294 réponses à ce sujet

[SteelEagleShane]

SteelEagleShane wrote...

Marschun wrote...

zhijn, what i was saying isn't that i hate seeing them or reading them because i dont even come here that often. my point is that it is Actually affecting the game so that they keep making romance more and more important in the game and in turn focusing less on actually gameplay mechanics.

oh yeah, we have 6 LI's now but still not good solution to the mako/probe problem. plus the choices in ME2 seem so goddamn unimportant and nothing really happens to your characters depending on what choices you make, and yeah its possible for everyone to die but its perfectly possible to keep everyone alive on your first play through. i want life or death situations and choices and everyone else is just screaming "I WANNA BONE JOKER AND SEE TALI'S FACE".

Do you honestly think that they spent so long on romance subplots that they didn't have time to solve basic issues?
No. That is a stupid thought process. Gameplay decisions such as the Mako and Scanning weren't impacted by the writer writing for romance subplots. The romance subplots did not impact your shooting, movng, galaxy map, thermal clips, loss of customization, graphics, and ****ty scanning.

If you want to play the blame game, blame the new writer. My issue with the romances weren't the number of them, but how well developed they were. Except for returning characters, none of the romances were developed as well as any romance from the first. And even then, I spent 0.01% of my time thinking about the romances and even the most Tali-crazed fanatic spends perhaps 5% of his/her time in game worrying about it.

The issue I find with you is that you use generalizations and very poor analytical and forum skills to attack others. An example;
I supported this idea for a DLC Poker Game, hoping that it woul lead to a lot more squad dialogue. I say to put it in a larger expansion and it would be fun. Does this mean that I want to turn Mass Effect into the Intergalactic Series of Poker? No.
And because other people want to see well-developed romances be a part of Mass Effect 3 doesn't mean they want this to be a dating sim.

Quoting for response.

[SteelEagleShane]

SteelEagleShane wrote...

RE0305 wrote...

NoBrandOnMe wrote...

Why do you even care? Just ignore it in game and don't visit the threads.

I personally care becuase of finite resources, even with the success of both games, the developers will have a budget and a time limit. Choices have to be made, what to concentrate on, what to develop more what less. What to add, what to leave out. Every line of dialogue, every scene and every moment in the game has a price tag, it is like this with every business project and the making of Mass Effect 3 is also a business project.

For example in ME 2 having more squad members meant having less dialogue with each character. I see people on this boards saying Bioware dropped the ball with this and that, characters were too shallow bla bla bla. What people do not want to understand is that Bioware catered to almost every demand people made after ME1 and this is the result. To give fans what they demand, something has to be left out.

It is simply not possible to add everything in the game or to satisfy every wish. The argument that "If you dont like it don't use it, but it should still be an option.." is just ridiculous. The fact that something gets put into the game means something else is not, its inevitable and arguing otherwise is just wishful thinking.


As i mentioned before i enjoyed the romances and would like them to continue in ME 3, but i don't want them to become the centre of the story.


As for people telling the OP to ignore the threads whatever, its kinda hard isn't it? Because if it weren't you would have ignored this particualr thread.

 But here is where I believe you and the OP separate:
You are talking about squad interaction and dialogue being impacted. He talked about gameplay mechanics being hurt using examples such as the mako and probes. His complaints and beliefs are idiotic; yours have more standing.

That being said, I still believe you are wrong to blame the romance subplots. If I remember, there were Ashley, Kaiden, and Liara in ME1. Three. However, they did want to use Tali and didn't only because they didn't know if people would mind the chicken feet. So she counts as being, at the very very very least, haf justified for ME2. So let us say four for ME2. But we have two more- Garrus and Thane. Garrus made sense since he was developed from ME1. Thane worked but I can agree with you that six was too much, Agreed!

BUT....
I think that is due to having a new writer. ME2 was not written by the same guy who wrote ME1. That is why I believe squad interaction was poor compared to ME1.

Quote for response here as well.

[Frotality]

and your gonna stop it with an angry internet rant!!!!

"stay in the ship kid. anymore time in the real world and you might have to learn something."

[Brienna_]

Tyreal42a wrote...

Jarcander wrote...

That's a nice tombstone. I hope it's a romantic interest in ME3.

I hope you are...

[OldMan91]

[jingweisun]

adriano_c wrote...



I'm curious as to how many actual different people are posting in that 20,000+ response 'Tali thread'...is it just the same 10-20 obsessives? I can't be bothered to actually check, lol.

thats still small because milions of gamers bought the game

there is too much romance. since u only romance one at a time so much dialogue is wasted. the story is more tame and theres less npc convs compared to me1. theres almost no one to talk to in the environments, and they just talk one or two lines at most

there is nothing spectacular in the main story

this was supposed to be a dark second chapter with lots of ass kicking. after omega it loses steam because bioware tried to do too much and please all the irrational crazy fans

Modifié par jingweisun, 17 février 2010 - 10:39 .

[Chaos VI]

well my friend just linked me this thread... wow, they really let anybody make threads.

[SteelEagleShane]

jingweisun wrote...

adriano_c wrote...



I'm curious as to how many actual different people are posting in that 20,000+ response 'Tali thread'...is it just the same 10-20 obsessives? I can't be bothered to actually check, lol.

thats still small because milions of gamers bought the game

there is too much romance. since u only romance one at a time so much dialogue is wasted. the story is more tame and theres less npc convs compared to me1

I believe this is due to the new writer. I know from experience that five people can have the same idea for a story and write it five different ways.

[SkywardDescent]

-snip-

Modifié par SkywardDescent, 17 février 2010 - 10:37 .

[lobotomy42]

Personally, I like dating sims.

[Marilynn-22]

[RE0305]

SteelEagleShane wrote...

RE0305 wrote...

NoBrandOnMe wrote...

Why do you even care? Just ignore it in game and don't visit the threads.

I personally care becuase of finite resources, even with the success of both games, the developers will have a budget and a time limit. Choices have to be made, what to concentrate on, what to develop more what less. What to add, what to leave out. Every line of dialogue, every scene and every moment in the game has a price tag, it is like this with every business project and the making of Mass Effect 3 is also a business project.

For example in ME 2 having more squad members meant having less dialogue with each character. I see people on this boards saying Bioware dropped the ball with this and that, characters were too shallow bla bla bla. What people do not want to understand is that Bioware catered to almost every demand people made after ME1 and this is the result. To give fans what they demand, something has to be left out.

It is simply not possible to add everything in the game or to satisfy every wish. The argument that "If you dont like it don't use it, but it should still be an option.." is just ridiculous. The fact that something gets put into the game means something else is not, its inevitable and arguing otherwise is just wishful thinking.


As i mentioned before i enjoyed the romances and would like them to continue in ME 3, but i don't want them to become the centre of the story.


As for people telling the OP to ignore the threads whatever, its kinda hard isn't it? Because if it weren't you would have ignored this particualr thread.

 But here is where I believe you and the OP separate:
You are talking about squad interaction and dialogue being impacted. He talked about gameplay mechanics being hurt using examples such as the mako and probes. His complaints and beliefs are idiotic; yours have more standing.

That being said, I still believe you are wrong to blame the romance subplots. If I remember, there were Ashley, Kaiden, and Liara in ME1. Three. However, they did want to use Tali and didn't only because they didn't know if people would mind the chicken feet. So she counts as being, at the very very very least, haf justified for ME2. So let us say four for ME2. But we have two more- Garrus and Thane. Garrus made sense since he was developed from ME1. Thane worked but I can agree with you that six was too much, Agreed!

BUT....
I think that is due to having a new writer. ME2 was not written by the same guy who wrote ME1. That is why I believe squad interaction was poor compared to ME1.

I very much like ME2 and have very little qualms about it, i missed the Mako of course, but i also enjoyed the new more detailed side mission planets, and i enjoyed the romance subplots aswell, but missed the squad interaction. Can't have them all, in the end i think ME2 is a much better game.

What i have a problem with is people are demanding even more romance and i am afraid if those wishes are granted, other aspects will be affected even more.

Its about balance and overall i am happy with the balance in ME2, i just don't want ME3 to become Romeo and Juliet. I already enjoy the play, don't need to play it on my xbox all over again.

[conglomerator]

BLASPHEMER!



TALI FOR ME3, yo!

[Ieldra]

IccaRa wrote...
That said, people discuss romances because interpersonal relationships resonate with the masses. Not everyone can be bothered to understand heatsink mechanics or discuss the philosophical quandaries of geth sentience, as fascinating as those things are. But everyone understands what a relationship is.

And there may be those people who like both. An SF story without intriguing scientific, technological or philosophical concepts is as empty as any story without characters and their relationships. The problem in ME2 is, the main plot is rather small in terms of screen presence, compared to the characters' stories. Of course people talk about the characters more. There is also much interesting stuff debated in the romance threads, although it's often hidden among less substantive entries.

[Kusy]

jingweisun wrote...

adriano_c wrote...



I'm curious as to how many actual different people are posting in that 20,000+ response 'Tali thread'...is it just the same 10-20 obsessives? I can't be bothered to actually check, lol.

thats still small because milions of gamers bought the game

there is too much romance. since u only romance one at a time so much dialogue is wasted. the story is more tame and theres less npc convs compared to me1

That's called replayability you know? Developers asume that you want to check out other dialogue, thanks to that you spend more time playing the game. And I seriously don't understand where did you get the idea that because of romance dialogue there's less content in the game... it's really random.

[Nightwriter]

SteelEagleShane wrote...

SteelEagleShane wrote...

RE0305 wrote...

NoBrandOnMe wrote...

Why do you even care? Just ignore it in game and don't visit the threads.

I personally care becuase of finite resources, even with the success of both games, the developers will have a budget and a time limit. Choices have to be made, what to concentrate on, what to develop more what less. What to add, what to leave out. Every line of dialogue, every scene and every moment in the game has a price tag, it is like this with every business project and the making of Mass Effect 3 is also a business project.

For example in ME 2 having more squad members meant having less dialogue with each character. I see people on this boards saying Bioware dropped the ball with this and that, characters were too shallow bla bla bla. What people do not want to understand is that Bioware catered to almost every demand people made after ME1 and this is the result. To give fans what they demand, something has to be left out.

It is simply not possible to add everything in the game or to satisfy every wish. The argument that "If you dont like it don't use it, but it should still be an option.." is just ridiculous. The fact that something gets put into the game means something else is not, its inevitable and arguing otherwise is just wishful thinking.


As i mentioned before i enjoyed the romances and would like them to continue in ME 3, but i don't want them to become the centre of the story.


As for people telling the OP to ignore the threads whatever, its kinda hard isn't it? Because if it weren't you would have ignored this particualr thread.

 But here is where I believe you and the OP separate:
You are talking about squad interaction and dialogue being impacted. He talked about gameplay mechanics being hurt using examples such as the mako and probes. His complaints and beliefs are idiotic; yours have more standing.

That being said, I still believe you are wrong to blame the romance subplots. If I remember, there were Ashley, Kaiden, and Liara in ME1. Three. However, they did want to use Tali and didn't only because they didn't know if people would mind the chicken feet. So she counts as being, at the very very very least, haf justified for ME2. So let us say four for ME2. But we have two more- Garrus and Thane. Garrus made sense since he was developed from ME1. Thane worked but I can agree with you that six was too much, Agreed!

BUT....
I think that is due to having a new writer. ME2 was not written by the same guy who wrote ME1. That is why I believe squad interaction was poor compared to ME1.

Quote for response here as well.

Well, shucks, if you'd like my opinion...

I completely concur. That is, if you're saying it's wrong for anyone to say that game resources and game quality is being hurt by romances. These romances aren't hurting anything important and they're quite enjoyable. For me, it's pretty much:


Will the romances ever go away? No.
 
Is there a danger Bioware will start making their games primarily about romances? No.
 
Do we have anything to be really concerned about? No.

[jingweisun]

if bioware grants your wish i sincerely hope tali suffers a long death sequence by a giant robot

Modifié par jingweisun, 17 février 2010 - 10:41 .

[SteelEagleShane]

RE0305 wrote...

SteelEagleShane wrote...

RE0305 wrote...

NoBrandOnMe wrote...

Why do you even care? Just ignore it in game and don't visit the threads.

I personally care becuase of finite resources, even with the success of both games, the developers will have a budget and a time limit. Choices have to be made, what to concentrate on, what to develop more what less. What to add, what to leave out. Every line of dialogue, every scene and every moment in the game has a price tag, it is like this with every business project and the making of Mass Effect 3 is also a business project.

For example in ME 2 having more squad members meant having less dialogue with each character. I see people on this boards saying Bioware dropped the ball with this and that, characters were too shallow bla bla bla. What people do not want to understand is that Bioware catered to almost every demand people made after ME1 and this is the result. To give fans what they demand, something has to be left out.

It is simply not possible to add everything in the game or to satisfy every wish. The argument that "If you dont like it don't use it, but it should still be an option.." is just ridiculous. The fact that something gets put into the game means something else is not, its inevitable and arguing otherwise is just wishful thinking.


As i mentioned before i enjoyed the romances and would like them to continue in ME 3, but i don't want them to become the centre of the story.


As for people telling the OP to ignore the threads whatever, its kinda hard isn't it? Because if it weren't you would have ignored this particualr thread.

 But here is where I believe you and the OP separate:
You are talking about squad interaction and dialogue being impacted. He talked about gameplay mechanics being hurt using examples such as the mako and probes. His complaints and beliefs are idiotic; yours have more standing.

That being said, I still believe you are wrong to blame the romance subplots. If I remember, there were Ashley, Kaiden, and Liara in ME1. Three. However, they did want to use Tali and didn't only because they didn't know if people would mind the chicken feet. So she counts as being, at the very very very least, haf justified for ME2. So let us say four for ME2. But we have two more- Garrus and Thane. Garrus made sense since he was developed from ME1. Thane worked but I can agree with you that six was too much, Agreed!

BUT....
I think that is due to having a new writer. ME2 was not written by the same guy who wrote ME1. That is why I believe squad interaction was poor compared to ME1.

I very much like ME2 and have very little qualms about it, i missed the Mako of course, but i also enjoyed the new more detailed side mission planets, and i enjoyed the romance subplots aswell, but missed the squad interaction. Can't have them all, in the end i think ME2 is a much better game.

What i have a problem with is people are demanding even more romance and i am afraid if those wishes are granted, other aspects will be affected even more.

Its about balance and overall i am happy with the balance in ME2, i just don't want ME3 to become Romeo and Juliet. I already enjoy the play, don't need to play it on my xbox all over again.

Then we mostly agree. The game won't become like Romeo and Juliet and, despite what people may think, Bioware is not made up of tools. They will listen to us, but they will mostly listening for problems. Lack of squad interaction, which is about the only issue I can see someone attempting to say with a straight face is the one thing that was impacted by the Romances, is a pretty common problem. It will be fixed, either with a new/old writer or by the writer of ME2 learning.

[Dragonfable of Dain]

leave this creepy romantic feelings towards a virtual character to the JRPG and anime fans. stop demanding characters be kept around or be more important in the next game. stop demanding and asking that any  recurring or somewhat important character be romanceable and LET BIOWARE TELL THEIR GODDAMN STORY.

I loved the fact that characters were always going to die in ME1 and you had to decide who live and who wouldnt and i have no doubt the reason its so easy to keep everyone alive in this game is just so they dont step on any creepy fantics toes. its a shame that what will possibly be one of the best trilogies ever will have its story telling watered down to allow people to keep every character they like.

 You do have some points but for one thing I thought Bioware designed Mass Effect to be able to be more of "your story in our world". Second in ME2 loads of people on your team may die the only reason they don't is beacuse the thing called the forums that have all the little stratagies to keep everyone alive.

[Dragonfable of Dain]

Srry double post my bad

Modifié par Dragonfable of Dain, 17 février 2010 - 10:42 .

[Marschun]

SteelEagleShane wrote...

SteelEagleShane wrote...

Marschun wrote...

zhijn, what i was saying isn't that i hate seeing them or reading them because i dont even come here that often. my point is that it is Actually affecting the game so that they keep making romance more and more important in the game and in turn focusing less on actually gameplay mechanics.

oh yeah, we have 6 LI's now but still not good solution to the mako/probe problem. plus the choices in ME2 seem so goddamn unimportant and nothing really happens to your characters depending on what choices you make, and yeah its possible for everyone to die but its perfectly possible to keep everyone alive on your first play through. i want life or death situations and choices and everyone else is just screaming "I WANNA BONE JOKER AND SEE TALI'S FACE".

Do you honestly think that they spent so long on romance subplots that they didn't have time to solve basic issues?
No. That is a stupid thought process. Gameplay decisions such as the Mako and Scanning weren't impacted by the writer writing for romance subplots. The romance subplots did not impact your shooting, movng, galaxy map, thermal clips, loss of customization, graphics, and ****ty scanning.

If you want to play the blame game, blame the new writer. My issue with the romances weren't the number of them, but how well developed they were. Except for returning characters, none of the romances were developed as well as any romance from the first. And even then, I spent 0.01% of my time thinking about the romances and even the most Tali-crazed fanatic spends perhaps 5% of his/her time in game worrying about it.

The issue I find with you is that you use generalizations and very poor analytical and forum skills to attack others. An example;
I supported this idea for a DLC Poker Game, hoping that it woul lead to a lot more squad dialogue. I say to put it in a larger expansion and it would be fun. Does this mean that I want to turn Mass Effect into the Intergalactic Series of Poker? No.
And because other people want to see well-developed romances be a part of Mass Effect 3 doesn't mean they want this to be a dating sim.

Quoting for response.

theres nothing to respond to here at all. like the other guy said awhile ago and i agreed with, all time spent working on romances is time taken away from other areas because of a time and cash limit. this guy then just basically says "no , thats stupid theres no reason to think like that, its because of the new writer." he doesnt really explain why our way of thinking is stupid and why his blaming of the writer isnt.

both those points actually make some sense, but the writer has nothing to do with certain things getting less attention than the romance mechanics.

[jingweisun]

Mr.Kusy wrote...


That's called replayability you know? Developers asume that you want to check out other dialogue, thanks to that you spend more time playing the game. And I seriously don't understand where did you get the idea that because of romance dialogue there's less content in the game... it's really random.

i can only replay it so many times just to see the tiny difference in game. after that it gets mind numbingly boring

theres less content as in conversations with other npc chars because u can only pay for so many voice actors for so many lines

i liked the romance in me1 because there was so much ineresting conversation and u had to make such a difficult decision

Modifié par jingweisun, 17 février 2010 - 10:45 .

[Druss99]

SteelEagleShane wrote...

Druss99 wrote...

RE0305 wrote...

NoBrandOnMe wrote...

Why do you even care? Just ignore it in game and don't visit the threads.

I personally care becuase of finite resources, even with the success of both games, the developers will have a budget and a time limit. Choices have to be made, what to concentrate on, what to develop more what less. What to add, what to leave out. Every line of dialogue, every scene and every moment in the game has a price tag, it is like this with every business project and the making of Mass Effect 3 is also a business project.
For example in ME 2 having more squad members meant having less dialogue with each character. I see people on this boards saying Bioware dropped the ball with this and that, characters were too shallow bla bla bla. What people do not want to understand is that Bioware catered to almost every demand people made after ME1 and this is the result. To give fans what they demand, something has to be left out.
It is simply not possible to add everything in the game or to satisfy every wish. The argument that "If you dont like it don't use it, but it should still be an option.." is just ridiculous. The fact that something gets put into the game means something else is not, its inevitable and arguing otherwise is just wishful thinking.
As i mentioned before i enjoyed the romances and would like them to continue in ME 3, but i don't want them to become the centre of the story.
As for people telling the OP to ignore the threads whatever, its kinda hard isn't it? Because if it weren't you would have ignored this particualr thread.

Well said sir...well said. I agree 100%.

I also love how everyone except maybe 4 or 5 people on this thread have completely missed the OP's point. He is being bashed for a point he didnt make .

I've actually responded twice, each time with going to the problem. Haven't gotten responses from either one, which makes me believe that they don't have anything to back ther beliefs up with.

Yeah like I said 4 or 5 people actually got the point but its lost in the sea of "LEAVE ROMANCE ALONE I PLAY HOW I WANT GRRRR!!" that is missing the point entirely.

Im not saying the OP is 100% correct or worded it in the best manner but he does have a valid point. Just my opinion but I felt Tali was shoehorned into a huge role almost to appease her fans. And I would hate to see that happen again on a larger scale, with everyone being jammed into your squad just to appease groups of fans, cutting down on potential dialogue and writing being focused on the ones who really matter.

But maybe its as you said just the result of a different lead writer this time round.

[SteelEagleShane]

Nightwriter wrote...


Well, shucks, if you'd like my opinion...

I completely concur. That is, if you're saying it's wrong for anyone to say that game resources and game quality is being hurt by romances. These romances aren't hurting anything important and they're quite enjoyable. For me, it's pretty much:


Will the romances ever go away? No.
 
Is there a danger Bioware will start making their games primarily about romances? No.
 
Do we have anything to be really concerned about? No.

lol, looking mostly for opposing opinions, but nice to have someone agree with me. But yeah, that is pretty much what I was saying.