538 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Honestly I haven't seen Jacob called whiny very often. Mostly it's just that people feel like their Femshep acts oddly around him, so they avoid it more to avoid having their Femshep feel like a creeper.

That and the priiiiize. Sorry... couldn't help it.

[Seboist]

mrsph wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...
Yeah, and people got pissing over that and started moaning over how Jacob was the worst romance ever. 

He showed free will. When every character is supposed to bend their will before the mighty Shepard.

This is unforgiveable and makes him whiny.

That's why I loved the Morrigan romance in DA:O (best Bioware romance) and why I want Aria T'Loak as a LI in ME3.

[jellobell]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Honestly I haven't seen Jacob called whiny very often. Mostly it's just that people feel like their Femshep acts oddly around him, so they avoid it more to avoid having their Femshep feel like a creeper.

This. I like Jacob, I just don't like his romance, and  guarantee I would've liked it a whole lot more if my Shepard hadn't been giving him bedroom eyes from the very first conversation. It was way too creepy.

Modifié par jellobell, 24 avril 2011 - 01:02 .

[Nashiktal]

mrsph wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Honestly I haven't seen Jacob called whiny very often..

Whiny is the catch all phrase for "I hate this character but won't explain in a coherent fashion why"

Like retcon usually means "I hate the direction the story is going but will use the wrong word"

edit: Amusingly, as you pointed out, Jacob is hated on for not whining enough. You just can't win

To be fair there ARE a few retcons in the game. Whether they warrant any whining is up to the individual, but they are there.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I honestly haven't ever seen any evidence of any major retcons in Mass Effect, but we should NOT turn this thread into that thread. EVERY OTHER THREAD IS THAT THREAD.

Back on topic, I'm also still not willing to admit that "Hey, one thing in my life isn't an unmitigated disaster" is an expression of perfect, life-saving love.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 24 avril 2011 - 01:11 .

[Seboist]

jellobell wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Honestly I haven't seen Jacob called whiny very often. Mostly it's just that people feel like their Femshep acts oddly around him, so they avoid it more to avoid having their Femshep feel like a creeper.

This. I like Jacob, I just don't like his romance, and  guarantee I would've liked it a whole lot more if my Shepard hadn't been giving him bedroom eyes from the very first conversation. It was way too creepy.

Femshep was dead for two years and just came back to life. She's clearly in need of some man meat.

[MajesticJazz]

I never understood why people didn't like Female Shepard being sexually aggressive towards Jacob in ME2.

I bet if she was acting like that towards Thane or Garrus nobody would complain but because it is Jacob....

[Nashiktal]

Seboist wrote...

jellobell wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Honestly I haven't seen Jacob called whiny very often. Mostly it's just that people feel like their Femshep acts oddly around him, so they avoid it more to avoid having their Femshep feel like a creeper.

This. I like Jacob, I just don't like his romance, and  guarantee I would've liked it a whole lot more if my Shepard hadn't been giving him bedroom eyes from the very first conversation. It was way too creepy.

Femshep was dead for two years and just came back to life. She's clearly in need of some man meat.

Technically, at least from her point of view, it hasn't been two years. She went straight from falling to the planet, to fighting for her life on that space station.

[didymos1120]

MajesticJazz wrote...

I never understood why people didn't like Female Shepard being sexually aggressive towards Jacob in ME2.

I bet if she was acting like that towards Thane or Garrus nobody would complain but because it is Jacob....

MajesticJazz: Internet Psychoanalyst.

[upsettingshorts]

MajesticJazz wrote...

I never understood why people didn't like Female Shepard being sexually aggressive towards Jacob in ME2.

I'm going to venture a guess and wager that a large part of it was Jennifer Hale's "phone sex operator" delivery.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

MajesticJazz wrote...

I never understood why people didn't like Female Shepard being sexually aggressive towards Jacob in ME2.

I bet if she was acting like that towards Thane or Garrus nobody would complain but because it is Jacob....

Actually, no. I would not have gotten into a romance with either of them if they'd all had the same dialogue. I would have stayed faithful to Kaidan like I friggin PLANNED.

I'm also not saying that Shep's chats with Jacob are out of character for ALL versions of Shepard. Clearly there are some Shepards who feel like that's exactly what they would do. For them, the relationship works. For me, it felt like Arrival - there was no way to make my Shepard's personality shine through, so I abandoned the content to people who would find it more suitable to their particular character. No harm, no foul.

There's also a difference between being in control or assertive and being... I don't even know what to call it. Like, when I was teasing Kaidan in ME1 and pushing things foreword, it felt natural to me. My dialogue with Jacob just... didn't. I actually liked him a lot more after I was paired up with someone else - he became the friendly bro who I liked, rather than this guy I was hitting on against my will. Weirdly, I can see myself romancing that version of Jacob, the one who is all brofists and "let's go get drunk, yeah!" 

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 24 avril 2011 - 01:18 .

[Seboist]

Nashiktal wrote...

Seboist wrote...

jellobell wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Honestly I haven't seen Jacob called whiny very often. Mostly it's just that people feel like their Femshep acts oddly around him, so they avoid it more to avoid having their Femshep feel like a creeper.

This. I like Jacob, I just don't like his romance, and  guarantee I would've liked it a whole lot more if my Shepard hadn't been giving him bedroom eyes from the very first conversation. It was way too creepy.

Femshep was dead for two years and just came back to life. She's clearly in need of some man meat.

Technically, at least from her point of view, it hasn't been two years. She went straight from falling to the planet, to fighting for her life on that space station.

Even then it could have been a while since she's gotten some before the Collector ship attack. A woman has NEEDS bro and Jacob's abs of steel can fulfill it.

[didymos1120]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

I never understood why people didn't like Female Shepard being sexually aggressive towards Jacob in ME2.

I'm going to venture a guess and wager that a large part of it was Jennifer Hale's "phone sex operator" delivery.

No, it's because they didn't get to choose what their own character does.  The "woman in heat" line reading was just a "bonus".

[MajesticJazz]

Or maybe it is an innate sexist attitude (even from women) that a female cannot be sexually aggressive with or just be sexually liberated in general.

Example:

I as a male can have multiple sex partners within a time period and for the most part, my actions are seen as masculine. However let a female have multiple sex partners within the same time period and she is suddenly a [insert your favorite derogatory term for women who like lots of sex].

If Male Shepard approached Ashley, Liara, Tali, Miranda, or even Jack in obviously sexual overtones then people for the most part wouldn't complain. However let female shepard let her hair down for a moment and now she is "too aggressive" and not "ladylike".

Modifié par MajesticJazz, 24 avril 2011 - 01:37 .

[upsettingshorts]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Or maybe it is an innate sexist attitude (even from women) that a female cannot be sexually aggressive with or just be sexually liberated in general.

Nah.

[Ryzaki]

Or it could just be no one wanting their character to be sexually aggressive without their permission.

That's most of the complaints I've seen.

[AngelicMachinery]

Ryzaki wrote...

Or it could just be no one wanting their character to be sexually aggressive without their permission.

That's most of the complaints I've seen.

This,  my Shepherd likes blue alien girls,  I don't want to flirt with any icky boys. 

[didymos1120]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Or maybe it is an innate sexist attitude (even from women) that a female cannot be sexually aggressive with or just be sexually liberated in general.

OK, look: enough with the armchair psychoanalysis.  You're terrible at it.  People as a rule don't want their character to do just do stuff.  And they especially want the romance stuff under their control.  You should really stop trying to tell people why they didn't like something right after they tell you exactly why they didn't like it.  It's obnoxious.

[MajesticJazz]

mrsph wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

Or maybe it is an innate sexist attitude (even from women) that a female cannot be sexually aggressive with or just be sexually liberated in general.

Example:

I as a male can have multiple sex partners within a time period and for the most part, my actions are seen as masculine. However let a female have multiple sex partners within the same time period and she is suddenly a [insert your favorite derogatory term for women who like lots of sex].

If Male Shepard approached Ashley, Liara, Tali, Miranda, or even Jack in obviously sexual overtones then people for the most part wouldn't complain. However let female shepard let her hair down for a moment and now she is "too aggressive" and not "ladylike".

No, man.

I never said I'm right, just that it is my opinion and one that I'm strongly standing by.

In general society women are viewed differently when they approach sex the same way men do and that sort of perception translates into Mass Effect.

If Male Shepard approached Miranda in a "phone sex voice" then I truely do believe that we wouldn't get as much complaints from gamers saying "I didn't like the way my Shepard talked to Miranda like he wanted to slap her on the ass! It was so nasty and unclassy!"

But because it is a female talking to a man in a sexually aggressive way, it is nasty and not classy.

[upsettingshorts]

MajesticJazz wrote...

I never said I'm right, just that it is my opinion and one that I'm strongly standing by.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.