45 réponses à ce sujet

[cevlako]

These two abilities seem identical to me. What exactly is the difference between them?

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Reave replenishes your own health while sucking away the health of enemies. You would warp two enemies in front of you and get killed off by a third in the distance. With Reave, you can do the same thing while also allowing you to soak up extra damage as you steal health.





And it melts through armor a hell of a lot faster.

[SmilingMirror]

Warp is a ball that does instant damage. If you have a biotic power on the enemy your hitting with warp, the warp detonates, causing more damage and a wider radius.

Reave travels instantly, it has no AoE like overload however (unless you get Area Reave, which has the same Area of Effect as most other "Area" powers). If a health bar is exposed it sucks health from an enemy. It also does a little more damage technically. 

And it melts through armor a hell of a lot faster.

False.  Both are good in their own ways.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 18 février 2010 - 06:18 .

[themaxzero]

Warp is good if you want a Detonation. Reave is better if you don't.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

SmilingMirror wrote...

Warp is a ball that does instant damage. If you have a biotic power on the enemy your hitting with warp, the warp detonates, causing more damage and a wider radius.

Reave travels instantly, it has no AoE like overload however (unless you get Area Reave, which has the same Area of Effect as most other "Area" powers). If a health bar is exposed it sucks health from an enemy. It also does a little more damage technically. 

And it melts through armor a hell of a lot faster.

False.  Both are good in their own ways.

Sure looked like it killed armor faster to me.  I tested it in my last playthrough as a Sentinel.



Anyway, we forgot to mention Reave's most beneficial attribute:  Crippling enemies.  Nothing like reducing enemies into cannon fodder in the fetal position.

Modifié par ItsFreakinJesus, 18 février 2010 - 06:33 .

[Ascendantios]

a small added perk of Reave is that when put on an organic enemy whose health bar is exposed it does a little quasi-stun (basically the enemy arches its back in pain). this is hugely beneficial on hardcore and insanity modes, as it allows your team to lay a hurt on them before they can scamper into cover.

Modifié par Ascendantios, 18 février 2010 - 06:35 .

[SmilingMirror]

Personally, I like Warp better for three reasons on my Sentinel.
1. is because I'm a CQC sentinel, and I like to warp a krogan inbetween hitting him. (the instant damage, plus it has the knockback stun effect on armor, reave only stuns when their health bar is exposed)
2. is because i don't see a need to waste a bonus power on something i already have. (warp)
3. Reave lacks AoE unless its Area Reave making Area Reave the most obvious choice if i'm picking it. Warp almost always hits if i aim really high above them and "curve" the ball, even in cover. This allows me to grab Heavy Warp, which is good tactically because i can take someone out of a fight quicker.

Sure looked like it killed armor faster to me.  I tested it in my last playthrough as a Sentinel.

My warp blows off armor bars instantly on insanity. I don't know whats faster than instant, but if your right, it can't even be worth noting.

Besides Christina has been nice enough to show that they both get the same 2x damage bonus against the same weaknesses anyways.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 18 février 2010 - 06:43 .

[DragoonKain3]

Reave does more damage than Warp due to it being affected by +duration upgrades. assuming you take the same evolution (heavy vs heavy, area vs area). In fact, because of +duration increasing your damage, Area Reave does almost as much damage against single target as Heavy Warp.



For Adepts, its vital in Insanity if you want to be able to leave cover firing your gun. Otherwise, you spend too much time hiding behind cover because you have no other way to recover. Sure, Barrier/GSB/Fortification does the same thing and any of the three is still useful against synthetics, but against organics (which is majority of enemies) Reave has no match because it has half the cooldown and each use against health recovers almost as much (Area on 1 Target) or more (Heavy or Area on 2+ targets) than Barrier/GSB/Fortification recovers your shields. All this on top of actually doing damage.



Fact that you can AoE without any setup like Warp Explosion makes it superior against rushers like Varren and Husks. Instant travel time plus AoE actually gives it more cover penetration than one would think as well.





For Sents, it's not as useful defensively because they have Tech Armor already. And since Tech Armor's bonus does not work unless you have shields on, while Reave is only useful when you have less than 100% health. its kinda self defeating to have both if you're just using Reave for defense.



That said, Sents have no AoE apart from Overload, which only works on shields. Getting Area Reave means not only can you skip Throw early to mid-game (meaning you get to max your powers earlier). but this makes you a force to reckon with as you have an AoE damage/CC ability against Organics via Reave, while still having the same against synthetics via Overload. Late game at max level you also get access to Heavy Throw, which is useful even in Insanity to effectively stunlock some enemies due to its short cooldown + Guardian, even with protection.

[TheShizzo]

My view on it is this: Warp is great if you have extra biotics floating around that you want to explode, and of course agianst enemies with barrier. (instant booms are fun)

Reave however, is better IMO if you do not have enemies suffering from your biotic attacks. It deals it's damage instantly agianst barrier and armor jus the same, however agianst health it does it over time. The benefit of this is that many enemies who are in the red go into a pain animation while under the effects of reave. I can't count how many times reaving a krogan while he's in the health bar before he charged has saved my life, it stops them dead in their tracks for a second and lets you unlock while they take damage from both reave and your weapons fire. Granted for the krogan example cryo would be better, but you get the idea.

Also, overload the shield off a heavy weapons enemy, reave them, and they stand up behind cover allowing you to plug to couple assault rifle shots in em for reave to finish them...also nice.  With warp it would just take their health down to a third and they'd still be there able to fire.

Modifié par TheShizzo, 18 février 2010 - 08:31 .

[Axx Bytehoven]

Another vote for Heavy Reave 4. Area Reave 4 comes in handy on Husk infested missions like the IFF mission, as it knocks down many husk armors so the squad cryo ammo can do it's job.

[Graunt]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Reave replenishes your own health while sucking away the health of enemies. You would warp two enemies in front of you and get killed off by a third in the distance. With Reave, you can do the same thing while also allowing you to soak up extra damage as you steal health.


And it melts through armor a hell of a lot faster.

I don't notice Reave "melting through armor a hell of a lot faster" when it seems like a basic Warp will strip all armor from a Vorcha, and an Adept/Sentinel fully enhanced Warp will remove all armor from a Krogan.  I don't notice Reave ever being as effective, and I also never seem to gain enough life from it that it actually makes any kind of difference at all.

Besides that it seems like a waste of a bonus for something like a Sentinel unless you're just trying to play it like an Adept without Singularity or Pull.  I'd rather pickup an ammo.

Modifié par Graunt, 18 février 2010 - 12:50 .

[coinop25]

They do similar amounts of damage, but as these descriptions point out, the effect on the battlefield is pretty different. I use Warp on my Adept so I can do major damage in a wide radius by shooting enemies who are already affected by Pull and Singularity. I use Reave on my Vanguard so I can buff up my own health and soften up some enemies (and sometimes lock down a whole area of guys arching their backs in pain) before I Charge them.

[Coughee Brotha]

Reave does double damage to armor and barriers. Also against armor and and barriers the damage is instant while it has a duration on health. therefore heavy reave with 220 points will do 440 points on armor and barrier. Reave does not have a detonation like warp does. I prefer reave myself but I have seen players who prefer both by casting reave and then warp to blow them up

[JaegerBane]

Graunt wrote...

I don't notice Reave "melting through armor a hell of a lot faster" when it seems like a basic Warp will strip all armor from a Vorcha, and an Adept/Sentinel fully enhanced Warp will remove all armor from a Krogan.  I don't notice Reave ever being as effective, and I also never seem to gain enough life from it that it actually makes any kind of difference at all.

Besides that it seems like a waste of a bonus for something like a Sentinel unless you're just trying to play it like an Adept without Singularity or Pull.  I'd rather pickup an ammo.

As far as the stats say Warp and Reave are equal at melting armour. The only real difference is Health, where Reave will melt enemies while Warp does it's damage all at once. The actual damage they do is the same. Reave does, however, carry with it an organic incapacitation that Warp does not have, nor can it heal you.

Heavy Reave does a small amount of extra total damage than Heavy Warp (220 vs 200) while Area Reave causes it's effect over a wide area, something no incarnation of Warp does.

Make no mistake, Reave is the superior power once evolved.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 18 février 2010 - 05:38 .

[akintu]

Warp has a knockback effect, as SmilingMirror mentioned. Personally, I never found Reave to be suitable, because it lacks that effect. A Sentinel can make short work of most enemies that get to close range by hitting them with a Warp and then unloading with an SMG or hand cannon at close range while they are "stunned". Very easy to get head shots with this method. Reave just seemed to hurt my ability to do weapon DPS.



I concede that as a power isolated from other mechanics, it may be superior. I just found it weaker on the Sentinel than Warp when considering that I lost the ability to knockback/stun enemies and get those easy headshots. Also lacking the ability to curve Reave around cover seriously hampered its usefulness.

[Saetanigera]

SmilingMirror wrote...
My warp blows off armor bars instantly on insanity. I don't know whats faster than instant, but if your right, it can't even be worth noting.

You use warp on armor or a barrier. On the count of two it hits doing instant damage.
You use reave on armor or a barrier. When you finish 'one' it finished doing damage.

[Roxlimn]

JaegerBane:



Depends on application. By itself, Reave is superior once evolved. In combination with other powers, Warp is better since the area evolution of Warp has an insane 7 meter radius explosion effect. I found Reave better for single target applications - Warp for area applications.

[tvai]

Reave



shorter cooldown, superior damage, heals

[RamsenC]

I prefer warp for the explosion, but you can always bring Samara around for both without wasting your bonus power.

[SmilingMirror]

On my newest Sentinel playthrough, I have been finding Heavy Reave pretty useful, but damage wise they are exactly the same.

Anyone who's having trouble "melting" armor with one or the other obviously has not had a stable control for their experiment. (like you guys got biotic damage upgrades ect)

Funny enough, I actually have found I like Warp better on health, since it incapacitates an enemy without them firing at me later.

Also, doesn't Unstable Warp have a large AoE like Area Reave? why are you guys treating it like its smaller?

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 19 février 2010 - 10:16 .

[JaegerBane]

alex_ladik wrote...

Warp has a knockback effect, as SmilingMirror mentioned. Personally, I never found Reave to be suitable, because it lacks that effect. A Sentinel can make short work of most enemies that get to close range by hitting them with a Warp and then unloading with an SMG or hand cannon at close range while they are "stunned". Very easy to get head shots with this method. Reave just seemed to hurt my ability to do weapon DPS.

I concede that as a power isolated from other mechanics, it may be superior. I just found it weaker on the Sentinel than Warp when considering that I lost the ability to knockback/stun enemies and get those easy headshots. Also lacking the ability to curve Reave around cover seriously hampered its usefulness.

Reave does have a stun. In fact it's stun is superior in neutralisation time to Warp. It doesn't work on Mechs, of course, but lasts longer on Organics.

I'm still not totally sure why the inability to arc it over obstacles is such an issue. It hits instantly. Just cast it when they're in view. I suppose an enemy that never pops it's head up... but realistically, how many times does this happen?

It isn't simply superior in mechanics. Half the stuff you've mentioned above simply isn't supported by it's characteristics.

Roxlimn

Granted, the AoE version of Warp does have a large radius, no doubt. I'm not sure it's damage actually equates to the total damage you'll see from an AoE Reave, however. That said, Unstable Warp and Area Reave are completely different abilities, intended for different purposes. That's what I was getting at by pointing out that they're very much the same until Rank 4.

[Kurupt87]

unstable warp explosion does truck loads of damage, i think its 400, to whatever protection they have, and to everyone within 7 metres, that is a HUGE area btw, generally covers at least 3/4 of enemies firing at you.
edit: you have to set it up though, ie miranda hvy warps someone then jacob/samara pulls then you explode them. all this can be done in less than a second.

Modifié par Kurupt87, 19 février 2010 - 10:30 .

[SmilingMirror]

Reave does have a stun. In fact it's stun is superior in neutralisation time to Warp. It doesn't work on Mechs, of course, but lasts longer on Organics.

Too true. but when Reave stuns it doesn't have any newton force to it....they simply drop. Warp doesn't really have any newton force either, but its a true "knockback" effect that can launch people if tech armor explodes or someone casts throw.

I'm still not totally sure why the inability to arc it over obstacles is such an issue. It hits instantly. Just cast it when they're in view. I suppose an enemy that never pops it's head up... but realistically, how many times does this happen?

It happens much more than you think on my game, and when enemies start regenerating super fast on insanity, it can become quite the issue. Warp also allows me to curve it over boxes against things that float in the air.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 19 février 2010 - 10:32 .

[JaegerBane]

Kurupt87 wrote...

unstable warp explosion does truck loads of damage, i think its 400, to whatever protection they have, and to everyone within 7 metres, that is a HUGE area btw, generally covers at least 3/4 of enemies firing at you.
edit: you have to set it up though, ie miranda hvy warps someone then jacob/samara pulls then you explode them. all this can be done in less than a second.

If you're going to put that much effort into it, I should hope the damage is high.

[blank1]

If you're looking for a direct damage ability, Reave is superior, because it does a little bit more damage than Warp, as well as having a life tap bonus when used on organics. However, the point of Warp is not that it's good at taking out barriers and armor, it's the detonation, specifically on Adepts. I can understand why a Sentinel would take Reave over Warp -- they don't have to put points into throw, and Reave is superior in the way that Sentinels use Warp... as a defense breaker and direct damage ability. However, because Adepts get Singularity and Pull, Warp defeats Reave as far as Adepts are concerned. You can lock down someone, even with armor, a barrier, or a shield, with Singularity, eliminate their defenses with gunfire or squad abilities, then Warp detonate them for either an instant kill, or eliminate most of their HP. Warp detonation damage not only does Warp damage, but up to 700 newtons of physics damage when they hit the floor or wall, which is substantial. (Edit) also, I should note that the 700 newtons of physics damage is actually multiplied since they are weightless.

The best part, is the radius of the detonation is huge, even without unstable warp. 5 meters in this game is a very large radius. If you warp someone who is lifted or floating in a singularity, they will go flying and die... but also, his friends who are nearby, even with a shield, armor, or a barrier, will go flying from the physics explosion and take damage. Warp detonations are the ultimate AoE nuke, and they're not hard to set up either. Lock down a target with Singularity (It's on a short cooldown too, which is nice), shoot him a few times to remove protection, Warp deonate his ass, and watch him die, as well as all his buddies go sprawling all over the floor so you can lift/detonate them too. Lift/Warp is very useful too, since Lift is on such a short cooldown timer. You can rapidly Lift/Warp an enemy in the middle of a group and send all of them flying, then catch the fliers with a Singularity and Warp again. It's amazingly fun.

Modifié par blank1, 19 février 2010 - 10:41 .