66 réponses à ce sujet

[Balek-Vriege]

Canon's purpose has always been to define past chapters of a story to allow for continuity in following chapters/spinnoff products (novels etc.) and bring new players up to speed. With the on set of save game imports from previous installments the "canon" stories will matter less and less as players focus mainly on playing their multiple save imports from previous games. Basically the Mass Effect series and the Dragon Age series allow canon customization unlike previous RPGs. The official canon storylines have morphed into a simple backup storylines and decisions for those who are new players, filling plotholes from unrealistic imports (playing an imported US Warden for example) and for Novels. I think the days of the Fallout Bible dictating what's considered canon are replaced with mainly Wikia sites compiling the different outcomes of certain events based off player decisions.



So in this regard I feel there is no answer to what is officially canon because none of the plotlines are actually official. The focus is on players to decide what is canon and their job is to provide the options. Based on that I assume and hope that importing your dead Warden allows us the option to play as the Orlesian Warden Commander. That way people can use their ultimate sacrifice decision and keep the continuity of their personalized import alive.

[Revya]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

distinguetraces wrote...

Dockery wrote...
there has to be SOME canon to the series or else there can be no real sequels with any sense of structure.

Except that ME2 has just very, very skillfully achieved a sequel that reflects varying choices in the original game while continuing to advance a compelling linear narrative.

In what way? A couple changed models, a quest or 2, and some emails do not meaningful choices make.

So true but atleast it is better than the crapy default choices

[shedevil3001]

sorry balek but if you play as an orlesian warden you cant use your dead warden choices it says that on the site it gives you an automatic background for your new warden

[Bann Duncan]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

distinguetraces wrote...

Dockery wrote...
there has to be SOME canon to the series or else there can be no real sequels with any sense of structure.

Except that ME2 has just very, very skillfully achieved a sequel that reflects varying choices in the original game while continuing to advance a compelling linear narrative.

In what way? A couple changed models, a quest or 2, and some emails do not meaningful choices make.

If you actually pay attention, the effects of ME choices in ME2 are pretty profound. For example, if the council is sacrificed, a number of the council races completely shut down their militaries. There's no way that can be written off as a lack of meaningful impact.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Bann Duncan wrote...

If you actually pay attention, the effects of ME choices in ME2 are pretty profound. For example, if the council is sacrificed, a number of the council races completely shut down their militaries. There's no way that can be written off as a lack of meaningful impact.

Unless you actually consider that those races "shutting down their militaries" has absolutely 0 effect in the game other than a couple bits of dialogue...
The ME2 story carryovers are pretty much completely cosmetic and don't change anything in an actual significant way. ME3 might have actual consequences, but ME2 pretty much doesn't.

Anyways, why is everyone so hung up on canon? There is absolutely no need for a canon storyline to be established, and all choices are equally viable.

[Thalorin1919]

I'm guessing Alistair is the King by himself and did not marry Anora. Which means Loghain is also dead.



I'm only guessing this cause in the Awakening trailer. You see Alistair being crowned by himself, and Anora wasnt there.

[Bann Duncan]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Bann Duncan wrote...

If you actually pay attention, the effects of ME choices in ME2 are pretty profound. For example, if the council is sacrificed, a number of the council races completely shut down their militaries. There's no way that can be written off as a lack of meaningful impact.

Unless you actually consider that those races "shutting down their militaries" has absolutely 0 effect in the game other than a couple bits of dialogue...
The ME2 story carryovers are pretty much completely cosmetic and don't change anything in an actual significant way. ME3 might have actual consequences, but ME2 pretty much doesn't.

My point is that that little bit of dialogue indicates a pretty big impact to come in ME3.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Bann Duncan wrote...

My point is that that little bit of dialogue indicates a pretty big impact to come in ME3.

Theoretically. You never know what BioWare will do in ME3.

Odds are good that these things will all be just as small or cosmetic as they were in ME2.

[Dick Delaware]

Agreed, so far that's been a disappointment with Mass Effect. Yeah, I can make some choices here and there, but who cares if there are almost no consequences. Having choice in an RPG is hollow if the world doesn't react to you. It doesn't leave you invested in the world.



For instance, in Dragon Age, if you side with the Templars, you can't get the mages to help Connor. Likewise, if you're a blood mage, you may have to end up killing both the mages AND the templars, gimping your end army. There are a bunch of other examples, but for the most part, Dragon Age was pretty good at this.



That is legit choice and consequence. That's what good RPG's live off of.

[hardvice]

It would be really, really dumb for them to assume anything other than the ultimate sacrifice ending when a player chooses to play as the Orlesian. Why?

Since you need DA:O to play Awakening, there are going to be next to zero people playing Awakening that haven't played at least a little DA:O. Many or most of the people playing the Orlesian, then, will be players who made the ultimate sacrifice (otherwise, they'd be importing their still-alive warden in most cases).

For those that are just playing the Orlesian to see what his story is like, they probably don't care one way or another what happened.

And even in that case, there's a pretty good reason to assume the ultimate sacrifice ending: it makes little sense, from a story perspective, to bring in an Orlesian to rebuild the Wardens if the Warden hero of the recent blight -- a Fereldanite (we still don't know the demonym for "from Fereldan", do we?) with tons of Darkspawn experience -- is still alive and kicking, as is either Warden!Loghain and/or Alistair.

I doubt BioWare has any real interest in pushing a canon ending. There are far too many players who let Alistair or Loghain bite the bullet, whose stories will be continuing, to make it worth their while to "force" the dark ritual on just those who chose the ultimate sacrifice and those who otherwise chose to start from scratch with the Orlesian. The dark ritual ending doesn't add anything to the Orlesian's story, and in fact creates a pretty awkward plot hole since it leaves at least two Fereldanish (Fereldanian?) wardens alive and well in Fereldan.

Modifié par hardvice, 19 février 2010 - 06:59 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Ferelden = The name of the kingdom.



Fereldan = "from Ferelden"

[Onyx Jaguar]

Stoomkal wrote...

I am sorry...

Does anyone think that... calling a game "Origins" and then giving you all sorts of choices, and backgrounds, and options...

Then ret-conning everything to a single storyline is abit... counter-productive?

I personally doubt they will throw out all this in favor of a set story. If they did it would be a terrible choice.

What is the point of playing a game with choices?

It would be like playing a LOTR game and being able to do things differently... pointless...

I agree

[Rylor Tormtor]

hardvice wrote...

It would be really, really dumb for them to assume anything other than the ultimate sacrifice ending when a player chooses to play as the Orlesian. Why?

Since you need DA:O to play Awakening, there are going to be next to zero people playing Awakening that haven't played at least a little DA:O. Many or most of the people playing the Orlesian, then, will be players who made the ultimate sacrifice (otherwise, they'd be importing their still-alive warden in most cases).

For those that are just playing the Orlesian to see what his story is like, they probably don't care one way or another what happened.

And even in that case, there's a pretty good reason to assume the ultimate sacrifice ending: it makes little sense, from a story perspective, to bring in an Orlesian to rebuild the Wardens if the Warden hero of the recent blight -- a Fereldanite (we still don't know the demonym for "from Fereldan", do we?) with tons of Darkspawn experience -- is still alive and kicking, as is either Warden!Loghain and/or Alistair.

I doubt BioWare has any real interest in pushing a canon ending. There are far too many players who let Alistair or Loghain bite the bullet, whose stories will be continuing, to make it worth their while to "force" the dark ritual on just those who chose the ultimate sacrifice and those who otherwise chose to start from scratch with the Orlesian. The dark ritual ending doesn't add anything to the Orlesian's story, and in fact creates a pretty awkward plot hole since it leaves at least two Fereldanish (Fereldanian?) wardens alive and well in Fereldan.

If the Orlesian Warden was added just for those who did the US, then why doen't the actions that said character made affect the OW's world? I mean, I agree with what you are saying, but apparently, Bioware does not. I hope I am wrong, however.

[Revya]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Bann Duncan wrote...

My point is that that little bit of dialogue indicates a pretty big impact to come in ME3.

Theoretically. You never know what BioWare will do in ME3.

Odds are good that these things will all be just as small or cosmetic as they were in ME2.

I hope not.

[hardvice]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

If the Orlesian Warden was added just for those who did the US, then why doen't the actions that said character made affect the OW's world? I mean, I agree with what you are saying, but apparently, Bioware does not. I hope I am wrong, however.

Yeah, but that's really a separate matter.  Even if they're not importing the dead Warden's choices, they still have to choose a default backstory for those playing the Orlesian.  

Most of the dead Warden's choices won't matter much to the Orlesian, given that you're unlikely to run into those people affected by them.  The big ones -- who is on the throne, how the Archdemon was defeated, how Loghain was handled -- obviously will impact the Orlesian's story.  

In that case, it still doesn't make sense for them to assume anything but the ultimate sacrifice ending, even if they don't view the Orlesian as the character for those who made the ultimate sacrifice, because there's not much point in importing an Orlesian Warden commander if you still have a healthy Warden on hand (as you would with any of the other endings).

My point is not that BioWare will necessarily be using a dead Warden's choices, but that we know absolutely nothing about what backstory they will be using for the Orlesian, and in all likelihood, the default choices are unlikely to be too heinous for many people who made the ultimate sacrifice.

The point has already been made elsewhere, but it's also not necessarily the case that not importing a dead Warden's choices means not honoring those choices.  There are other ways to get that information from the player rather than importing a saved game, from a page with a bunch of drop-down choices before the game starts to an in-game multiple choice quiz like Obsidian used in KOTOR 2 ("What are you talking about?  Revan was a woman!").

[davech1987]

from what i have read whatever choices you make in origins effect awaking eg if you become consort in origins then you are in awaking if alistair is dead in origins then he will not be in awaking etc . also if you do the US you can still import the dead grey warden

Modifié par davech1987, 15 mars 2010 - 11:51 .