538 réponses à ce sujet

[Madecologist]

I didn't see Tali as far fetch. If you like fully chat her up and do her sidequest. Her final dialogue is about how much of a good friend you are and she will stay with you even after Saren is beaten and not go back to the Migrant Fleet right away even if she is holding the Pilgrimage Present in her hand right there and then. With all that jazz about being there, and you were kind to her and all that stuff.

Yes it is not a romance, but quite a strong sentimentship of deep friendship forming.

Honestly, if you gonna start picking romances apart, none of them makes sense. None of them. Both ME1 and 2.

Modifié par Madecologist, 18 février 2010 - 05:37 .

[bjdbwea]

Absolutely, and the romances do feel forced as a result. I have no problem with fan service though. Only wish the fans of other ME 1 companions wouldn't have been left with... well, virtually nothing.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 18 février 2010 - 05:41 .

[ERJAK2]

Borschtbeet wrote...

I think they both seemed a bit far fetched.  Tali didn't show any romantic interest in Shepard at all in Mass Effect 1 and all of the sudden she falls in love with him in Mass Effect 2?  So much so that she's willing to risk her life scrogging him?
Also, Turians are probably the least looking humanoid aliens in the galaxy yet he and Shepard agree to scrog?

I have nothing against these romances being included as fan service of course.  I just have trouble taking them seriously.

Not fanservice enough. Tali needed to be Bi

[Madecologist]

bjdbwea wrote...

Absolutely, and the romances do feel forced as a result. I have no problem with fan service though. Only wish the fans of other ME 1 companions wouldn't have been left with... well, virtually nothing.

There I agree. I understand their 3 act model thing, and I think they wanted to do the whole shakey waters, complicated, relationship in trouble thing. Alright, you want to make ME1 LI loyalist squirm. Fine, slap them around with the story. But do slap them around, not have a cardboard cutout saying "you are slapped around".

Show me, make me feel things with Liara are tense, make the tension acknowledged. Make me maul it a little. Don't give such a small sliver and then when I am like wha? Have either a, the character email you! Like WTH... email you? That is epic. Or.. well nothing. The only real proof this is part of a larger plan and this was to mess with me is Casey Hudson whispering in my ear (not literally of course), "troubled romance...."

Sure I see the troubled romance in game, I understand it will not be a main focus of the game, but if I were to get up to get a glass of water and my brother touched the controller I might missed the whole thing.

Modifié par Madecologist, 18 février 2010 - 05:55 .

[InHarmsWay]

smudboy wrote...

Borschtbeet wrote...

I think they both seemed a bit far fetched.  Tali didn't show any romantic interest in Shepard at all in Mass Effect 1 and all of the sudden she falls in love with him in Mass Effect 2?  So much so that she's willing to risk her life scrogging him?
Also, Turians are probably the least looking humanoid aliens in the galaxy yet he and Shepard agree to scrog?

I have nothing against these romances being included as fan service of course.  I just have trouble taking them seriously.

Tali:
1. As we learn in ME2, to Tali, Shepard was the savior of the galaxy.
2. She was his friend and comrade in saving that galaxy.
3. Shepard saved her life from Fist and his henchmen.
4. She's a tech head, and gave Tali the opportunity to be on the most advanced ship in the fleet, to save the galaxy, which she completely loves/has issues sleeping with/deals with.
5. (optional) He gave Tali her pilgrimage gift, her "coming of age" journey, which makes Tali an "adult".
6a. (optional) "Tear into the Thorian like a force of nature.  Nothing could slow you down." (ME2)
6b. (optional) "You risked your own life to save the colonists on Feros two years ago.  Nobody else could have saved them" (ME2)
7a. (optional) "I watched your face as Wrex betrayed you.  As you did what you had to." (ME2)
7b. (optional) "I watched your face as Lieutenant Alenko/Chief Williams died on Virmire." (ME2)
8. "I've watched you stand strong against everything the galaxy threw at you.  I've watched you for so long, and I never imagined you'd ever see past this." (ME2)

Nevermind the whole saving Veetor/Reegar/protecting her father/hugging her/not getting her ex-communicated, and potentially helping her getting back her homeworld/building her a house in one of your disucssions.

Now I'm not one for hero worship, but I hear girls like being saved.  Let alone multiple times.  But Tali (and Garrus) are the best examples of continuity of ME1 and ME2.  With Tali, the storytelling is granted a very romantic feeling.  Shepard and Tali even play along, by calling Shepard captain in some scenes, and Shepard calling her "vas Normandy."

Now, yes, you can call this fanservice, but it's not out of the blue.  And it's done helluva right.

I would've liked Shepard to be a bit more romantic as well, but that's just me.

Best reasoning why Tali's romance was not forced.

[Bann Duncan]

Kileyan wrote...

Bann Duncan wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

Yes. Think about it, the only two returning members of Shepard's old crew are the two members that fans have begged to be love interests. I don't think that either were ever really considered options for romance (developers did say that they considered Tali during production, but then again hundreds of things are considered during production that never make it in to the game), but the fans wanted it and BioWare made it work.

Exactly. This is pretty much the reason the whole Talimance fan phenomenon irks me, as I don't much like the idea of BW's final product being changed story-wise to fit what fans want.

Yet, I suspect you would complain anyway if the final product wasn't what you wanted?

I think that is Biowares position, they design the game in part to please fans and hope others feel the same or at least like the game anyway.

Or they don't listen to any fans, purposely not include things that fans want, and still hope that someone likes the game?

Dunno, what would you do as a dev, and how would you convince fans that you did what you wanted to do, even when their decisions did cross paths with fan wishes.

No, actually. I have not complained about BioWare not remaking ME to my vision. I enjoy all of their games that I have played, going back to MDK 2 which was my first as a child and their RPGs as I became older.

Then again, I'm a bit of a purist in this regard and I accept my minority status.

[SmokePants]

The writers definitely embraced the idea of a Tali romance, whereas with Garrus, it's clear that they were mocking that fanbase.

"You want to do what to me, Sheperd?"

"Huh."

"No, no, I'm just trying to imagine how that would work."

"I'm not physically attracted to you in the slightest and you might as well be a male human, but what the Hell. Beats jacking off, I guess."

"I'll bring the booze."

[cocla]

SmokePants wrote...

The writers definitely embraced the idea of a Tali romance, whereas with Garrus, it's clear that they were mocking that fanbase.

"You want to do what to me, Sheperd?"

"Huh."

"No, no, I'm just trying to imagine how that would work."

"I'm not physically attracted to you in the slightest and you might as well be a male human, but what the Hell. Beats jacking off, I guess."

"I'll bring the booze."

I dont think it was that, to me it seemed like it was done to show Garrus' vnerability, especially the last scene/convo.
He is always shown as the cool tough guy, always taking things in stryde or taking action, but in the romance plot you get to see the tole things have taken on him, and as he says he 'just wants one thing to go right'.

[Doug84]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Yes I do believe they were fanservice.

Tali I can understand having some feelings for Shephard, but not that she'd rip her suit off, or that the game-lore would even let her without more than some snivels.

'Snivels'? Whats that?

And as she herself says, if every stray microbe could kill them, the Quarians would have died out long ago. Not BWs fault you assumed any contact with open air == death.

But as for Tali and Garrus being fan service...seriously, Who the hell knows? If they where planning to have them as LI in ME 2, no one would believe them if they said so.

"No seriously, we were"

"Yeah right, FAN SERVICE"

So, in conclusion, maybe, maybe not. Who cares?

[Doug84]

InHarmsWay wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Borschtbeet wrote...

I think they both seemed a bit far fetched.  Tali didn't show any romantic interest in Shepard at all in Mass Effect 1 and all of the sudden she falls in love with him in Mass Effect 2?  So much so that she's willing to risk her life scrogging him?
Also, Turians are probably the least looking humanoid aliens in the galaxy yet he and Shepard agree to scrog?

I have nothing against these romances being included as fan service of course.  I just have trouble taking them seriously.

Tali:
1. As we learn in ME2, to Tali, Shepard was the savior of the galaxy.
2. She was his friend and comrade in saving that galaxy.
3. Shepard saved her life from Fist and his henchmen.
4. She's a tech head, and gave Tali the opportunity to be on the most advanced ship in the fleet, to save the galaxy, which she completely loves/has issues sleeping with/deals with.
5. (optional) He gave Tali her pilgrimage gift, her "coming of age" journey, which makes Tali an "adult".
6a. (optional) "Tear into the Thorian like a force of nature.  Nothing could slow you down." (ME2)
6b. (optional) "You risked your own life to save the colonists on Feros two years ago.  Nobody else could have saved them" (ME2)
7a. (optional) "I watched your face as Wrex betrayed you.  As you did what you had to." (ME2)
7b. (optional) "I watched your face as Lieutenant Alenko/Chief Williams died on Virmire." (ME2)
8. "I've watched you stand strong against everything the galaxy threw at you.  I've watched you for so long, and I never imagined you'd ever see past this." (ME2)

Nevermind the whole saving Veetor/Reegar/protecting her father/hugging her/not getting her ex-communicated, and potentially helping her getting back her homeworld/building her a house in one of your disucssions.

Now I'm not one for hero worship, but I hear girls like being saved.  Let alone multiple times.  But Tali (and Garrus) are the best examples of continuity of ME1 and ME2.  With Tali, the storytelling is granted a very romantic feeling.  Shepard and Tali even play along, by calling Shepard captain in some scenes, and Shepard calling her "vas Normandy."

Now, yes, you can call this fanservice, but it's not out of the blue.  And it's done helluva right.

I would've liked Shepard to be a bit more romantic as well, but that's just me.

Best reasoning why Tali's romance was not forced.

True! So very true.

[SkywardDescent]

Tali was planned as being an LI in the first game, but they cut it. Not sure about Garrus though.

Either way, it is a bit fanservice-y, but I don't see anything too wrong with that.

(please, let it be noted, I like Tali, but as a character, not in a creepy way<_<)

[Llandaryn]

Borschtbeet wrote...

I think they both seemed a bit far fetched.

No more far-fetched than any of the other romances.

[magnuskn]

Well, they may be fan-service, but I don't connotate fan-service as something bad. After all, it's entertainment, you want to do your fans a service.



Also, Talis romance is the best BW game romance since Viconia DeVir.

[Madecologist]

SkywardDescent wrote...

Tali was planned as being an LI in the first game, but they cut it. Not sure about Garrus though.

Either way, it is a bit fanservice-y, but I don't see anything too wrong with that.

(please, let it be noted, I like Tali, but as a character, not in a creepy way<_<)

Oh yeah I read that. There were plans to make her a LI. It is why her Dialogue shows richness too. She was made to be likable and all that. But it was scrapped. It was deemed she was too young and that afterall, she had chicken legs. But they kept the likability and made her become a good friend. Seemed people really liked her and did not give a damn about those chicken legs. SInce ME2 was 2 years later, she also aged. So it become viable again.

Garrus, was not. He still got a good writing (but I think the same is true for Wrex too) though. If you look carefully, every character is "romancable" Really, except for Legion, Zaeed, and Grunt they all have a romance moment. Samara shoots you down but admits it was tempting, Mordin is more of a spoof moment, so the fact we have so many characters that are actually romancable is no suprise. I won't even go into Morinth....

[SL22]

Tali as a LI was not fan service as it was originally meant to be in ME1, Garrus as a LI is pure fan service.

[SL22]

ERJAK2 wrote...

Borschtbeet wrote...

I think they both seemed a bit far fetched.  Tali didn't show any romantic interest in Shepard at all in Mass Effect 1 and all of the sudden she falls in love with him in Mass Effect 2?  So much so that she's willing to risk her life scrogging him?
Also, Turians are probably the least looking humanoid aliens in the galaxy yet he and Shepard agree to scrog?

I have nothing against these romances being included as fan service of course.  I just have trouble taking them seriously.

Not fanservice enough. Tali needed to be Bi

Not happening.

[Cutlass Jack]

magnuskn wrote...

Also, Talis romance is the best BW game romance since Viconia DeVir.

You know something? I absolutely agree with this statement.

[HAGA NAGA]

Fan Sevice!?...........Fan Service?!...........This WHOLE game's Fan Service!!!!!!!!!!

[vigna]

SkywardDescent wrote...

Tali was planned as being an LI in the first game, but they cut it. Not sure about Garrus though.

Either way, it is a bit fanservice-y, but I don't see anything too wrong with that.

(please, let it be noted, I like Tali, but as a character, not in a creepy way<_<)

Hhahaha, I love that everyone  that likes Tali is assumed to have a shrine built to her in their bedroom or something. hah....
"All Tali fans are creepy....etc, etc."
I personally find it amusing.

[Arbalest7]

I've got nothing against the Tali romance I just wish that she could have fallen in love with you in the game rather than having been retconned into having always loved you since ME 1. My main Shep thought of her as a little sister and that totally destroyed our relationship. In that sense I preferred the Garrus romance although I really don't see the appeal, he may be my favorite character in the series and best friend but he's still a humanoid raptor.

[Siansonea]

Nothin' wrong with fan service. I think there are more farfetched things in the game than Tali or Garrus falling for Shepard. I personally don't find there to be anything intrinsically different in a human pairing up with a quarian or turian or asari. Alien is alien. Honestly I could see stuff like this 'really happening' if humans came in contact with aliens they could communicate with.

[Snowraptor]

Borschtbeet wrote...

I think they both seemed a bit far fetched.  Tali didn't show any romantic interest in Shepard at all in Mass Effect 1 and all of the sudden she falls in love with him in Mass Effect 2?  So much so that she's willing to risk her life scrogging him?
Also, Turians are probably the least looking humanoid aliens in the galaxy yet he and Shepard agree to scrog?

I have nothing against these romances being included as fan service of course.  I just have trouble taking them seriously.

Um she tells you why she didnt, she did, but was to afraid and embarresed to tell you, wtf is your problem, are you just jealous miranda isnt getting more attention, please grow up

[Llandaryn]

Siansonea II wrote...

Honestly I could see stuff like this 'really happening' if humans came in contact with aliens they could communicate with.

I like to think the chat-up lines would be better.

[GuardianAngel470]

Taranatar9 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

I don't see why it's farfetched, for Tali at least. Quarians have already been said to be the race closest to human...

Said by whom?  I played ME1 more times than is probably healthy and I don't recall hearing that.

KAinrycKarr is neglecting to mention that Quarian and human DNA is based on completely different chemicals. They are genetically incompatible, but that doesn't mean that there can't be a LI.  Hell, if you go to the bar on Illium the asari matriarch bartender tells you not to eat the quarian/turian food, because it isn't compatible with humans(quarians and turians are based on the same dextro-amino acid dna and are thus much more compatible).  So no, they aren't compatible sexually, but that makes the relationship that much more powerful because instead of it being based on a drive for sex (ahem, Miranda) it is based on compatible personalities, which in my mind is much more realistic.

Just my 2 cents though.

[chubert]

I had no idea that Tali was going to be a LI in the 1st game. But this just supports the fact, even more, on why she is a fan service. If she wasnt added in the 1st because they werent sure and now they added her goes to show that they listend to all the fans asking for her to be a LI. That, in itself, is the definition of a fan service. Its plain and simple, she is a fan service.



Now with saying that, I really dont mind. Tali and Garrus are my 2 favorite characters in this game. Im glad that they were made LI's. They are some of the best LI this game has to offer. My opinion of course.