66 réponses à ce sujet

[shedevil3001]

i think all the plot should be planned in advance for the main game and the first 3 expansion if its a ongoing story or collection or whatever you call it so that it all follows on without all sorts of flaws in the plot

[Vicious]

Bioware should stick to linear plots.

[Rylor Tormtor]

distinguetraces wrote...

Dockery wrote...
there has to be SOME canon to the series or else there can be no real sequels with any sense of structure.

Except that ME2 has just very, very skillfully achieved a sequel that reflects varying choices in the original game while continuing to advance a compelling linear narrative.

In what way? A couple changed models, a quest or 2, and some emails do not meaningful choices make.

[Barbarossa2010]

blademaster7 wrote...

The DR ending will eventually be canon, isn't it obvious?  I realized it the moment I saw Morrigan's ending on my first playthrough. What did you guys expect? That you can keep playing with a dead character? Or are you expecting Bioware to just drop their "amazing idea for a sequel" ?


BUT... Nothing was stated yet.

As far as I know, there are 2 endings where your character is alive without the DR(Alistair or Loghain taking the blow). I think I'll enjoy them before they get brushed aside along with the US.

EDIT: Damn... I just realized that I wrote the same thing as Dockery above  lol...

And you know the reason I did the Sacrificial end!  

With all my criticisms of the Dark Ritual and my Warden's denial of being allowed to remain in character as a GREY WARDEN when presented it, now it seems my lastest Warden's attempt to keep a demon baby from being spawned will evidently now also be denied.

I know with the availability of opportunities for the Swamp Witch to make it happen and only the one that would deny her this, it was inevitable. 

Nothing like the illusion of choice, huh?

[Bratt1204]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

The DR ending will eventually be canon, isn't it obvious?  I realized it the moment I saw Morrigan's ending on my first playthrough. What did you guys expect? That you can keep playing with a dead character? Or are you expecting Bioware to just drop their "amazing idea for a sequel" ?


BUT... Nothing was stated yet.

As far as I know, there are 2 endings where your character is alive without the DR(Alistair or Loghain taking the blow). I think I'll enjoy them before they get brushed aside along with the US.

EDIT: Damn... I just realized that I wrote the same thing as Dockery above  lol...

And you know the reason I did the Sacrificial end!  

With all my criticisms of the Dark Ritual and my Warden's denial of being allowed to remain in character as a GREY WARDEN when presented it, now it seems my lastest Warden's attempt to keep a demon baby from being spawned will evidently now also be denied.

I know with the availability of opportunities for the Swamp Witch to make it happen and only the one that would deny her this, it was inevitable. 

Nothing like the illusion of choice, huh?

I don't think the 'baby' is necessarily going to be demon-baby? Didn't Morrigan specifically say it would not be evil? That's what I recall from the conversation with her. 

[Feraele]

Once the Old God transfers its soul into the embryo..supposedly there..the taint is removed..the Old God is purified and becomes ..I gather, what it was before being tainted.



Thats alot of power and survival stuff....exactly what Morrigan wants if you have had that conversation with her. "Beauty and love are fleeting".

[Onyx Jaguar]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

distinguetraces wrote...

Dockery wrote...
there has to be SOME canon to the series or else there can be no real sequels with any sense of structure.

Except that ME2 has just very, very skillfully achieved a sequel that reflects varying choices in the original game while continuing to advance a compelling linear narrative.

In what way? A couple changed models, a quest or 2, and some emails do not meaningful choices make.

So on the other side we should just expect that the meaningful choices will be made for us?

I'll take ME 2's approach anyday over that.

[Dick Delaware]

I'm sure Morrigan lied by omission, but so far, much of what she has said was true. If you perform the Ritual, you are alive, after all.



The baby isn't an archdemon or darkspawn or something. It'll be a normal child, with the soul of an Old God. It will be changed, but it won't mutate into some hideous abomination.

[Feraele]

.......... something kind of cryptic that Flemeth says after the flying rescue at the Tower of Ishal



"Consider this repayment for your lives". That always sounded very odd to me, but when you put it in the context of what Morrigan states as she's attempting to convince you to have the DR done "this is why Flemeth sent me with you" or something like that. It was the plan all along.



Which means..this part of the story definitely has bigger repercussions...its an underlying theme..in the background, but still there.

[Maria Caliban]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Well, the DR has been stated as the canon ending.

No.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Well, the DR has been stated as the canon ending.

No.

I haven't read that either.

Besides there are four groups in this debate.

One, (which I am apart of) unrealistically would like a breadth of options.  I wouldn't mind a toned down approach like in ME 2, but many more in this group hated how that turned out.

The second, used the Dark Ritual, expect it to be canon.

The third, did US, expect that to be canon.  (3 1/2 used Loghain or Alistair as US, expect to be canon)

Any canonization would anger two thirds of those whether or not it was DR or US, and Bioware wouldn't just announce that so quickly.

But the most important is the Fourth.  Which is many who have played it and did not beat it or potential customers since almost always these days the sequel sells much more than the original.  And these people would not be following it so it wouldn't matter if Bioware just created a new storyline altogether or whatever they chose.

If they take this into account they could free up their story threads and analyze alternatives better.  Could be the best compromise but it also could anger the hardcore DA players.  

[Rylor Tormtor]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Well, the DR has been stated as the canon ending.

No.

Wa?

How is this not the case?

EDIT: Maybe I am reading too much into this:

2.3 – If my PC died at the end of Dragon Age: Origins how are they alive in Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening?

If a player wants to, they can import their "Dead Warden" into
Awakening and play as them. For the story it's assumed that they didn't
make the ultimate sacrifice, instead somehow survived. A player would
start as the same level with the same gear as their "Dead Warden".
Essentially, if a player doesn't have a problem hand-waiving the story
in this regard - neither do we.

While they don't come out and say it, I was just assuming that meant the warden took the DR route, but you could be right, they could have used Loghain instead. However, it seems with the focus of Morrigan and the demon/god-baby that she found a way to herself knocked up with the dark-spawn goodness.

Modifié par Rylor Tormtor, 18 février 2010 - 01:27 .

[Bratt1204]

Feraele wrote...

.......... something kind of cryptic that Flemeth says after the flying rescue at the Tower of Ishal

"Consider this repayment for your lives". That always sounded very odd to me, but when you put it in the context of what Morrigan states as she's attempting to convince you to have the DR done "this is why Flemeth sent me with you" or something like that. It was the plan all along.

Which means..this part of the story definitely has bigger repercussions...its an underlying theme..in the background, but still there.

Oh, I believe it is part of a much larger, darker story. 

[ArcanistLibram]

There is no canon. At most, there's a default storyline.

[Barbarossa2010]

Bratt1204 wrote...

I don't think the 'baby' is necessarily going to be demon-baby? Didn't Morrigan specifically say it would not be evil? That's what I recall from the conversation with her. 

More an economy of words than an actual opinion.  

[Feraele]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

There is no canon. At most, there's a default storyline.

No canon thats been officially announced..YET.   But most are assuming its the DR.   I've lately fallen in line with that thinking..although was resisting it before, maybe just cause I have a hard head.

[Mr.Skar]

If BioWare treates the DA canon like the ME canon, it'll be based around the most neutral decisions possible.

[Archereon]

I'm sure bioware could come up with a justification as to why Morrigan gets her baby if the Warden delines the DR.



Seeing as the DR baby is likely to be a monumental character, either a major villain, a plot critical party member, or the PC themselves in DA2...

[Bio Addict]

I don't think there will be a canon.



Reading a lot of the posts it almost seems as if some people are forgetting that there is a third option where the other Grey Warden takes the hit and dies living the PC alive and Morrigan childless. But I think I understand, this thread is an extension of the anger over the whole US issue. In a perfect world people would be able to carry over their decisions and us the new Orlesian Warden as an avatar but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.



This is how I'm thinking Bioware sees it:



If you're alive then you're alive, maybe you utilized the dark ritual or maybe Alistair/Loghain took the hit for you and Awakening will reflect either of those choices. But if you're dead then you're dead and your adventure ended with Origins.

[Maria Caliban]

Bio Addict wrote...

If you're alive then you're alive, maybe you utilized the dark ritual or maybe Alistair/Loghain took the hit for you and Awakening will reflect either of those choices. But if you're dead then you're dead and your adventure ended with Origins.

Pretty much.

I read it as "we didn't want to be bothered with giving the player the option to import their game *and* play as a ne Warden." That's not the same as canon.

[Rylor Tormtor]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Bio Addict wrote...

If you're alive then you're alive, maybe you utilized the dark ritual or maybe Alistair/Loghain took the hit for you and Awakening will reflect either of those choices. But if you're dead then you're dead and your adventure ended with Origins.

Pretty much.

I read it as "we didn't want to be bothered with giving the player the option to import their game *and* play as a ne Warden." That's not the same as canon.

Ah, I see. I saw it was to make sure the DR happened, as it seems like the whole Morrigan thing was a set-up for the sequal, but I have been known to be wrong on more than one occassion.

[_Ermehtar_]

Dockery wrote...
 there has to be SOME canon to the series or else there can be no real sequels with any sense of structure.

I agree. At some point there has to be a canon story of Orgins.. I don't understand the fear many people have for stories to be given a canon. You can still play DA the way you want.

A canon is needed for people making stories taking events after DA:O, be it books,later games or even module makers who want's a "true" lore. There are too may variables in Orgins to simply blur them out, not just the end game desicions.. But what happend in Redcliff,circle of magi,Andrastes ashes,orgin and so on.

You can't possible make a story set in Ferelden during the aftermath of DA;O, without touching many of the variables in Orgins. If a warden survives, and comes out victorious after a showdown with the Archdeamon, it will simpy be to "huge" not to be mentioned. 

Modifié par _Ermehtar_, 18 février 2010 - 04:42 .

[darrenr22]

As one or two people have stated: there is no canon.



Yet.



Whether there will be a canon giving a definitive, Bioware-endorsed storyline for the first game remains to be seen but I think it is likely that a canon storyline will be laid out prior to, or by, Dragon Age 2, for obvious reasons.