123 réponses à ce sujet

[SovereignT]

What no one seems to realize is that its not just about *it* rather its about how it benefits the reapers in a whole.



Much like the geth there is no "I" only"we" therefore this reaper was intended to replace Sovereign's role in signaling in the reaper fleet and opening the gateway for the rest to follow.

[anmiro]

Sina84 wrote...

There seems to be something more to it than just procreation, given what Harbinger says during the game. "We are your salvation through destruction", "We are the harbingers of your ascension". Implying that they concider the act of turning a species into a Reaper something of a blessing, like reaching a higher tier of existance for that species, as if turning the human race into a Reaper is humanities ascension into something greater, something eternal, a way for a species to be preserved forever at its full potential.

Sovereign was pretty clear that Reapers concider themselves the apex of existance, and all Reapers are converted civilisations.

I found this to be a really good point because it is so clearly backed by the dialogue in the end of the game.  I'm not completely convinced that a giant human reaper was the best way they could have gone with completing the 2nd act but I think can atleast complete another playthrough without gritting my teeth. Thank you for all the feedback.

Modifié par anmiro, 18 février 2010 - 12:01 .

[avatarx21]

Ok.....but now what about the Protheans? Were they the only species existing across the galaxy 50,000 years ago or is it a blanket term used by modern day species? And since the protheans apparently could not be made into a successful reaper, does that mean that the last harvest was a complete wash, or do the reapers get/do other things when they come? The plot (or lack of) is still confusing me. I hope this fits in with your thread as I do not mean to hijack.

[anmiro]

Well, as I understand it, theres no reason to assume they didn't make a Prothean Reaper in their last go round. The Collectors are just a small portion of the Protheans who were basically turned into slave labor. And now in preparation for the next coming of the Reapers, they have already started creating a Human Reaper. Just as whatever race came before the Protheans probably made a Prothean Reaper.

[avatarx21]

You may be right. For some reason I thought it was stated that the Protheans failed when trying to make their reaper. Maybe I heard wrong.

[anmiro]

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, your referring to a question Shepard ask's EDI, as to why, if the Collectors are Prothean, are they building a human Reaper and not a Prothean Reaper.

[SovereignT]

avatarx21 wrote...

You may be right. For some reason I thought it was stated that the Protheans failed when trying to make their reaper. Maybe I heard wrong.

No

EDI simply states that its possible that they could had made it and failed but nothing concrete was said. Its possible that this prothean reaper my be of importance in me3..

[avatarx21]

"I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, your referring to a question Shepard ask's EDI, as to why, if the Collectors are Prothean, are they building a human Reaper and not a Prothean Reaper."



Yeah, probably. I'm on my second playthrough now....maybe I should turn the subtitles on.



"Much like the geth there is no "I" only"we" therefore this reaper was intended to replace Sovereign's role in signaling in the reaper fleet and opening the gateway for the rest to follow."



Is this a theory, or did I miss something else that was stated?

[Tandemir]

Some of you people are looking into these things waaaaay too much. It's getting quite a bit ridiculous with the arguments about what is logical and what isn't. This is science fiction. Note the word "fiction". If it was science fact, NASA would be at Bioware asking them how to build a ship to fly to pluto to find the mass relay.



I'm going to state it once more, just in case it wasn't clear enough the first time.



SCIENCE ***********************FICTION***********************

[anmiro]

Tandemir wrote...

Some of you people are looking into these things waaaaay too much. It's getting quite a bit ridiculous with the arguments about what is logical and what isn't. This is science fiction. Note the word "fiction". If it was science fact, NASA would be at Bioware asking them how to build a ship to fly to pluto to find the mass relay.

I'm going to state it once more, just in case it wasn't clear enough the first time.

SCIENCE ***********************FICTION***********************

The purpose of this thread was not to determine the "how", but the "why". My problem with end of the story is not how did the collectors build a giant human reaper, but why would they. I thought the questions was important because if  people can't give me a logical explanation as to  why, than the story really falls apart for me.

Modifié par anmiro, 18 février 2010 - 12:57 .

[Tahleron1]

Lightice_av wrote...

Even the most powerful computer in the world can't hold a candle to the human brain and no computer can learn and reason by itself.

Well, this doesn't apply in the Mass Effect universe, as EDI and the geth make clear. But the Reapers don't want brainpower, they want "genetic essence", whatever that's supposed to mean.
 

It's cultural assimilation, they come back, turn what they can into them, add another culture to them, retreat, ad infinitum, building up their culture of any many cultures of organic life within the history of the galaxy, there also seems to be retainment of cultural identity within a general reaper society in general, sort of like a really sinister, african-american, italian-american, etc etc, hence human-reaper, nazara-reaper, etc etc

Nazara most likely refers to the face it was built from.

Their modus operandi seems to be that organic life will inevitably destroy itself/restrict others, so they act pre-emptively to allow as many cultures to "survive", and the reason organics can't comprehend them is organics by genetic nature seek self preservation, so we by natural extension oppose the "beneficial order of the galaxy" (This is God reasoning essentially, we are right, you are wrong, we know best because you are ignorant, so you have no merits by which to question us).

Modifié par Tahleron1, 18 février 2010 - 01:03 .

[Nizzemancer]

Darth_Ultima wrote...

medlish wrote...

Darth_Ultima wrote...

medlish wrote...

computer programs can learn and reason by themselves.

No they can't.  Sometimes you can write programs that are incredibly adaptable but its because they are programed with detailed code that contains contingencies for every possible scenerio that the programer can envision.  They do what they are programed to do.  Eventually they will be able to but only because we have programed them to do so.

Yes it's because we programmed them. But that doesn't mean they can't learn or reason. They can. Also, in theory it is possible to emulate the human brain. There is nothing in your brain which can't be done with a computer. It's just that we humans are not intelligent enough or don't have enough time to create a program which has the capacities of a human.

I have been a programmer and would know if they develeped AI that had real intelligence,  In the most basic philosophical definition computers cannot reason because reason implies self-awareness and free will.  If a computer is left to its own devices it will only do what it is programmed to do and nothing else until it loses power.  Eventually (probably not in our lifetime) computers will be able too but as of right now I am not wrong to say they can't.

1. I'm quite sure we're talking about in game here, which happens to be a future where AI exist (just look at EDI).
2. If "Cause and Effect" is true then any life is just reacting to everything that has happened before. All our actions are reactions, in reality there is no free will.

[Korsriddare]

Tandemir wrote...

Some of you people are looking into these things waaaaay too much. It's getting quite a bit ridiculous with the arguments about what is logical and what isn't. This is science fiction. Note the word "fiction". If it was science fact, NASA would be at Bioware asking them how to build a ship to fly to pluto to find the mass relay.

I'm going to state it once more, just in case it wasn't clear enough the first time.

SCIENCE ***********************FICTION***********************

Good science fiction should at least be logically consistent within its setting.

[anmiro]

I'm not entirely sure how we got onto the topic of free will. You would have to look back to figure that out.

[rabbitchannel]

All the Reapers come together and then:

[Sina84]

Looking at it from the writers point of view, I don't see why they would bring up Protheans failing at making a Prothean-Reaper if that wasn't actually the case. Harbinger's comments about the other races in your party makes it clear that Reapers are very picky when it comes to turning a species into a Reaper. Turians too primitive, Drell too few etc. It's likely the Reapers just didn't find anyone worthy the last cycle, so they just turned Protheans into slaves in waiting for the next cycle. Like Vigil said, Reapers are patient.

Although, have to remember that the standard order of the Reaper process obviously includes the citadel relay actually working. Meaning Reapers show up, shut everything down, use indoctrinated helpers to abduct a chosen people and turn them into a new Reaper, then wipe everything out, keeping an inferior race indoctrinated and hidden near the galactic core, letting them - under Reaper guidance - transform their own genetic data over the next 50 000 years turning themselves into mindless servants. Given Saren's role, maybe Turians were set to become the new collectors?

Since the citadel relay didn't work this time around, and Sovereign was destroyed, the collectors had to start building the new Reaper without the Reapers direct help. The new human-Reaper was most likely grown with the intention of becoming the new vanguard to turn the citadel relay back on.

[Acero Azul]

i think they just took the idea from contra

Modifié par Acero Azul, 18 février 2010 - 01:46 .

[Borschtbeet]

Every fifty thousand years the Reapers harvest all space faring organic life in the universe for resources. Out of all the space-faring species in the galaxy they choose the one most worthy to be ascended into reaper hood and they melt down millions of that species to create another of their kind before retreating back into dark space.

The Protheans were the only space faring species in the last extinction cycle and for some reason they weren't fit to become reapers, so the Reapers genetically modified them to be tools.

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 18 février 2010 - 01:45 .

[The Capital Gaultier]

anmiro wrote...

Does anyone have anything intelligent to add about why the Reapers want the Collectors to build a giant human

Reaper evolution.

Reaper? And why did it have to be made from real humans?

Reaper evolution.

[Frotality]

its a potentially great twist ruined by a bad artistic choice.

coincidentally that seems to be bioware's excuse for every other bad design desicion; so hopefully they re-evaluate their artistic choices for the next game so we dont get liara running around vacuum in that scientist shirt with a gasmask, awesome armors that defeat the purpose of the modular armor system and are ruined by lack of helmet toggle, or a giant geth-shaped reaper or something.

[Wolfed]

Oh, there's nothing incredible about any sentient species building a religion around the circle of life. After all, compared to their cattle, they are pretty much gods.

[Darthnemesis2]

I have nothing really to add to this discussion, but I can't get the image of the Human Reaper (as in human-shaped) flying through space ala superman, shooting deathrays out of its eyes.

[Stephenc13]

EVERYONE SHUSH!!!

The collectors were looking for energon which were believed to be under human colonies! harvesting humans was a way to make them feel successful instead of turning up empty on every colony!!!! They were building Megatron!!!!!

[anmiro]

Ive seen a lot of people mention that the Collectors were building this new Reaper to complete Sovereigns task from ME1. That really doesn't make much sense to me. Does anyone have much information to back that up. Reapeating your first plan after it has already failed, seems like a pretty bad idea. I thought they made it pretty clear that even though they stopped Sovereign, it only delayed the Reapers. And the feeling I got from the very last cut scene of ME2, was that Reapers were getting close.

Modifié par anmiro, 18 février 2010 - 10:05 .