148 réponses à ce sujet

[Daeion]

TeenZombie wrote...

Read the whole thing...and now I'm very sad.   

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I think that fans of the Mass Effect 1 love interests shouldn't give up hope on ME3 just yet.  We did get the "three-act love story" message before ME2 came out, and we do have the fact that Liara and Kaidan/Ashley are guaranteed to be alive in the next game, while none of the ME2 squadmates are.

Liara, especially, should have a large role in the next game.  It would be insane to create Mass Effect: Redemption, give her the whole sub-plot of taking on the Shadow Broker, and then not follow up on it effectively and in a satisfying way in ME3.

I also believe that while ME2 seemed to be written specifically to drive a wedge between Shepard and his chosen LI, and many people did initially turn away from the ME1 characters because of that, some of them will get over their first inclinations to be angry, and decide to give them another chance in ME3. 

If the characters are well written and compelling in the third game, and Bioware does their job, I think we'll be pleasantly surprised.  At least I will.

Personally I feel the knowledge that our LI is garunteed to be alive in ME3 is just a shallow hope.  Even if the ME2 squad mates can all die, I can still see BW spending a larger amount of time on the likes of Garrus, Morrdin, Tali, and Legion then they will on our ME LI's.  I'm on my 4th playthrough and i haven't cheated yet, but evey time I only get to look at a picture, knowing that those who did cheat or didn't have a LI in ME are getting a some quality time with their new love, it makes it harder and harder to stay faithful.

As for the game being written to drive a wedge between shep and the LI's, even if that's true and I also feel it is, to me that wedge should be driven home by the LI being so upset they won't listen to reason, but Shep needs to be able to actually argue for their love.  I think that was the thing that upset me the most when it came to the LI's, the fact that no matter what I couldn't respond to them with a I still love you, or I'll always love you.

[Canez fan 1988]

Talogrungi wrote...

ME2 is an awesome game, but the import feature failed to meet expectations for me.

Many of the gripes I have with the game relates back to that.

• I romanced Liara in ME1. Our reunion in ME2 was a business meeting.
• I saved the council in ME1. It had absolutely no effect in ME2.
• I saved the Rachni in ME1. I got a "oh hai!" dialogue in ME2.

If I hadn't played ME1, then none of this would matter to me and I honestly think that I would have enjoyed the game a whole lot more.

All of those decisions play a big role on the ME universe and Shepard's storyline.

[Canez fan 1988]

Double post

Modifié par Canez fan 1988, 17 février 2010 - 09:54 .

[Medet]

I'm glad I never payed attention to the romances, and found the Kaiden/Ash entity to be the least interesting character in ME1.



I can see how people would be frustrated with the KaiAsh cameo, but I thought the run ins with Liara and Wrex were reasonably well handled.

[Canez fan 1988]

Sialater wrote...

I don't think they should introduce any new squadmembers and just flesh out the ME1s and ME2s.

That's what I'm hoping for. Your ME3 squad should consist of whatever surviving characters you have from the first two games.

[Nozybidaj]

Canez fan 1988 wrote...
All of those decisions play a big role on the ME universe and Shepard's storyline.

Let's not loose focus too soon here folks.  I'm willing to let the thread take on a life of its own, but I want to make something clear.

This isn't about any one decision or in game portrayal.  This is about the clear design to remove the ME1 LI's from ME2 in the most negative way possible and the effects that it is going to have on the fanbase.  How having nothiing for these fandoms to grow on in ME2 compared to the other groups and how this is all going to affect the development of ME3.

It will be very hard at this point to bring these characters back not only in a believable way but also in a way that isn't going to alienate the growing and thriving fanbases that ME2 has created.  In two years time the respective ME1 LI fanbases are going to be dwarfed by the thriving ME2 fanbases.



It was also about my pesonal disappointment in BW.  It is pretty bad form to throw away main characters 1/3 of the way into your trilogy.  That has really detracted from my appreciation of BW as story tellers, but that is my own gripe.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 17 février 2010 - 09:57 .

[silentstephi]

On the one hand, I can see your disappointment and even sympathize with you on it. But... I liked what they did to Liara.



You've been dead for 2 yrs, and she GAVE you to Cerberus, even after all you've been through. She's... got some things to work out. As for Ash/Kaiden, I can see where they're coming from. Even my renegade is still pissed at working with Cerberus, but she's also ticked that the Alliance would drop her like it did. So there's a lot of raw feelings all around. In my second play, I romanced Kaiden to see how his response would differ... I have to say, it hurt, sure. And the make up email was very... I dunno. I guess all around, dying and coming back could REALLY screw up with someone who was in love with you, especially if they've finally been convinced to move on.



I don't think the ME1 LI's got the shaft, but they're def on the way to a very interesting story. As for the ME2 LIs... there are some people who got shafted in ME1 because their LI wasn't available (yes, I'm in the I wanted Garrus since ME1.) But so far, just playing the game, they seem like making the ME2 interests is just a fling, not something deeper, like you you get out of the ME1 interests. They certainly give you a lot of outs/ways to make it look like it's just a f'l before you die : /

[Canez fan 1988]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Canez fan 1988 wrote...
All of those decisions play a big role on the ME universe and Shepard's storyline.

Let's not loose focus too soon here folks.  I'm willing to let the thread take on a life of its own, but I want to make something clear.

This isn't about any one decision or in game portrayal.  This is about the clear design to remove the ME1 LI's from ME2 in the most negative way possible and the effects that it is going to have on the fanbase.  How having nothiing for these fandoms to grow on in ME2 compared to the other groups and how this is all going to affect the development of ME3.

It will be very hard at this point to bring these characters back not only in a believable way but also in a way that isn't going to alienate the growing and thriving fanbases that ME2 has created.  In two years time the respective ME1 LI fanbases are going to be dwarfed by the thriving ME2 fanbases.



It was also about my pesonal disappointment in BW.  It is pretty bad form to throw away main characters 1/3 of the way into your trilogy.  That has really detracted from my appreciation of BW as story tellers, but that is my own gripe.

Honestly, How could you not see that coming? Nearly everyone knew, at least I thought, that the ME1 characters would play a minor role in the story of ME2.

[fortunesque]

Canez fan 1988 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Canez fan 1988 wrote...
All of those decisions play a big role on the ME universe and Shepard's storyline.

Let's not loose focus too soon here folks.  I'm willing to let the thread take on a life of its own, but I want to make something clear.

This isn't about any one decision or in game portrayal.  This is about the clear design to remove the ME1 LI's from ME2 in the most negative way possible and the effects that it is going to have on the fanbase.  How having nothiing for these fandoms to grow on in ME2 compared to the other groups and how this is all going to affect the development of ME3.

It will be very hard at this point to bring these characters back not only in a believable way but also in a way that isn't going to alienate the growing and thriving fanbases that ME2 has created.  In two years time the respective ME1 LI fanbases are going to be dwarfed by the thriving ME2 fanbases.



It was also about my pesonal disappointment in BW.  It is pretty bad form to throw away main characters 1/3 of the way into your trilogy.  That has really detracted from my appreciation of BW as story tellers, but that is my own gripe.

Honestly, How could you not see that coming? Nearly everyone knew, at least I thought, that the ME1 characters would play a minor role in the story of ME2.

How could you see it coming? Until they announced that the ME1 LIs were not going to be squadmates, everyone assumed that they'd be back, just like Tali.

[Skilled Seeker]

Liara changed. People tend to do that after years pass by and they lose close friends. Deal with it. Basically what all the romance fanboys/girls want is for the characters to not evolve or have any bad sides but to be perfect virtuous beings.

[JPfanner]

silentstephi wrote...

I don't think the ME1 LI's got the shaft, but they're def on the way to a very interesting story. As for the ME2 LIs... there are some people who got shafted in ME1 because their LI wasn't available (yes, I'm in the I wanted Garrus since ME1.) But so far, just playing the game, they seem like making the ME2 interests is just a fling, not something deeper, like you you get out of the ME1 interests. They certainly give you a lot of outs/ways to make it look like it's just a f'l before you die : /

Well I disagree.  If ME1 LI's didn't get the shaft it would only be because Bioware didn't include a shaft for them to get.  Just like they didn't include any interaction with them.  As it is now, they're too one dimensional and shallow to even have the depth to take a shaft.  You can't even talk to them about how you feel.  So how you don't think they got shafted is pretty weird, especially when you're able to engage in mental gymnastics to retroactively consider yourself to have been shafted in ME1.  There is plenty of shaft to go around for everyone in my opinion.

[Canez fan 1988]

fortunesque wrote...

Canez fan 1988 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Canez fan 1988 wrote...
All of those decisions play a big role on the ME universe and Shepard's storyline.

Let's not loose focus too soon here folks.  I'm willing to let the thread take on a life of its own, but I want to make something clear.

This isn't about any one decision or in game portrayal.  This is about the clear design to remove the ME1 LI's from ME2 in the most negative way possible and the effects that it is going to have on the fanbase.  How having nothiing for these fandoms to grow on in ME2 compared to the other groups and how this is all going to affect the development of ME3.

It will be very hard at this point to bring these characters back not only in a believable way but also in a way that isn't going to alienate the growing and thriving fanbases that ME2 has created.  In two years time the respective ME1 LI fanbases are going to be dwarfed by the thriving ME2 fanbases.



It was also about my pesonal disappointment in BW.  It is pretty bad form to throw away main characters 1/3 of the way into your trilogy.  That has really detracted from my appreciation of BW as story tellers, but that is my own gripe.

Honestly, How could you not see that coming? Nearly everyone knew, at least I thought, that the ME1 characters would play a minor role in the story of ME2.

How could you see it coming? Until they announced that the ME1 LIs were not going to be squadmates, everyone assumed that they'd be back, just like Tali.

When did they announce that? Surely not a week before the game was released. Like I said people had an idea, they just didn't want to accept the fact that Bioware decided to turn your ME1 LI into a minor character while introducing new LI's for ME2.

Most people even knew Garrus and Tali were coming back as squadmates, well before the game was released.

[KainrycKarr]

I have highlighted the parts of my post that I believe will most interest, and why I personally, believe that the Liara and Ashley/Kaidan fans should retain hope.

The most popular characters will return as squadmates, but will likely not hold roles that cannot be interchangeable.

This is what I believe casey hudson meant by keeping the ME LI's alive through ME2, guaranteed.

Those specific characters, I think, Bioware want to have CHARACTER SPECIFIC ROLES.

As
in, they MUST bein the plot, without doubt. This makes sense for
kaidan/ashley, as they are BOTH marines of relatively high ranking, and as such I believe their personal history with Shepard would make a generic stand-in impossible, and
ESPECIALLY makes sense for Liara as she is the only guaranteed survivor, and has her own separately written story-arch.

Favorites
like Tali, Garrus, Thane, etc, i believe will be made available as
squadmates and continued LI's, but will not have dialogue or cutscenes
that are crucial to the main plot. They will most likely be OPTIONAL
squaddies, based on if they lived or died.

Tl;Dr

Liara
and Kaidan/Ashley are reserved for plot specific roles that do not
allow for generic character if they are dead, thus why they were
"immunized" for ME2.

ME2 characters and LI's, while present and
with their own stories, etc, will not be crucial to the plot, and will
likely be interchangeable. Which characters are brought back will be
determined by fan response and who lived in people's save games,
respectively.

People always say Casey Hudson lies with these statements but he doesn't....you're just interpreting it differently.

[KainrycKarr]

The bottom line is to not give up hope. Stand up for your characters. That's how us Tali and Garrus fans got what we wanted.

[SidNitzerglobin]

I honestly think you're jumping to conclusions. I don't see any reason for it not being possible for the ME1 LIs to return and Shep having a chance to patch things up with them. This actually seems pretty likely to me.



On a side note, BioWare somehow managed to make Liara even more uninteresting to me in ME2 by trying to make her hardened and jaded. The decision on the direction the character was going to take in and of itself had potential, but the delivery in her scenes fell massively flat to me. I'm actually into the idea of her "going Benezia" and making her an adversary in ME3 at this point.

[meznaric]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Canez fan 1988 wrote...
All of those decisions play a big role on the ME universe and Shepard's storyline.

Let's not loose focus too soon here folks.  I'm willing to let the thread take on a life of its own, but I want to make something clear.

This isn't about any one decision or in game portrayal.  This is about the clear design to remove the ME1 LI's from ME2 in the most negative way possible and the effects that it is going to have on the fanbase.  How having nothiing for these fandoms to grow on in ME2 compared to the other groups and how this is all going to affect the development of ME3.

It will be very hard at this point to bring these characters back not only in a believable way but also in a way that isn't going to alienate the growing and thriving fanbases that ME2 has created.  In two years time the respective ME1 LI fanbases are going to be dwarfed by the thriving ME2 fanbases.



It was also about my pesonal disappointment in BW.  It is pretty bad form to throw away main characters 1/3 of the way into your trilogy.  That has really detracted from my appreciation of BW as story tellers, but that is my own gripe.

Actually I think the reaction of these fandoms shows that Bioware has succeeded in evoking all sorts of emotional responses from the fandoms. If you think about it, if the characters were just lame then we would not be saying here things like "When I get to that Drell his balls will be as good as a Krogan's". People are having a real emotional response to these characters and I think this is quite an achievement. We have to give some credit to Bioware for that at least.

[fortunesque]

Canez fan 1988 wrote...




When did they announce that? Surely not a week before the game was released. Like I said people had an idea, they just didn't want to accept the fact that Bioware decided to turn your ME1 LI into a minor character while introducing new LI's for ME2.

Most people even knew Garrus and Tali were coming back as squadmates, well before the game was released.

It was in the January issue of OXM; Casey Hudson was interviewed and directly answered the question. The forums exploded. Tali was confirmed very early on, then Garrus wasn't confirmed until about a month or so before release.

[syllogi]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Liara changed. People tend to do that after years pass by and they lose close friends. Deal with it. Basically what all the romance fanboys/girls want is for the characters to not evolve or have any bad sides but to be perfect virtuous beings.

Ehh...maybe there are some fans who are upset with the characterization of the ME1 LIs because they have changed, but if they're still part of the Liara and Kaidan/Ash fanbase at this point, they probably like the "new" Liara, and/or were willing to forgive and forget the meeting on Horizon. 

I personally was upset at first, but now feel like Ashley and Kaidan had a right to feel hurt and confused when first seeing Shepard again.  I wish the meeting was handled better, but I wouldn't have wanted them to just come on back to my squad without any comment or opinion about joining Cerberus.  And Liara is more intriguing to me now than she was in ME1.  I can't wait to see her story unfold in ME3, and I hope it's a major part of the game.

[KainrycKarr]

TeenZombie wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Liara changed. People tend to do that after years pass by and they lose close friends. Deal with it. Basically what all the romance fanboys/girls want is for the characters to not evolve or have any bad sides but to be perfect virtuous beings.

Ehh...maybe there are some fans who are upset with the characterization of the ME1 LIs because they have changed, but if they're still part of the Liara and Kaidan/Ash fanbase at this point, they probably like the "new" Liara, and/or were willing to forgive and forget the meeting on Horizon. 

I personally was upset at first, but now feel like Ashley and Kaidan had a right to feel hurt and confused when first seeing Shepard again.  I wish the meeting was handled better, but I wouldn't have wanted them to just come on back to my squad without any comment or opinion about joining Cerberus.  And Liara is more intriguing to me now than she was in ME1.  I can't wait to see her story unfold in ME3, and I hope it's a major part of the game.

I think, if you read my post, you might find some thoughts that should you and fellow ME1 characters fan a little reason for hope.

I believe what I have written makes sense in the context of what Casey Hudson has said regarding the squadmates and LI's of both games. I hope you agree.

[crimzontearz]

aww you quoted me



yes I am still pissed and yes Tali is still my nee GF

[Aielex]

Is this really a very very long rant about missing Liara as your romantic option? Really?

[Daeion]

meznaric wrote...

I think a lot will be explained in the comics as well as the rumoured Liara DLC... Let's not overreact too quickly.

Personally I don't feel that we should of had to wait for a DLC or something out of game, it should have been built into the game, but I understand that it's a carrot for BW to dangle in front of us to get us to spend more money.

[Nozybidaj]

self edit:  done

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 17 février 2010 - 11:10 .

[Daeion]

Sialater wrote...

I don't think they should introduce any new squadmembers and just flesh out the ME1s and ME2s.

Pretty sure I read an interview somewhere and they said they were already working on new squad mates...

At this point we have 16 potential squad mates if I did my math right, we really don't need to add more to it.  Personally if you're such a bad commander that your people keep dieing, do you really deserve another squad?  If you go into ME3 with only 2 ME 2 squad mates, plus Liara and a LI from ME1, which means you would of had to have killed wrex as well, then all you deserve is a bunch of random redshirts because that's all your squad is to you.  That right there would really be making your decisions count.

[Nozybidaj]

self edit: done

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 17 février 2010 - 11:10 .