113 réponses à ce sujet

[Empiro]

In ME2, there were only a handful of meaningful paragon/renegade choices I thought. Zaeed's mission, for example, is one. The other one where you had to choose between saving the colony's spaceport versus residential sector is another.

The rewriting/destroying Geth was a choice, but it really wasn't Paragon/Renegade, same with the collector base. They're nonetheless good, meaningful choices though, and I hope ME3 has more of them.

I hope ME3 has a few "WTF" choices, where they elicit really strong emotions and where it's really not clear what you should do. Example of one would be Saving your LI vs saving 10 other random people.

[this isnt my name]

I want the paragons to loose out, atleast once or twice e.g helping the krogan genophage, results in a huge war, instead of having paragon get the best result and renegade the idiotic ass result.

[UnAffectedFiddle]

Renegade for Talis trial all the way. The whole thign was a ridiculous farce and people needed to be put in their place.

[SidNitzerglobin]

aryon69 wrote...

There is one thing that came out of KotoR 2 that has stuck with me is a line from Kiera about always doing the right thing or always helping others isn't always the best thing to do.  So in that light if you do everything paragon there should be some negative outcomes from that. 

I really liked this, same with the open hand/closed fist dichotomy in JE.

Modifié par SidNitzerglobin, 19 février 2010 - 03:53 .

[Sanlan]

As a note, a Renegade can keep Wrex alive.

[MutantSpleen]

I think what Renegade players really want is to have some of the BIG choices turn out for the best if you picked the Renegade choice. I really don't give a damn about whether I killed or let go Elnora. She is a throw away character and will never be seen again. I love it when people keep quoting that as a Paragon choice that has a bad outcome, because that is the only one in both games! However it's so minor who cares?

[A Blind Bandit]

I don't like that it forces you to choose one side or the other if you want to hold onto everyones loyalty. Makes it impossible to be in the middle.

[CitizenSNlPS]

LuckyIronAxe wrote...

Don’t get me wrong I would still play Paragon, but I would like to see some consequences for my actions of being soft on the galaxy.

Yeah I agree with this completely. There shouldn't always be a "better" choice but instead there should be consequences for both sides when dealing with a major issue. If Bioware implemented this then I think it would make the choices way more meaningful.

[Deztyn]

I haven't done a full renegade playthrough of ME2 yet, but so far it seems a lot more balanced this time around. I never really felt that choosing the renegade options resulted in missing important content or left my Shepard at a great disadvantage. Sure, RenShep isn't the nicest person in the galaxy (That's kind of the point.) but this time around it was a lot more harsh and ruthless to get the job done and a lot less pointlessly psychotic jerk.

[That Guy Raffy]

Paragon options don't always seem like the best ones... Especially in the long run.

Let me explain: In the first game where you saved Wrex, you basically gave the Krogan a fighting chance to help along side you by letting them strengthen their numbers through Wrex's leadership. You could have also done this by keeping the Genophage cure in Mordin's Loyalty mission. Saving the Rachni queen did this as well. (Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellion as some individuals in the galaxy might see it). Also, if you rewrote the Geth during Legion's Loyalty mission, there's an army of Geth that may as well join you. Not only is Shepard setting him/herself up for some resistance from other species, he/she's also going to be seen as Saren 2.0.

Between having a Krogan, Rachni, and Geth army that will be ready for the Reapers, and doing this for the "Good of the Galaxy" (just like Saren), you will come across a lot of resistance from the main Council races. Essentially, all your talks of "building bridges" and "winning hearts and minds" is going to go down the gutter when you have a bunch of the same armies as Saren.

You have an Army of Krogan, Geth, and Rachni... why does this sound familiar?

Not only do you have more than half the galaxy wanting you dead/hate you, the Council may also send another Spectre to find you (just like you did Saren). The only difference between you and Saren in the Council races' eyes is
that you are fighting against the Reapers and not waving a white flag. Full circle. I wonder if that happens, then would the Spectre be Kaiden/Ashley/Liara?..

Modifié par That Guy Raffy, 26 février 2010 - 07:07 .

[Booglarize]

A Blind Bandit wrote...

I don't like that it forces you to choose one side or the other if you want to hold onto everyones loyalty. Makes it impossible to be in the middle.

I don't necessarily mind that. It shouldn't be easy to maintain everyone's loyalty.

What I don't like is not being able to pick certain dialogue options simply because some ethereal meter hasn't filled up to a certain point yet. Much better to simply have a persuasion skill, and to be able to use that in a Paragon/Renegade fashion as you see fit. 

[GodWood]

Lots of the renegade choices made perfect sense though.

• Killing Sidonis.

• Saving the Collector base.

• destroying the cure for the krogan.

• killing Jacob's father.

• Focusing on Sovereign.

• the BDtS DLC.

[GodWood]

That Guy Raffy wrote...
Not only do you have more than half the galaxy wanting you dead/hate you, the Council may also send another Spectre to find you (just like you did Saren). The only difference between you and Saren in the Council races' eyes is
that you are fighting against the Reapers and not waving a white flag. Full circle. I wonder if that happens, then would the Spectre be Kaiden/Ashley/Liara?..

Ash/Kaiden/Liara are simply not Spectre material.
I like your idea but I'd much rather a new chracter to be the spectre that hunts Shepard.

[fanman72]

I actually liked most renegade choices compared to paragon in ME2, with the exception being the big choice at the collector base. In ME1 Renegade = xenophobic ******, in ME2 Renegade = pure badass

[That Guy Raffy]

GodWood wrote...

That Guy Raffy wrote...
Not only do you have more than half the galaxy wanting you dead/hate you, the Council may also send another Spectre to find you (just like you did Saren). The only difference between you and Saren in the Council races' eyes is
that you are fighting against the Reapers and not waving a white flag. Full circle. I wonder if that happens, then would the Spectre be Kaiden/Ashley/Liara?..

Ash/Kaiden/Liara are simply not Spectre material.
I like your idea but I'd much rather a new chracter to be the spectre that hunts Shepard.

That's true about Kaiden/Ash/Liara not being spectre Material;  Maybe...

CONRAD VERNER!!!

[Alratan]

I think part of the issue is how much better the ME2 universe is perceived to be if you performed Paragon options in ME1. In ME1, I think killing/saving the Rachni, focusing on Sovereign/saving the Council and many more options are each morally defensible, for various reasons. At the time, they were each equally Good (or morally grey, anyway) and only varied by whether you were compassionate or ruthless. Come ME2, however, and pretty much all significant Paragon choices you made in ME1 made the universe a better place. Humans aren't hated as much, the Rachni will aid you in the war, etc.

If you focused on Sovereign, for example, it's perfectly plausible that you distracted Sovereign from damaging other things - e.g. the Citadel fleets (not just human fleet) are stronger, or the Citadel itself was less damaged so there were more survivors.

Worse still, in ME2 lots of Renegade options were just randomly cruel and short-sighted, such as insulting your crew mates and encouraging Jack to kill what's-his-face (there were a few options in ME1, like punching the reporter or insulting the Admiral, but they were rarer). Other options just didn't seem to make sense as Paragon/Renegade choices at all, such as rewriting/killing the Heretics (both seems fairly equal, to me), and choosing Morinth/Samara (the first is just evil and probably naive). Paragon/Renegade should be the choice between being the compassionate Good guy who never compromises and the anti-hero Good guy, who makes the hard choices, and sometimes they should have equal but different outcomes, and sometimes some outcomes should be better than others. Having the Paragon outcome always triumph over the Renegade really makes it a less interesting choice from a meta-game perspective, when you always know that one is better.

Modifié par Alratan, 26 février 2010 - 08:39 .

[Zulu_DFA]

So far, 2/3rds through the trilogy nobody got screwed over any choice. Either way, paragon or renegade, you win through just by clicking on something. Even on the "suicide mission" is very hard to lose. Good thing with Morinth, though. A person, silly enough to "romance" her gets the loading screen.

To make it really a ground breaking trilogy of RPGs, where "choices matter", BioWare simply must make victory in ME3 impossible for certain combination of choices from ME1&2, and nearly impossible for some other combination. And easy for some combinations. On average, "canon" if you wish, combination prescribed for "Create new ME3 character" start it must be possible, of course. But having a Rachni queen smiling under "The End" sign or not having it there as "the consequence" is no fun. At all.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 26 février 2010 - 11:19 .

[Poisonedblades]

Mordrin's loyalty mission is a contradiction to this. The paragon option forces you to say that he was a bad person, when in actuality he just responded to data that was given to him. And now some military douchebag comes in with little to no scientific knowledge and tells him he did the wrong thing. It pissed me off that paragon shepard was too retarded to think for himself.

[Thundertactics]

Not always, the first thing that comes to mind is letting that mercenary girl go and finding out later that she was the murderer of the Volus merchant's associate.

Also, for me, destroying the Collector base didn't really seem like the best option. (Hence why I kept it, even with my Paragon Shep)

[That Guy Raffy]

Poisonedblades wrote...

Mordrin's loyalty mission is a contradiction to this. The paragon option forces you to say that he was a bad person, when in actuality he just responded to data that was given to him. And now some military douchebag comes in with little to no scientific knowledge and tells him he did the wrong thing. It pissed me off that paragon shepard was too retarded to think for himself.

Honestly, I think that Bioware is leading us on to think that the Paragon choices are better.  Consider Mass Effect 2: most of the choices we made in ME 1 made it seem like it was the better thing to do in the long run.

[mcvxiii]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

In ME1 the Renegade was pragmatic, in ME2 some Renegade choices are more just being an **** and even some of the characters comment on that.

I disagree with that, in ME1 renegade had  choices that were just being a wanker. In this series I find the renegade choices to be mostly comedic. I have yet to play a game that offered "moral" choices that got the balance right and either option wasn't a caricature of that "morality" with little to no consequences for either action.  

[SuperZombieChow]

That Guy Raffy wrote...

Paragon options don't always seem like the best ones... Especially in the long run.

Let me explain: In the first game where you saved Wrex, you basically gave the Krogan a fighting chance to help along side you by letting them strengthen their numbers through Wrex's leadership. You could have also done this by keeping the Genophage cure in Mordin's Loyalty mission. Saving the Rachni queen did this as well. (Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellion as some individuals in the galaxy might see it). Also, if you rewrote the Geth during Legion's Loyalty mission, there's an army of Geth that may as well join you. Not only is Shepard setting him/herself up for some resistance from other species, he/she's also going to be seen as Saren 2.0.

Between having a Krogan, Rachni, and Geth army that will be ready for the Reapers, and doing this for the "Good of the Galaxy" (just like Saren), you will come across a lot of resistance from the main Council races. Essentially, all your talks of "building bridges" and "winning hearts and minds" is going to go down the gutter when you have a bunch of the same armies as Saren.

You have an Army of Krogan, Geth, and Rachni... why does this sound familiar?

Not only do you have more than half the galaxy wanting you dead/hate you, the Council may also send another Spectre to find you (just like you did Saren). The only difference between you and Saren in the Council races' eyes is
that you are fighting against the Reapers and not waving a white flag. Full circle. I wonder if that happens, then would the Spectre be Kaiden/Ashley/Liara?..

That. Is. Brilliant.

If you put all your stock into the non-council races, then you don't get help from them. What a marvelous idea. I really, really hope they go this route. Would be a nice shocker for the straight up Paragons who haven't had any real fallout from their decisions yet.

[danielassault]

Too many things in ME2 are black & white, shame.