45 réponses à ce sujet

[Kurupt87]

its not that much effort tbh, 3 buttons and most enemies now have no protection and have lost some health.

[rumination888]

If you're playing on Insanity, Heavy Warp does slightly more damage than Heavy Reave before the biotic duration upgrade. Slightly less after.

If you already have Warp, then picking up Reave as a bonus power is almost pointless. You're never going to pick up Unstable Warp for anything but your allies anyways(only for the cooldown reduction... Heavy Warp's 5 yard radius is large enough, and it does more AoE damage than Unstable Warp), so Heavy Warp comes with more single target damage and a better aoe than Area Reave.

[DirewolfX]

tvai wrote...

Reave

shorter cooldown, superior damage, heals

False, both have a 6 second cooldown on Shepard.

I don't see the fascination with the healing ability.  By the time I'm down to just health, sticking my head out of cover is usually a death sentence anyway.  Reave is nice if you want Warp on a class that doesn't have it, but for Adepts and Sentinels I don't see any reason to waste your bonus power on something with such a slight difference from an existing ability.  Get something that complements your abilities, like Energy Drain for Adepts or an ammo power for either.

[akintu]

JaegerBane wrote...
Reave does have a stun. In fact it's stun is superior in neutralisation time to Warp. It doesn't work on Mechs, of course, but lasts longer on Organics.

I'm still not totally sure why the inability to arc it over obstacles is such an issue. It hits instantly. Just cast it when they're in view. I suppose an enemy that never pops it's head up... but realistically, how many times does this happen?

It isn't simply superior in mechanics. Half the stuff you've mentioned above simply isn't supported by it's characteristics.

Roxlimn

Granted, the AoE version of Warp does have a large radius, no doubt. I'm not sure it's damage actually equates to the total damage you'll see from an AoE Reave, however. That said, Unstable Warp and Area Reave are completely different abilities, intended for different purposes. That's what I was getting at by pointing out that they're very much the same until Rank 4.

I need to get on and play to be 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure Warp will apply its knockback to targets that are armored.  Which is a huge bonus, even if it only holds them still for a second.

A Sentinel gets a huge chunk of damage from constant bombardment.  Well, one style of Sentinel.  You have an Artillery Sentinel and an Assault Sentinel.  Reave may in fact be superior for an Assault Sentinel.  But the Artillery Sentinel gets a huge chunk of its damage from constant application of powers.  Meaning exactly every 4.2 seconds you are firing off a Warp or other power.  The ability to curve it around cover means you are very rarely unable to fire off a Warp.  Reave will force you to wait quite often for a target to emerge from cover, perhaps only for a second or two, but it adds up.  Thats the only reason it is a big deal to me to be able to curve around cover, no need to wait.

[SmilingMirror]

alex_ladik wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
Reave does have a stun. In fact it's stun is superior in neutralisation time to Warp. It doesn't work on Mechs, of course, but lasts longer on Organics.

I'm still not totally sure why the inability to arc it over obstacles is such an issue. It hits instantly. Just cast it when they're in view. I suppose an enemy that never pops it's head up... but realistically, how many times does this happen?

It isn't simply superior in mechanics. Half the stuff you've mentioned above simply isn't supported by it's characteristics.

Roxlimn

Granted, the AoE version of Warp does have a large radius, no doubt. I'm not sure it's damage actually equates to the total damage you'll see from an AoE Reave, however. That said, Unstable Warp and Area Reave are completely different abilities, intended for different purposes. That's what I was getting at by pointing out that they're very much the same until Rank 4.

I need to get on and play to be 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure Warp will apply its knockback to targets that are armored.  Which is a huge bonus, even if it only holds them still for a second.

A Sentinel gets a huge chunk of damage from constant bombardment.  Well, one style of Sentinel.  You have an Artillery Sentinel and an Assault Sentinel.  Reave may in fact be superior for an Assault Sentinel.  But the Artillery Sentinel gets a huge chunk of its damage from constant application of powers.  Meaning exactly every 4.2 seconds you are firing off a Warp or other power.  The ability to curve it around cover means you are very rarely unable to fire off a Warp.  Reave will force you to wait quite often for a target to emerge from cover, perhaps only for a second or two, but it adds up.  Thats the only reason it is a big deal to me to be able to curve around cover, no need to wait.

Reave also knocks back armored opponents, but just "force chokes" an enemy with an exposed health for 2 seconds.

[Kurupt87]

also, area reave can be targeted at the floor by the person in cover and it will hit them, therefore removing the need for them to pop up.
edit: i know this works with a squaddie reave from the radial menu, not sure about a sheperd reave though.

Modifié par Kurupt87, 20 février 2010 - 12:10 .

[akintu]

I knew it would stun an enemy in health, which is groovy. I did not know it had any effect beyond damage to armored enemies. Also groovy And the Area Reave being targetable on the floor is also quite nice, didn't know that. Might be worth taking another look at it. Still, I kinda feel there are better options for a bonus power on a Sentinel, but I'm not disputing the overall pwnedness of Reave in general

[Staylost]

There are so many "feelings" about how strong warp or reave are. Feelings are nice, but they don't really make a power better than another.



Reave damage rank 1: 120, rank 2: 140, rank 3, 160, rank 4: 220.

Warp damage rank 1: 120, rank 2: 140, rank 3: 160, rank 4: 200.



If you go AOE at lvl. 4 it is 160 vs. 160.

Base numbers are very similar with a slight bonus to heavy reave.



The problem with just looking at base numbers is that your power duration bonuses, if you invest in getting them, will make reave much more powerful. A 10% increase in duration will make heavy reave do 242 damage, while leaving heavy warp at 200. This same effect applies to area reave of course. This creates a multiplying effect for reaves damage when combined with +power damage.

This same issue is complicated by warp's explosion when hitting a previously bioticly effected enemy. The damage done is a lot, and I'm sure it is more than reave's duration buff, however, you have to have the enemy down to health to do it.

Reave has an instant effect vs. warp being curvable.

Reave heals your character if it hits health damage, but if reave hits health it applies its damage as a DoT rather than an instant.



My conclusion is that reave is superior for those who like to stay in the line of fire while already having lost their shields (maybe soldier), while warp is superior for those who will often have their enemies effected by biotics (maybe adept). Reave is better for starting the fight (more damage) & warp is better for finishing it (more damage to health when combined with other biotics).



It should be quite clear that reave is superior for stripping defenses and warp is superior if you are using its biotic explosion to effect enemies standing nearby.



My advice to those who do not want to dig up niche uses for these two abilities is simple:

Use warp if you have the ability singularity.

Use reave if you do not have the ability singularity.

[rumination888]

Staylost wrote...

There are so many "feelings" about how strong warp or reave are. Feelings are nice, but they don't really make a power better than another.

Reave damage rank 1: 120, rank 2: 140, rank 3, 160, rank 4: 220.
Warp damage rank 1: 120, rank 2: 140, rank 3: 160, rank 4: 200.

If you go AOE at lvl. 4 it is 160 vs. 160.
Base numbers are very similar with a slight bonus to heavy reave.

The problem with just looking at base numbers is that your power duration bonuses, if you invest in getting them, will make reave much more powerful. A 10% increase in duration will make heavy reave do 242 damage, while leaving heavy warp at 200. This same effect applies to area reave of course. This creates a multiplying effect for reaves damage when combined with +power damage.
This same issue is complicated by warp's explosion when hitting a previously bioticly effected enemy. The damage done is a lot, and I'm sure it is more than reave's duration buff, however, you have to have the enemy down to health to do it.
Reave has an instant effect vs. warp being curvable.
Reave heals your character if it hits health damage, but if reave hits health it applies its damage as a DoT rather than an instant.

My conclusion is that reave is superior for those who like to stay in the line of fire while already having lost their shields (maybe soldier), while warp is superior for those who will often have their enemies effected by biotics (maybe adept). Reave is better for starting the fight (more damage) & warp is better for finishing it (more damage to health when combined with other biotics).

It should be quite clear that reave is superior for stripping defenses and warp is superior if you are using its biotic explosion to effect enemies standing nearby.

My advice to those who do not want to dig up niche uses for these two abilities is simple:
Use warp if you have the ability singularity.
Use reave if you do not have the ability singularity.

On Insanity, duration is multiplied by 0.8. This includes the duration on Reave and that directly modifies its "instant" damage against non-health.

...i feel as though I've been saying that in threads atleast once a day.

[Kurupt87]

lol, a warp vs reave thread does seem to come up at least once a day, there've been 2 today i think. ditto your feeling.

[Staylost]

rumination888 wrote...

On Insanity, duration is multiplied by 0.8. This includes the duration on Reave and that directly modifies its "instant" damage against non-health.

...i feel as though I've been saying that in threads atleast once a day.

Good point. Reave is questionable when compared to warp on insanity. Since it barely outdamages Warp even after upgrades, you would only want to go reave if you absolutely had to have an AOE power with area reave.

When speaking outside of squad terms, I personally think you should just stick with whichever one you get. If you are a Adept or a Sentinel, stick with Warp, and if you are anything else, you can only get reave anyway (not that you should cry over having such an awesome power).

[Awesome Helmet]

you cant take reave with something that has warp or even incinerate for that matter. the sentinel already has warp and overload. the infiltrators already got incinerate. the adept doesnt need two things that do the same thing nor do they do anything but use warp/singularity on repeat but thats a whole other story. the vanguard could probably get use out of it useing it as its debuff. no idea what the engineer needs. i think the soldier has the best use with it. its the soldiers only debuff. use concussive as youre CC ability. reave i hear works as a decent CC ability too. as a bonus its a cool animation for the soldier. i only use heavy versions, and i have limited use with reave, but id thnk the soldier is the only best choice with reave. the same could be said with dominate for the infiltrator or warp ammo for the adept.

[Roxlimn]

JaegerBane:



I highly suggest trying out Unstable Warp. It's quite fun. The area on the thing is unbelievably huge - like you have to go through a lot of trouble to NOT catch at least two opponents in it huge. Like, kill a Collector Platform in one go huge.



Yes, that can be done. Heavy Warp or Reave to remove defenses on the center Collector, Pull to bring him up, then Unstable Warp to detonate. It's not just the damage - the knockback effect is similar to a Throw, so if they're hit, they will most likely go over the edge and die - mass insta-kill in a few seconds. It's actually faster and easier than sniping them out with HAR.

[_Dannok1234]

JaegerBane wrote...

Kurupt87 wrote...
unstable warp explosion does truck loads of damage, i think its 400, to whatever protection they have, and to everyone within 7 metres, that is a HUGE area btw, generally covers at least 3/4 of enemies firing at you.
edit: you have to set it up though, ie miranda hvy warps someone then jacob/samara pulls then you explode them. all this can be done in less than a second.

If you're going to put that much effort into it, I should hope the damage is high.

It's something you definitely should try out when you get the chance. If you have warp or reave on your char, bring along squad mates that can lift/Warp like Samara and Thane for example. It's a devastating combo and it can take out several enemies in about 1 second. Pretty much fastest way there is when it comes to killing groups of enemies.

[akintu]

Question: Would a Sentinel would get more mileage out of Dominate instead of Reave?



I finally got around to getting Dominate tonight and played with it for one mission. It seems quite handy. Does anyone know if Dominate will trigger a Warp explosion if you hit the dominated enemy? Sometimes, I felt like there was an explosion, but I never could pin down whether it was something else going on or not. I don't have my level 4 Warp yet, which would probably be helpful for testing.



Anyway, Dominate seemed very impressive. If, and like I said, I want to test this, and if anyone knows for sure, let me know, if dominated targets can trigger a Warp explosion, I would have to say Dominate is an amazing ability for a Sentinel.

[Roxlimn]

It isn't hard to tell whether there's a Warp Explosion or not because there's usually bodies flying every which way. As far as I recall, Dominate does indeed detonate a Warp.

[akintu]

So Dominate would be the only way a Sentinel could get a Warp detonation without using a squadmate's cast?



That would seem to put Dominate ahead of Reave, at least for Sentinels. You lose out on a bit of direct damage by using Warp instead of Reave. But you get an ability that offers a longer duration crowd control on unprotected targets. You lose out on the health drain, but you gain damage from the dominated target, as well as a distracting force. And you now have a target to hit with Warp detonations.



I'm seeing great potential in Unstable Warp combined with Area Dominate...though at this point all I know is I used Dominate for Thane's recruitment mission and it was a ton of fun, and I seemed to blow through it significantly faster and easier than I remember.

[Koralis]

JaegerBane wrote...

As far as the stats say Warp and Reave are equal at melting armour. The only real difference is Health, where Reave will melt enemies while Warp does it's damage all at once. The actual damage they do is the same. Reave does, however, carry with it an organic incapacitation that Warp does not have, nor can it heal you.

Heavy Reave does a small amount of extra total damage than Heavy Warp (220 vs 200) while Area Reave causes it's effect over a wide area, something no incarnation of Warp does.

Make no mistake, Reave is the superior power once evolved.

BUT Warp can be used to explode people that are Singularitied.  That is equivilent to an area reave in terms of damage (though it hurts shields, barriers, armors, or health...)

I prefer Warp.

[SmilingMirror]

alex_ladik wrote...

So Dominate would be the only way a Sentinel could get a Warp detonation without using a squadmate's cast?

That would seem to put Dominate ahead of Reave, at least for Sentinels. You lose out on a bit of direct damage by using Warp instead of Reave. But you get an ability that offers a longer duration crowd control on unprotected targets. You lose out on the health drain, but you gain damage from the dominated target, as well as a distracting force. And you now have a target to hit with Warp detonations.

I'm seeing great potential in Unstable Warp combined with Area Dominate...though at this point all I know is I used Dominate for Thane's recruitment mission and it was a ton of fun, and I seemed to blow through it significantly faster and easier than I remember.

no...you can reave them as a guardian if you have upgrades. pointless i admit, but just getting technical.

Reave is okay if your not spending points on throw as a Sentinel.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 20 février 2010 - 04:58 .

[Kurupt87]

alex_ladik wrote...

So Dominate would be the only way a Sentinel could get a Warp detonation without using a squadmate's cast?

i think slam can also be used to set up a detonation, and its got a 3s base cooldown and is a 8s cc if you don't bang it, nice and quick.

[akintu]

Good to know. I just figured the duration on Reave and Slam was too short, but that is awesome that there are some choices for powers to set up detonations.