66 réponses à ce sujet

[Rylor Tormtor]

This has been brought up in a couple threads, but I thought a simple request might do it.

Warning: Lots of Spoilers, but if you are here, you should be prepared. You are forewarned.




Aside from the incrediblely minor things that will carry over from our DA:O playover, what situation is considered canon? It may sound lame, but I would might interested in replaying a warden to do the US with canon choices so I can give myself the illusion of continuity. So, as far the big questions:

1) The monarchy - Is the Anora/Alistair pairing the canon ending?

2) Loghain - Dead or Alive?

3) Elves and Werewolves - One side dead, or the happy resolution?

4) Who is king of the Dwarves?
                   4a) ****** Golems or sans Golems?

5) Redcliffe - Mommy Dead, Kiddie Dead, or Happy ending?

6) Circle - Templars or Magi?


Of course, the ending is the Dark Ritual.

Please post any other MAJOR descisions, i.e. things that can't be mentioned in a letter or random conversation, that you would like to know what the canonical answer is.

[Feraele]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

This has been brought up in a couple threads, but I thought a simple request might do it.

Warning: Lots of Spoilers, but if you are here, you should be prepared. You are forewarned.




Aside from the incrediblely minor things that will carry over from our DA:O playover, what situation is considered canon? It may sound lame, but I would might interested in replaying a warden to do the US with canon choices so I can give myself the illusion of continuity. So, as far the big questions:

1) The monarchy - Is the Anora/Alistair pairing the canon ending?

2) Loghain - Dead or Alive?

3) Elves and Werewolves - One side dead, or the happy resolution?

4) Who is king of the Dwarves?
                   4a) ****** Golems or sans Golems?

5) Redcliffe - Mommy Dead, Kiddie Dead, or Happy ending?

6) Circle - Templars or Magi?


Of course, the ending is the Dark Ritual.

Please post any other MAJOR descisions, i.e. things that can't be mentioned in a letter or random conversation, that you would like to know what the canonical answer is.

Agreed..I think the frustration with the Ultimate Sacrifice ending..has gone on for a few days,  maybe this is providing entertainment for those that write these things up..or maybe not I don't know.

But I can't see any point in spending 80 hours per run-through only to have it taken away from you by some written in stone..prior decision by the Dev team.

I am not satisfied with the answer that the US ..warden just gets up and walks away from dying.  Nor am I satisfied with the no choice option of leaving them dead ..and pretending that 80 hours was never played.

So a canon announcement..would be welcome here.....frankly.

[Curlain]

Indeed I agree, I strongly fear that the US ending no longer exists effectively an that Awakening is moving things to making the Dark Ritual canon (possibly setting things up for DA2).



But it would be nice to have some clarification on this

[Nobody Important]

I don't think there is a canon.(yet) But last night there was a thread where David Gaider said his favorite ending was Loghain doing the ultimate sacrifice.

[Bratt1204]

I don't think we will know the canon ending (beginning of Awakening) until it is released and someone plays as the Orlesian Grey Warden Commander. They most likely will not mention the details on that in advance (I only assume)

[TheMadCat]

I don't see how this is leading to canon. If they wanted to go the route of canon and make the Dark Ritual a given then it would have simply been done here and made life simple for them. As is there are still two ending that stick that avoid the DR and where the player lives. I don't know why this decision was made, but I don't really see it as a push towards forcing the Dark Ritual happen when it was supposed to happen in game, they may create some plot line where she has the child anyways just not from the Warden, maybe she snuck in on Alistair or something.

[Vuokseniska]

there is always a possibility that they use the KOTOR2 style when your are doing the US.



Anyway, there prolly isn't a cannon clarification otherwise you wouldn't have the options in the first place. Even that is obvious in awakening as Wynn enora and allister are all optional characters.



And thus also a reason why there aren't books after the events of this game

[Feraele]

Nobody Important wrote...

I don't think there is a canon.(yet) But last night there was a thread where David Gaider said his favorite ending was Loghain doing the ultimate sacrifice.

Thats his personal favorite..not necessarily the one deemed as "canon"  

Personally?  I would NEVER let Loghain do that..lol after all the bad stuff he's done to people around him, let him go off into the blue as a hero? NO 

[Dick Delaware]

From what I understand of the Awakening FAQ:



If a player wants to, they can import their "Dead Warden" into Awakening and play as them. For the story it's assumed that they didn't make the ultimate sacrifice, instead somehow survived. A player would start as the same level with the same gear as their "Dead Warden". Essentially, if a player doesn't have a problem hand-waiving the story in this regard - neither do we.



This means that you can't import your Sacrifice decisions unto an Orlesian Grey Warden, going contrary to what some of the devs said when the expansion was initially announced. The only way that you can import him is by essentially disregarding the choice at the end and becoming a walking plot hole. Am I right on this?

[Vuokseniska]

yes, or let him die and use the orlesian as a fresh start

[Feraele]

Dick Delaware wrote...

From what I understand of the Awakening FAQ:

If a player wants to, they can import their "Dead Warden" into Awakening and play as them. For the story it's assumed that they didn't make the ultimate sacrifice, instead somehow survived. A player would start as the same level with the same gear as their "Dead Warden". Essentially, if a player doesn't have a problem hand-waiving the story in this regard - neither do we.

This means that you can't import your Sacrifice decisions unto an Orlesian Grey Warden, going contrary to what some of the devs said when the expansion was initially announced. The only way that you can import him is by essentially disregarding the choice at the end and becoming a walking plot hole. Am I right on this?

Yup pretty much. 

[Barbarossa2010]

TheMadCat wrote...

I don't see how this is leading to canon. If they wanted to go the route of canon and make the Dark Ritual a given then it would have simply been done here and made life simple for them. As is there are still two ending that stick that avoid the DR and where the player lives. I don't know why this decision was made, but I don't really see it as a push towards forcing the Dark Ritual happen when it was supposed to happen in game, they may create some plot line where she has the child anyways just not from the Warden, maybe she snuck in on Alistair or something.

The DR is not the rub per se; making the demon child canon will be the issue.  The problem will be for those who turned down the DR completely, sent Morrigan packing, and did, as a result, die at the end with the Archdemon and PC obliterating each other's soul; Morrigan cannot be pregnant at the time of the killing blow on the AD, which we all know is what makes the Ritual work.  We certainly know it does work, because if you do it, you do, in fact, live.  How do you overcome that disparity?  If there is a mechanism for this to happen, I really couldn't even speculate.  My Warden is dead and interred at Weisshaupt.  That's all I know that is a fact at present.  I hope his sacrifice is not marginalized by some canonical delcaration.  If he's dead there should be no demon child, it's as simple as that. 

Perhaps there is a magical soultion available with the Fade, or a deeper magic that we are currently unaware aware of, or the writers leverage the limitations of the characters in the game where the Warden's have imperfect knowledge about what happens when dealing the death blow on the AD; something along the lines that both souls are not actually annihilated, but in limbo deep in the Fade somewhere, blah, (speculate on ambiguous plot line) blah, blah...

It'll be interesting.  But I see little reason to have so much choice in a game, if BW is just going to tell us the way things are going to be anyway.

[Barbarossa2010]

Having read a few posts above (I had to walk away before I finished my thought) it seems Bioware has their solution if what you say is true. The player can decide if he's dedicated to his sacrificial ending or wave it off. If so, then the bottom line on the move into the future is: sacrifice = plot neutralized.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 17 février 2010 - 10:46 .

[Rylor Tormtor]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

I don't see how this is leading to canon. If they wanted to go the route of canon and make the Dark Ritual a given then it would have simply been done here and made life simple for them. As is there are still two ending that stick that avoid the DR and where the player lives. I don't know why this decision was made, but I don't really see it as a push towards forcing the Dark Ritual happen when it was supposed to happen in game, they may create some plot line where she has the child anyways just not from the Warden, maybe she snuck in on Alistair or something.

The DR is not the rub per se; making the demon child canon will be the issue.  The problem will be for those who turned down the DR completely, sent Morrigan packing, and did, as a result, die at the end with the Archdemon and PC obliterating each other's soul; Morrigan cannot be pregnant at the time of the killing blow on the AD, which we all know is what makes the Ritual work.  We certainly know it does work, because if you do it, you do, in fact, live.  How do you overcome that disparity?  If there is a mechanism for this to happen, I really couldn't even speculate.  My Warden is dead and interred at Weisshaupt.  That's all I know that is a fact at present.  I hope his sacrifice is not marginalized by some canonical delcaration.  If he's dead there should be no demon child, it's as simple as that. 

Perhaps there is a magical soultion available with the Fade, or a deeper magic that we are currently unaware aware of, or the writers leverage the limitations of the characters in the game where the Warden's have imperfect knowledge about what happens when dealing the death blow on the AD; something along the lines that both souls are not actually annihilated, but in limbo deep in the Fade somewhere, blah, (speculate on ambiguous plot line) blah, blah...

It'll be interesting.  But I see little reason to have so much choice in a game, if BW is just going to tell us the way things are going to be anyway.

Well, the DR has been stated as the canon ending. I agree, there could have been a number of ways to allow Morrigan to have the demon baby and have the warden die, but this does not seem to be the case. Choices, as stated in the fact are:
1) Import DR character, which Morrigan and Demon-baby wandering around
2) Import US character, but ret-coned to DR ending and re-vivified, with Morrigan and Demon-baby wandering around
3) Start Orleisan Warden, with Origins Warden having taken the DR route, with Morrigan and Demon-baby wandering around

[Drasanil]

Given that we are playing set characters (fixed family names and origins) I think if Bioware ever decides on a canon ending, they'll probably do something similar to Diablo in that there wasn't just one warden, but multiple ones (likely one from each origin, probably matching the promo looks), and simply apply all the special origin rewards to canon. As for the desicions, they'll probably go the route of best possible outcome (ie: Anora+Alistair, Elves and Werewolves both happy, and so forth), which most would likely satisfy most players and make the most sense given the all the possible outcomes.



It could also lead to some interesting origin options in DAO2 if it's set in Ferelden again, like playing an Elf Noble from the Tabris line, a mage free from the chantry etc etc...

[shedevil3001]

now that i would pay extra for especially if alistair was still in it and my choices were carried over ie the marriage ending

[Dockery]

Was it not obvious to everyone that the DR was canon? It was just so "in your face" that it was blatant. If you chose to go against that then that was your choice (or miscalculation). You will have to face the consequences of that in expansions and sequels, regardless if they retcon things when you import your sacrificed character.



While that may not be fair, there has to be SOME canon to the series or else there can be no real sequels with any sense of structure.

[TheMadCat]

@Barborassa: I don't know, but from a writers perspective nothing there was set in stone which allows them to play around and do what they need to do. Look, the source of all this wonderful information is a habitual liar who is out to serve her own personal agenda. We know what Morrigan told us, weather what Morrigan told us is the whole story is impossible to tell and this is why I say there may be something there we don't know. As you said we do know it works, exactly how it works and exactly how much control and influence Morrigan has over it we don't know.

I just think there are plenty of ways for them to make it happen without stepping on the players toes. Morrigan is her own person, she has her own objectives. Just because her first option rejected her doesn't mean she should crawl into a corner and wither away, especially if she has other options which she wasn't quite upfront about with the warden.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 17 février 2010 - 10:56 .

[shedevil3001]

i think the 2 grey wardens should of had a baby we both know that it wouldnt be normal so it could be used as a enemy later on in other expansions or dao 2 theres alot of possible ideas that they could do

[blademaster7]

The DR ending will eventually be canon, isn't it obvious?  I realized it the moment I saw Morrigan's ending on my first playthrough. What did you guys expect? That you can keep playing with a dead character? Or are you expecting Bioware to just drop their "amazing idea for a sequel" ?


BUT... Nothing was stated yet.

As far as I know, there are 2 endings where your character is alive without the DR(Alistair or Loghain taking the blow). I think I'll enjoy them before they get brushed aside along with the US.

EDIT: Damn... I just realized that I wrote the same thing as Dockery above  lol...

Modifié par blademaster7, 17 février 2010 - 11:03 .

[Feraele]

Dockery wrote...

Was it not obvious to everyone that the DR was canon? It was just so "in your face" that it was blatant. If you chose to go against that then that was your choice (or miscalculation). You will have to face the consequences of that in expansions and sequels, regardless if they retcon things when you import your sacrificed character.

While that may not be fair, there has to be SOME canon to the series or else there can be no real sequels with any sense of structure.

We realize there has to be canon..eventually...thats the WHOLE purpose of this particular thread..its the answer we are seeking...confirmation.

[shedevil3001]

very true that way it shouldnt have too many flaws in the storyline