538 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Is it wrong to recruit the quarian that helped the engineers on your first ship again for some reason?

And when someone argues that Tali and Garrus are a waste of space, I can say the same thing about half of the ME2 crew.

[Leonia]

Tali is often referred to as one of the leading experts on geth technology, that makes her extremely useful to the team. She's there more for her knowledge than for her muscle.

[MajesticJazz]

leonia42 wrote...

@MajesticJazz: I think my Shepard would have refused to cooperate at all if she couldn't have at least one trusworthy team-mate on her team. As for Bioware not planning it.. I'd like to see proof of that.

See what you're doing is finding an excuse to make up for the fact that Tali/Garrus in ME2 DOES indeed break of the flow of the theme by having to deal with a team of people that cannot be trusted.

Having Tali/Garrus in there sort of ruins the effect. Besides, you already have Joker and Chakwas....

As for your proof, I'm looking for it now. I remember reading multiple times where Bioware said that they brought back Garrus/Tali in ME2 because they wanted the fans to romance them. This implies that had the fans not cared to romance them, Bioware would have went in an entirely different direction and we would have had two different teammates besides Garrus/Tali.

[Zulu_DFA]

Avissel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Charles Darwin would like a word with Captain Kirk.

So...your arguemnt is that the theory of evolution means humans would never be attracted to none humans?

Or purely from the concept of "I cant produce off spring with this, so I must not do the freak nasty with it." ?

Ethier way, the real world proves both of those ideas to be false.

And still, a space hamster is a more probable candidate for sex than an alien cyborg.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 avril 2011 - 04:25 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Naltair wrote...

Freedom's Progress: Hardly a rescue you pretty much work together and then she tends to the wounded while you take out the Mech.

Given how helpless she is in that mission, and how you're pretty much racing forward to save her team (and her) from the big nasty robot... it is rather an underselling of 'action girl' she's supposed to be.

Haelstrom: Is a rescue mission but she helps you along the way and the mission was already known to be highly dangerous to begin with.

So what about the 'but'? In ME1, when she was in trouble she was fighting: on Haelstrom, she's holed up in a bunker. That's quite a re-selling of her character, and not for the better.

The Trial: You assist Tali in clearing her name, or not, and she fights alongside you every step of the way. Being her "captain" your word has a ton of weight on the outcome but she isn't just some damsel.

'Damsel' is pretty much what she is when she relies nearly entirely on Shepard's advocacy to make her case, and will go meekly along with whatever you choose.

In ME1, Tali argued with Shepard. In ME2, not only did her tone change (Geth politics), but she lost that will.

[Avissel]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And still, a space hamster is a more probable cadidate for sex than an alien cyborg.

What do you base this statment on?

[CroGamer002]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

In ME1, Tali argued with Shepard. In ME2, not only did her tone change (Geth politics), but she lost that will.

Side with Legion, give evidence to Admirals, say to her that taking Quarian homeworld back is bad idea.

I'm pretty sure her tome changes, loud.

[CroGamer002]

Avissel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And still, a space hamster is a more probable cadidate for sex than an alien cyborg.

What do you base this statment on?

On the drugs he's smoking.




No for real, many of his posts are batsh*t insane.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mesina2 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

In ME1, Tali argued with Shepard. In ME2, not only did her tone change (Geth politics), but she lost that will.

Side with Legion, give evidence to Admirals, say to her that taking Quarian homeworld back is bad idea.

I'm pretty sure her tome changes, loud.

Messina, if your case that 'hey, you can still go against their entire moral code with a personal betrayal' is equivalent to 'they would ferverently argue about differences of politics', that's a rather large spectrum to blur.

[Someone With Mass]

MajesticJazz wrote...

See what you're doing is finding an excuse to make up for the fact that Tali/Garrus in ME2 DOES indeed break of the flow of the theme by having to deal with a team of people that cannot be trusted.

Having Tali/Garrus in there sort of ruins the effect. Besides, you already have Joker and Chakwas....

As for your proof, I'm looking for it now. I remember reading multiple times where Bioware said that they brought back Garrus/Tali in ME2 because they wanted the fans to romance them. This implies that had the fans not cared to romance them, Bioware would have went in an entirely different direction and we would have had two different teammates besides Garrus/Tali.

I really fail to see how letting Shepard feel comfortable by working with several companions he knows from his past while breaking the feeling that he's all alone in this is a bad thing.

[Zulu_DFA]

Avissel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And still, a space hamster is a more probable candidate for sex than an alien cyborg.

What do you base this statment on?

I hate to sound smug, but, since you ask...

Education.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 avril 2011 - 04:25 .

[CroGamer002]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Avissel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And still, a space hamster is a more probable cadidate for sex than an alien cyborg.

What do you base this statment on?

I hate to sound smug, but, since you ask...

Education.

I don't want to know where you get your "education".

[Leonia]

We don't need no.. education..

Ok.. I should go.

[Avissel]

...Education?

Your school offered a course on "Things people will be attracted to."?

Honestly man your not even trying now.

You are reaching down to ManGiraffeDog levels now. You can do better.

Modifié par Avissel, 21 avril 2011 - 04:27 .

[Eudaemonium]

Someone With Mass wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

See what you're doing is finding an excuse to make up for the fact that Tali/Garrus in ME2 DOES indeed break of the flow of the theme by having to deal with a team of people that cannot be trusted.

Having Tali/Garrus in there sort of ruins the effect. Besides, you already have Joker and Chakwas....

As for your proof, I'm looking for it now. I remember reading multiple times where Bioware said that they brought back Garrus/Tali in ME2 because they wanted the fans to romance them. This implies that had the fans not cared to romance them, Bioware would have went in an entirely different direction and we would have had two different teammates besides Garrus/Tali.

I really fail to see how letting Shepard feel comfortable by working with several companions he knows from his past while breaking the feeling that he's all alone in this is a bad thing.

Personally, I found the inclusion of Chakwas and Joker far more immersion breaking than Tali and Garrus, particularly Chakwas. I've played through the game several times and I still can't really work out why she is in it.

I came to ME roughly when ME2 came out, I take it she was popular? (Honest question)

[Eudaemonium]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I hate to sound smug, but, since you ask...

Education.

Okay, Zulu. I'm usually just willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have very strong opinions on exactly where ME should ahve gone as a franchise. But this, this is just lazy.

[Someone With Mass]

Eudaemonium wrote...

Personally, I found the inclusion of Chakwas and Joker far more immersion breaking than Tali and Garrus, particularly Chakwas. I've played through the game several times and I still can't really work out why she is in it.

I came to ME roughly when ME2 came out, I take it she was popular? (Honest question)

I have no idea. 

I thought she was okay in ME1.

[Zulu_DFA]

Avissel wrote...

...Education?

Your school offered a course on "Things people will be attracted to."?

Honestly man your not even trying now.

You are reaching down to ManGiraffeDog levels now. You can do better.

Maybe so. Because the talimance is a "ManGiraffeDog" kind of thing.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 avril 2011 - 04:50 .

[Avissel]

Eudaemonium wrote...

Personally, I found the inclusion of Chakwas and Joker far more immersion breaking than Tali and Garrus, particularly Chakwas. I've played through the game several times and I still can't really work out why she is in it.

I came to ME roughly when ME2 came out, I take it she was popular? (Honest question)

I'm not sure about her popularity, but one way to look at is that Cerberus wanted Shepard co-operation, so they need him/her to feel comfortable on the ship. So they tried to gather people you were familiar with for the ships more important roles, piloting and medical attention. Plus Chakwas and Joker both state they were very unhappy with thier postions after the Alliance broke up Shepards crew.

The only other notable crew member were Prestly, who was dead, and the Chef Engineer, who didnt really play much of a role in ME1.

[Leonia]

I always found Chakwas confusing especially since it would make sense for Mordin to be the lead doctor on the Normandy (maybe he's just too busy with his experiments to be a regular doctor though?). I like Chakwas and all but she always did stand out a bit.

Anyway Chakwas and Joker aren't exactly close to Shepard, she's worked with them before sure and probably trusts them but it's not the same kind of trust Shepard has regarding Garrus or Tali (who have fought at her side on numerous occasions). 

Modifié par leonia42, 21 avril 2011 - 04:41 .

[Merchant2006]

Mesina2 wrote...

I don't want to know where you get your "education".

Br0ski ya shud noe he lernt it 4m me! I can speek well so I tawt him. I deed it.

[upsettingshorts]

Look at it from the Illusive Man's perspective. He probably hadn't really considered Tali until she assisted you on Freedom's Progress, and he didn't even know Garrus was Archangel, just that the guy was some kind of vigilante badass.

[Dean_the_Young]

On the other hand, Joker does qualify for 'best of the best': sure, he was pumping himself up about that, but he certainly did graduate top of his class. As far as pilots go, Joker does make sense, and a lot of it. Joker's inclusion from the ME1 crew actually makes sense. He already had that sort of qualification.

It's the rest of the crew that doesn't really fit the mark. Chakwas was just a doctor, and not even a particularly important one to the cast. Having ye-old semi-racist XO Presley on the ship as a familiar face would actually be sort of expected on a Cerberus crew.

Garrus you could sort of understand as being considered 'best of the best', seeing as he qualified (but did not take) preliminary Spectre training, but Cerberus didn't set out to recruit Garrus: it went out for ArchAngel, which makes far less sense given that ArchAngel was a guy running ambushes against surprised mercs on Omega for under two years. Not much of a resume or history.

But it's really Tali who doesn't make much sense for a 'best of the best' category: she was never implied as being so in ME1, and doesn't exactly demonstrate any such superb skill in ME2, where it's supposed to matter. In ME1 she got Pilgrimage Training: not even actual military training, but enough to take care of herself. And she was legitimately good at being a mechanic. But best of the best? As a specialist? In ME2, her appearances never underscored such a theme, and the only word we have that she's 'best of the best' is that, well, she's in the same group of a bunch of people with that reputation. Which is like saying that if you hang out with football players, you must be a good football player.

[Maria Caliban]

Mass Effect is fan service.

"Hello, my name is Commander Shepard, and I'm the biggest bad ass in the galaxy!"

[Babli]

I have 7 Shepards. And only LI´s I have from ME 2 are Garrus and Tali. Rest are ME 1 romances and one "Iamstillwaitingforchakwasromance" Shepard.

Miranda, Thane, Jack and Jacob felt more like fanservice to me, so I didnt romanced them.

And I am serious, Chakwas LI for ME3!