I would have enjoyed the game a whole lot more.

[meznaric]

Nozybidaj wrote...

meznaric wrote...

I think a lot will be explained in the comics as well as the rumoured Liara DLC... Let's not overreact too quickly.

 

It has less to do with any specific thing that happened to them.  It is their removal from the story and the effects it will have on the fanbase over the next two years while they develop ME3.  As these fanbases shrink and the others grow BW would have to be blind to not cater the game to the growing and active portions of the fanbase.  I suspect that in two years there will be very few people still demanding Liara/Ash/Kaidan be in the game, especially compared to the number of folks that will be clamoring for more the of the ME2 cast.

There is only so much they can add to the game, not everyone is going to be happy.  Which fanbase would you support?

Personally, I would love to see ME1 characters come back fully in ME3. Out of the ME1 characters, Liara was my favourite and if there was more to the story in ME2 I would probably not have picked another LI for my Shepard . I think Bioware will not repeat the same mistake again anyway. The fan fallout will probably be a lesson to learn.

[meznaric]

Talogrungi wrote...

ME2 is an awesome game, but the import feature failed to meet expectations for me.

Many of the gripes I have with the game relates back to that.

• I romanced Liara in ME1. Our reunion in ME2 was a business meeting.
• I saved the council in ME1. It had absolutely no effect in ME2.
• I saved the Rachni in ME1. I got a "oh hai!" dialogue in ME2.

If I hadn't played ME1, then none of this would matter to me and I honestly think that I would have enjoyed the game a whole lot more.

I agree with this post. I think Bioware focused way too much on making the game independent. If it's a trilogy, it's a trilogy. Hence, fan fallout ensues.

[Sialater]

I don't think they should introduce any new squadmembers and just flesh out the ME1s and ME2s.

[Bergybud]

Now I realy miss Ash!