113 réponses à ce sujet

[CitizenSNlPS]

It seems like to me that all the Paragon choices lead to better things while the Renegade choices are just brutal and most of the time pointless. I realize in the most basic form Paragon is supposed to represent good and Renegade is suppose to represent bad, but I wish it wasn't so black and white. I liked the idea of Renegade being someone who "does the job done no matter the cost," but it doesn't really seem like that's what it is. I mean I tend to play the game as mostly a Paragon with some Renegade interruptions/dialogue when I think it is the better choice, but I don't see how going pure Renegade can benefit the player. Like destroying the Rachni/killing Wrex in ME1 I don't think either of those really benefitted anyone.

I hope in ME3 there are choices that really have huge negative and postive factors on both sides. Seeing as it is going to be the last of Shepard's story I think the choces should be huge. An example would be to choose between:

A: Take down TIM (assuming he is evil) which also involves the destruciton of  innocent human colonies

B: Let TIM go which leads to the destruction of the Flotilla

These might not be the best examples, but I just wanted to show a situation in which there are huge consequences. I'm not trying to insult the current system, nor am I calling for a complete revamp but I would like to see Bioware implement more choices in which Paragon isn't always the better choice.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

In ME1 the Renegade was pragmatic, in ME2 some Renegade choices are more just being an **** and even some of the characters comment on that.

[ZennExile]

They need to go back to action / reaction and stop falling to this retarded good/evil plot trap. ME2 would have been ten million times the experience if Paragon/Renegade wasn't polar extreme good/evil.

[Cutlass Jack]

It's really hard going renegade in ME2. Its mostly acting like an ass just for the sake of being an ass. And you really need to commit to that 'assery' to be able to make all your intimidate challenges.

[Terraneaux]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

In ME1 the Renegade was pragmatic, in ME2 some Renegade choices are more just being an **** and even some of the characters comment on that.

To be honest, both of the philosophies failed at times, even in ME1.  Sometimes the Renegade was just being an ass (like killing the colonists on Feros instead of gassing them) and other times Paragon is just being dangerously naive (like the 'Bring Down the Sky' DLC).

A truly pragmatic character is probably somewhere between the two.

[Esker02]

They might pull a "Oh Harrowmont's a good guy. Chantry for the Dwarves seems like a positive change. How could I go wrong doing these morally correct things?" on chumps that blew the base up.



I hope so, anyway.

[DarthCaine]

In BioWare games, it's always like that (the only exception being the Harrowmont/Bhelen choice and the dwarven chantry)

Looks like BioWare learned nothing from The Witcher

Modifié par DarthCaine, 18 février 2010 - 12:24 .

[Acero Azul]

sometimes the renegade choices are funny

[ZennExile]

Oh and short answer: No. There should be no more good/evil stereotypical hokey BS writing coming out of Bioware. They know better than to force good and evil into polar extreme choices that break down the depth of the story and turn it into Dr Sues

[Landline]

This is why I don't play as a Paragon or Renegade, I just pretend that system doesn't exist and just play however I want.



I don't mind not being able to use the occasional persuade/intimidate like many people.

[TuringPoint]

ZennExile wrote...

They need to go back to action / reaction and stop falling to this retarded good/evil plot trap. ME2 would have been ten million times the experience if Paragon/Renegade wasn't polar extreme good/evil.

Much as I love the game, I kinda agree - even though my premise for feeling that way seems a little different.

I could see this coming with the immediate repercussions of whether we let the council live or die.  They also go over the top a bit with things like killing the Rachni queen.  If I believed doing that was for the greater good, I wouldn't have the mean expression on my face or... yada yada.  I would just do it, maybe turn my head away and walk out.

And there was the scarring in ME2.  Completely pointless.  I thought they had figured out the time for lightside/darkside meters on your face was a finished fad, but I guess not.

And it is.  It's bizarrely overused and usually done in poor taste.

Now, I've never played the Renegade path in ME2, but what options I ended up taking seemed Renegade without being just evil for the most part, at least not without a similar amount of suggestion as was given in ME1 that Renegade Shepard was just a jerk and loved inflicting pain.

There were some really great Renegade choices in ME2, much better than anything I remember in ME1.  Punching some guy in an interrogation, or electrocuting a certain repairman.  I also feel like Shepard has a clearer character and emotional basis for his/her choices...

Modifié par Alocormin, 18 février 2010 - 06:05 .

[st0icr4ven]

What a lot of people don't seem to see with Paragon choices is that they are NOT always simply a "good" choice. Renegade is not always a "bad" choice, actually reading the dialog and listening to the 'toons would tell you this. There are times when you make a "paragon" choice and Shep seems to handle it very aggressively (Afterlife as you first enter is a good example and so is the Freelance hiring).

[Azazel005]

Which "just evil" renegade options are we talking about? I can't really think of any outside the idiotic Samara/Morinth decision... that's a ridiculous moment of hopeless writing.



What else are we talking about here?

[sunovafm]

the system that it should be is like the heritic station if that was not difrent shades of grey instead of black andd white i dont know what was

[Canned Bullets]

They also shouldn't make it where you need a ridiculous amount of paragon/renegade to solve simple disputes between teammates.

[Nightwriter]

I don’t know. In Samara’s recruitment mission I found this mercenary who pretended to be scared and misguided, like she didn’t belong. I softened to her and chose the paragon option of letting her go.



Later I found out I had been played and she was a bloodthirsty merc responsible for a recent murder. I had just let a killer go free.

[CitizenSNlPS]

ZennExile wrote...

They need to go back to action / reaction and stop falling to this retarded good/evil plot trap. ME2 would have been ten million times the experience if Paragon/Renegade wasn't polar extreme good/evil.

Yeah I agree. I like how you can decide how aggressive Shepard can be but when it comes to the really important choices it just seems too obvious to go Paragon. I mean imagine if the choices were much more difficult to make rather than "should I let him live or die?". The way I tend to play is to pick what I think is the most morally right and what is the most beneficial to my team or whoever is involved. And pretty much the Paragon choices tend to be the most ideal choices every time. I do tend to pick Renegade options when I am dealing with a dbag or something but it's just unreasonable to go Renegade all the time (except for the humor...which I admit there are lots of funny Renegade options).

[Sharn01]

I think the flaw was making all persuede checks based on Paragon/Renegade score, and making it progressively harder so that you had to follow only one path for 80%-90% of the game to make them. Many of the Renegade interrupt's where not being a douche, and even some of the dialog was fitting from time to time.



Some of it though just made no sense at all, the paragon choice in a dialog would be "I am not working for Cerberus", and a few conversation's later, the Renegade choice is "I am not working for Cerberus" and the Paragon choice is "Cerberus isn't the enemy".

[CitizenSNlPS]

Nightwriter wrote...

I don’t know. In Samara’s recruitment mission I found this mercenary who pretended to be scared and misguided, like she didn’t belong. I softened to her and chose the paragon option of letting her go.

Later I found out I had been played and she was a bloodthirsty merc responsible for a recent murder. I had just let a killer go free.

Yeah after finding out, I end up killing her every data now. But even then, chances are in ME3 you will find out she got caught or something. And that seems to be irrelevant to the whole story. I'm talking about big choices like the destruction of a planet/society and choosing between teammates with no resolution that is just "everyone wins."

[Jobrill]

I'm playing a Paragon who made a few Renegade choices, and overall I'm not sweating it. I figure it's better than my character does what he thinks is right and let the consequences come out later. Makes the game more interesting.



(And I still maintain killing the Heretics instead of Brainwashing them is technically more Paragonish anyway).

[Jlop985]

I lean towards paragon in my "canon" playthrough, but some of the renegade choices just make sense, especially if there is a fight coming up, and you get a renegade interrupt to turn things to your advantage. I also went renegade towards the merc in Samara's mission, as I just saw her pulling a gun on me.

[sunovafm]

CitizenSNlPS wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I don’t know. In Samara’s recruitment mission I found this mercenary who pretended to be scared and misguided, like she didn’t belong. I softened to her and chose the paragon option of letting her go.

Later I found out I had been played and she was a bloodthirsty merc responsible for a recent murder. I had just let a killer go free.

Yeah after finding out, I end up killing her every data now. But even then, chances are in ME3 you will find out she got caught or something. And that seems to be irrelevant to the whole story. I'm talking about big choices like the destruction of a planet/society and choosing between teammates with no resolution that is just "everyone wins."

oh come on are pure sided players this dumb i admit im mostly pargon but i saw her go for the gun i did what i would have done irl shot her there

if you draw a gun on me i will shoot you if you ask me to give you my gun your not geting it (since my life might need it) that simple

[Andorfiend]

I don't think the Paragon option is always the right choice. Letting Elnora go for example. Or Balak and Charn in BDtS. I think those are clear exmples where the 'renegade' path is the correct or even good choice. Mostly however the Paragon path is about trusting people and cooperating. In a game where a lot of the focus is on (as Shepard put it) 'winning hearts and minds' and building alliances it makes sense that the Paragon path is the more strongly rewarded one.