538 réponses à ce sujet

[Merchant2006]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I find it slightly amusing that someone with a Miranda's Ass banner is calling the Garrus and Tali romances fanservice, since the cannonical definition of Fanservice is T&A for the purpose of T&A.

I see I touched a nerve eh?  The banner amused me greatly when I saw it, so why not add it to my signature so that after every post I still chuckle to myself? That's logic you see.

[Zeratul20]

Goes well with the "Dat Mass" avatar. Gotta admit that.

[AdmiralCheez]

No offense, Zulu, but after reading all your opinions and suggestions, ME2 would suck pretty hard if you'd been in charge of it, since you seem to advocate a game that would appeal only to your personal tastes and not consider the other people playing it.

[AdmiralCheez]

Merchant2006 wrote...

I see I touched a nerve eh?  The banner amused me greatly when I saw it, so why not add it to my signature so that after every post I still chuckle to myself? That's logic you see.

How is pointing out a spot of irony to same as being pissed about it?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Miranda's whole appearance is fanservice. Renegade Shepard's badass lines are fanservice. Recurring characters are fanservice. Seth Green is fanservice. Lair of the Shadow Broker is fanservice. Punching al'Jilani is fanservice. Paragon kiss interrupt is fanservice.

And all of it is bad, and detracted from ME2, making it super-cheesy. Except for Seth Green, who isn't exactly fan service, but a comic relief.

So you'd prefer the Renegade never say anything badass, and just be grim and racist all the time? Man. I do not want to play your Mass Effect. No offense, I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy it.

And I didn't say Joker, I said Seth Green. Picking an obviously recognizable geek icon to voice a character is fanservice. Actually, now that you mention it, Joker is fanservice, since he was a popular character from the first game who returned with an increased role in the second due to  his popularity. Huh. Neat!

[CulturalGeekGirl]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Merchant2006 wrote...

I see I touched a nerve eh? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]
The banner amused me greatly when I saw it, so why not add it to my
signature so that after every post I still chuckle to myself? That's
logic you see.

How is pointing out a spot of irony to same as being pissed about it?

Nerve = funnybone maybe?

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 21 avril 2011 - 12:02 .

[Mafiaman32693]

Their whole inclusion as squad members in the second game was for fan service. Notice how neither of them have more than 2-3 conversations with you on the Normandy other than to initiate and conclude their loyalty missions and flirt with you. As much as I like Garrus, I don't like how he was shoe-horned into ME2 just to appease fans. I don't feel like I learned one thing about him that I didn't already know from chatting with him in ME1.

[Chewin]

Yes, but he said something that you'll never forget

Need a hint? It starts with "C..."

Modifié par Chewin3, 21 avril 2011 - 12:01 .

[Someone With Mass]

Mafiaman32693 wrote...

Their whole inclusion as squad members in the second game was for fan service. Notice how neither of them have more than 2-3 conversations with you on the Normandy other than to initiate and conclude their loyalty missions and flirt with you. As much as I like Garrus, I don't like how he was shoe-horned into ME2 just to appease fans. I don't feel like I learned one thing about him that I didn't already know from chatting with him in ME1.

I can't recall any conversations with him in ME1 about his band of vigilantes on Omega.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Mafiaman32693 wrote...

Their whole inclusion as squad members in the second game was for fan service. Notice how neither of them have more than 2-3 conversations with you on the Normandy other than to initiate and conclude their loyalty missions and flirt with you. As much as I like Garrus, I don't like how he was shoe-horned into ME2 just to appease fans. I don't feel like I learned one thing about him that I didn't already know from chatting with him in ME1.

To a point I agree with this.

[Merchant2006]

Glad to see I'm making everyone happy here.

Zeratul20 wrote...

Goes well with the "Dat Mass" avatar. Gotta admit that.

Thank you.

*Clears throat*

Right, well seeing how I literally made Garruslovers and talimancers cry and rage at me, I'd say my job here was done? No? No it's not done, it never is.

Alright alright! I'll stop.

The only irk I had is that tal-

*Slaps his own face to stop grin appearing*

- that Tali and Garrus do seem like interesting choices for romance but inevitably it is indeed a major, major fanservice. And it's the result of it all that really gets to me. Garrus just.. well, they didn't seem to have as much dialogue as they did in Mass Effect, whereby you really could have a full on conversation about many topics between characters. ME2 just seemed to push that away and sort of shoehorned some characters and the only way you could speak to the characters more was only by romancing them. I certainly did not like that aspect to it.

Edit: Ninja'd! Mafiaman beat me to it.

Modifié par Merchant2006, 21 avril 2011 - 12:03 .

[Leonia]

Mafiaman32693 wrote...

Their whole inclusion as squad members in the second game was for fan service. Notice how neither of them have more than 2-3 conversations with you on the Normandy other than to initiate and conclude their loyalty missions and flirt with you. As much as I like Garrus, I don't like how he was shoe-horned into ME2 just to appease fans. I don't feel like I learned one thing about him that I didn't already know from chatting with him in ME1.

Are you kidding? Garrus and Tali both received a substantial amount of character development between the two games, they've both grown a great deal because of that extra "fanservice". Tali got all those extra cameos early on in the game even and helped the player understand why the quarians were so mistrustful of Cerberus. Garrus, pending on decisions in ME1, was about to be (or probably was) a Spectre. But I guess it's all just fanservice, right? Why should we get three-dimensional characters who get the opportunity to be an important part of Shepard's life for more than one game.

I'm sure both characters still have a significant role to play in ME3, whether as LIs or otherwise. If the fans love them a lot, that's a bonus. But they aren't around just because of fanservice alone.

Lots of characters in ME2 didn't get enough dialogue time.. it's part of having a cast of 13 squad-mates. I can think of a few others on the team who were just there for fanservice and added nothing of extra value to the plot (Thane, Zaeed, Kasumi, Samara, Grunt, etc.). But let's not mention them, no they couldn't be fanservice characters at all, right?

Modifié par leonia42, 21 avril 2011 - 12:10 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I'm actually not upset because I'm a fan of any character. I'm annoyed when people don't know the definition of common internet terms: fanservice, retcon, plot hole, reboot, cameo, variables.

People, it is not that hard to look these things up! 

/wanders off mumbling something Usenet, and getting kids off her lawn.

[AdmiralCheez]

Mafiaman32693 wrote...

Their whole inclusion as squad members in the second game was for fan service. Notice how neither of them have more than 2-3 conversations with you on the Normandy other than to initiate and conclude their loyalty missions and flirt with you. As much as I like Garrus, I don't like how he was shoe-horned into ME2 just to appease fans. I don't feel like I learned one thing about him that I didn't already know from chatting with him in ME1.

Really?  I learned that...

1. When he finally pursued the things he wanted to do with his life, he realized he didn't fit in.

2. He deeply cares about the people he works with, something that was not metioned in ME1.

3. He is a lot more capable as a leader, combatant, and tactician than was hinted in ME1.

4. When something truly awful in his life happens, he will often joke about it to cover his pain, but will privately and obsessively brood over it, to the point where he will seek especially violent action.

5. He's really scary when he's angry.

6. He has reach.

[Leonia]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm actually not upset because I'm a fan of any character. I'm annoyed when people don't know the definition of common internet terms: fanservice, retcon, plot hole, reboot, cameo, variables.

People, it is not that hard to look these things up! 

/wanders off mumbling something Usenet, and getting kids off her lawn.

I hear ya, CGG, but people can only be educated if they want to be educated. My biggest pet-peeve is the liberal useage of plot-hole.

[Legbiter]

Yes.

At least Garrus is.

[AdmiralCheez]

Merchant2006 wrote...

- that Tali and Garrus do seem like interesting choices for romance but inevitably it is indeed a major, major fanservice. And it's the result of it all that really gets to me. Garrus just.. well, they didn't seem to have as much dialogue as they did in Mass Effect, whereby you really could have a full on conversation about many topics between characters. ME2 just seemed to push that away and sort of shoehorned some characters and the only way you could speak to the characters more was only by romancing them. I certainly did not like that aspect to it..

This was a problem for everybody in ME2.

"There's a lot to do, Shepard, maybe another time."
"Already?  I'm not big on forcing these talks."
"I'm not interested in joining your little girl club, Shepard."
"I would like to reflect on our previous conversation."
"I have to clean the engines."
"CALIBRATIONS!!!!"

Meanwhile, Grunt prefers the tank, Samara is meditating, Legion is building consensus, and Mordin is getting into epic shenanigans in his lab.

I think Bioware underestimated how much people would talk to certain characters...

[Leonia]

I can't figure out how Tali isn't fanservice but Garrus is. What am I missing?

[AdmiralCheez]

leonia42 wrote...

I can't figure out how Tali isn't fanservice but Garrus is. What am I missing?

Men.

[Zeratul20]

Have I mentioned how awesome you are, Cheez? Have I?

Modifié par Zeratul20, 21 avril 2011 - 12:21 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Legbiter wrote...

Yes.

At least Garrus is.

Garrus as a character isn't fanservice, but his romance literally is. According to Casey Hudson, Garrus was never meant to be a love interest, but the unexpected fan reception forced BioWare to change direction and make him a fully fledged love interest for ME2. Compare this with Thane, Kaidan and perhaps Jacob -- especially Thane, who was apparently written with romance in mind to begin with (thus making his romance fanservice in a different way).

Casey also said Tali was originally written as a love interest in ME1, but that was subsequently changed since the writers thought "no one would like a girl with chicken feet" or something along those lines. Later, they realized they were wrong and redid their mistake for ME2.

I wish I could the interview where Casey talked about the romances; it was one of his numerous interviews prior to ME2's launch. Ultimately, though, every romance is fanservice in one form or another. Some just are more obvious than others.

[Eudaemonium]

leonia42 wrote...

I can't figure out how Tali isn't fanservice but Garrus is. What am I missing?

I'm trying to figure that out, as well. Hopefully some enlightened being can... well, enlighten me.


That aside, one thing I disliked about ME2 (and ME1 to a lesser degree) was that the amount of dialogue with a romancable character was drastically cut if you didn't romance them. Garrus only has 3 dialogues unless you're femshep and romance him, which was a bit of a drag. That said, I mainly had this problem with Jack. I found the non-romancable characters to be more interesting 90% of the time, simply due to them getting more basic exposition. This was especially noticable when it involves characters that you recruit at the start of the game. If Garrus had been recruited post-Horizon I think his lack of dialogues wouldn't have been as glaring obvious.

Heck, I think Legion gets more dialogues than Garrus and you recruit him at the end of the game.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 21 avril 2011 - 12:23 .

[Someone With Mass]

I've noticed that people are using the word "fanservice" in such a negative tone sometimes.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Eudaemonium wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I can't figure out how Tali isn't fanservice but Garrus is. What am I missing?

I'm trying to figure that out, as well. Hopefully some enlightened being can... well, enlighten me.


That aside, one thing I disliked about ME2 (and ME1 to a lesser degree) was that the amount of dialogue with a romancable character was drastically cut if you didn't romance them. Garrus only has 3 dialogues unless you're femshep and romance him, which was a bit of a drag. That said, I mainly had this problem with Jack. I found the non-romancable characters to be more interesting 90% of the time, simply due to them getting more basic exposition. This was especially noticable when it involves characters that you recruit at the start of the game. If Garrus had been recruited post-Horizon I think his lack of dialogues wouldn't have been as glaring obvious.

Heck, I think Legion gets more dialogues than Garrus and you recruit him at the end of the game.

Yes, this was annoying.

Garrus lured me into romancing him with the promise of more dialogues. If there had been an equal number of non-romance dialogues, Kaidan wouldn't be crying into his chocolate milk right now.