143 réponses à ce sujet

[Mars Nova]

It bothered me that rewriting the geth heretics on Legion's loyalty mission was considered the Paragon option.  To me, if you do that, then you're no different then the heretics, or even the Reapers.  It's indoctrination, pure and simple.  It seems to me that it should have been the other way around, kill=paragon, brainwash=renegade.

[Kordras]

I thought so at first as well, but as far as I can tell what you're doing is counter-acting the Reaper virus that changed their behavior in the first place. Legion says that rewriting the Heretics will allow them to isolate themselves, and rethink their position on things.

[Talogrungi]

Pfft. They're just malfunctioning toasters.

If your toaster was broken and you could easily fix it, would you do so or throw it away?

The Reapers indoctrinated the Geth; rewriting them is basically the same as deprogramming a cult member.

[DarthCaine]

It's pretty obvious which is the "right" choice if you try both choices and talk to Legion afterwards

Rewrite=Good geth get stronger
Destroy their main base=The rest of the heretics want revenge

Modifié par DarthCaine, 18 février 2010 - 07:24 .

[Tisiphne]

It seems like two bad options to me. Very ambiguous. The only redeeming point in rewriting them is that they came to their conclusions through as Legion states it, a purely mathematical error instigated by the Reapers. They had a basic logical rule that caused the derivative higher function calculations to be incorrect. They were essentially operating with the understanding that 2+2=5. However, they are sentient beings, and if capable of emotion, logic may be a secondary motivator.

Plenty of cults operate with mistaken basic ideas about the universe, but they continue to believe the same thing.

Modifié par Tisiphne, 18 février 2010 - 07:28 .

[didymos1120]

Either way, you've "killed" the Heretics. If you rewrite, then at least something of them will live on, and hopefully they'll have some inside info on Reapers.

[RhythmlessNinja]

lol my own geth army or an army of geth after me? I think I know which I'm gonna pick. :>

[Amethyst Deceiver]

its a lose/lose situation.

[Gill Kaiser]

If you choose the Renegade option "They're just machines", Legion agrees and says that to apply organic ethics to synthetic life forms is a form of racism. Just putting that out there.

[didymos1120]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

If you choose the Renegade option "They're just machines", Legion agrees and says that to apply organic ethics to synthetic life forms is a form of racism. Just putting that out there.

Yeah, well, what does he know, huh?  He's just a damn machine anyway.  Oh, wait....

[Rykn]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

its a lose/lose situation.

It's also win/win depending on your view but yeah. both choices are fail. the best i can do is say that if you rewrite them they won't harm organics again and if you kill them they will continue to hurt organics

[Amethyst Deceiver]

haha, i just noticed that guys sig, Nihilus for ME3 squadmate.

now thats funny. nice one

[Kordras]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

haha, i just noticed that guys sig, Nihilus for ME3 squadmate.
now thats funny. nice one

*Thumbs up*

I'll say though, my most recent playthrough made this choice even more difficult. I'm not entirely sure if your influence will matter in ME3, but I encouraged the quarian war effort to take back their homeworld, before I found out that geth aren't all trying to kill everything. Re-writing the geth seems like the right thing to do, but, when the quarians go to war it means the geth will be that much stronger. Made me think a bit longer on it.

Modifié par Kordras, 18 février 2010 - 07:43 .

[KealaFerret]

Kordras wrote...

I thought so at first as well, but as far as I can tell what you're doing is counter-acting the Reaper virus that changed their behavior in the first place. Legion says that rewriting the Heretics will allow them to isolate themselves, and rethink their position on things.

This is exactly how I looked at it. It's undoing the damage that the Reapers did and giving the Geth back their free will so to speak. The Geth have, much like the Protheans, been perverted by the Reapers. In my opinion, it gave the Geth a second chance, to be something decent. Maybe. Or at least give them a fighting chance to be around to tick off the Quarians.

It seemed a reasonable solution, really.

[KealaFerret]

As an aside, this game has a lot of lose/lose decisions and shades of gray. Which is good.

[Amethyst Deceiver]

KealaFerret wrote...

As an aside, this game has a lot of lose/lose decisions and shades of gray. Which is good.

i agree. that one decision where you have to either save the capital city or save the military assets from the batarian terrorist attack was a tough choice to make, and either way you lose.

and of course the whole colector base decision is also a very big lose/lose choice.

Modifié par Amethyst Deceiver, 18 février 2010 - 07:42 .

[didymos1120]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

i agree. that one decision where you have to either save the capital city or save the military assets from the batarian terrorist attack was a tough choice to make, and either way you lose.

Umm, what?  Are you referring to Bring Down The Sky?  'Cause your choice there was:

a. Save Kate Bowman and a few other civvies.
b. Prevent highly dangerous Batarian terrorist from escaping.

Either way, Terra Nova was going to make it.

ETA: Oh, OK. Nevermind.  That one N7 mission in ME2. Forgot about that.

Modifié par didymos1120, 18 février 2010 - 07:47 .

[Amethyst Deceiver]

no there was a batarian terrorist attack in ME2. its one of the planetary anamoly side missions. cant remember the name of the planet

[Kordras]

Edit: Explanation unnecessary.

Modifié par Kordras, 18 février 2010 - 07:48 .

[Lareit]

Destroying them is the safer and the more honorable choice.

rewriting them is wrong on alot of levels.

You either admit the geth are simple machines and rewriting them is simply correcting them. Which implies that Legion is simply a machine and tool to be used, the qurians were right to try to kill them, and all the other bad eggs regarding their sentience.



Rewriting them also runs the risk of traumatizing the True Geth. It might not even change the heretics. It might make the True Geth stronger and perhaps Legion is lying about the True Geth's intentions.



Destroying them is safer and it lets the heretics keep their choices for themselves even if killing them prevents them from making future ones.



It's the paragon choice, damn the game.

[Amethyst Deceiver]

Lareit wrote...

Destroying them is the safer and the more honorable choice.
rewriting them is wrong on alot of levels.
You either admit the geth are simple machines and rewriting them is simply correcting them. Which implies that Legion is simply a machine and tool to be used, the qurians were right to try to kill them, and all the other bad eggs regarding their sentience.

Rewriting them also runs the risk of traumatizing the True Geth. It might not even change the heretics. It might make the True Geth stronger and perhaps Legion is lying about the True Geth's intentions.

Destroying them is safer and it lets the heretics keep their choices for themselves even if killing them prevents them from making future ones.

It's the paragon choice, damn the game.

its not that clear cut. euthanasia can never be clearly defined as paragon or renegade. even if the intent is purely paragon, who the hell are we to decide that?

we are not god, and taking life is still taking life (ending sapient machine existence is a close equivalent to taking life). no matter how justified.

[Cutlass Jack]

As a Paragon, I had no trouble at all choosing to destroy them. Reasons?

1. Brainwashing isn't a very Paragon thing to do (even says this on paragon dialogue options)

2. Brainwashed or no, they would eventually link back to the collective geth, sharing their memories. Their experiences might cause all the geth to come to different 'math' concerning organic life. Or at the very least prove very traumatic.

3. These were the Heretics who murdered all those people on Eden Prime and elsewhere. Those dead deserve justice.

4. Legion seemed perfectly fine with it.

5. Scores big 'boyfriend' points with Tali.

[Astranagant]

DarthCaine wrote...

It's pretty obvious which is the "right" choice if you try both choices and talk to Legion afterwards

Rewrite=Good geth get stronger
Destroy their main base=The rest of the heretics want revenge

Like Shepard can ask: "What's to stop them from coming to the same conclusion again?"

Hacking them and allowing them to reintegrate into the Geth majority is taking a huge risk of reintroducing the Heretic view into the Geth at large.

[Lareit]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

Lareit wrote...

Destroying them is the safer and the more honorable choice.
rewriting them is wrong on alot of levels.
You either admit the geth are simple machines and rewriting them is simply correcting them. Which implies that Legion is simply a machine and tool to be used, the qurians were right to try to kill them, and all the other bad eggs regarding their sentience.

Rewriting them also runs the risk of traumatizing the True Geth. It might not even change the heretics. It might make the True Geth stronger and perhaps Legion is lying about the True Geth's intentions.

Destroying them is safer and it lets the heretics keep their choices for themselves even if killing them prevents them from making future ones.

It's the paragon choice, damn the game.

its not that clear cut. euthanasia can never be clearly defined as paragon or renegade. even if the intent is purely paragon, who the hell are we to decide that?

we are not god, and taking life is still taking life (ending sapient machine existence is a close equivalent to taking life). no matter how justified.

We're not putting them to sleep for the good of themselves. We're killing them in retaliation for their aggression against us.

Frankly there is only spectulation they were hacked by the Reapers. Which frankly I find highly inaccurate. If the geth were able to by hacked by Soverign it makes no sense he wouldn't of simply controlled their entire civilization. If they were hacked, then when the heretics rejoined the True Geth, it would of been a simple process of reloading the basic geth collective conscienceness into the hacked geth and fixing them, as is what happens to geth when you hack their mobile platforms.

Finally, Legion never says they were manipulated by soverign or indoctrinated, even though he is aware of indoctrination and it's effects.

Which means the heretics of their own free collective will decided to align with the reapers and dedicate themselves to the extermination of all sentient organic life.

As that is their chosen goal, destroying them is the only viable thing to do. They are not the entire race of Geth, they are simply a faction. This isn't genocide, which means complete annhilation of the Heretics is far more prudent then any other option avaliable.


As for taking life is taking life. I concur, I would prefer to die then be brainwashed. I might accept slavery, but that would be my choice. I could of just as easily resisted and die or cast off the shackles. By rewriting them you are denying them the option to choose. You have killed those individuals, what is left is simply something new.

[didymos1120]

Astranagant wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

It's pretty obvious which is the "right" choice if you try both choices and talk to Legion afterwards

Rewrite=Good geth get stronger
Destroy their main base=The rest of the heretics want revenge

Like Shepard can ask: "What's to stop them from coming to the same conclusion again?"

Hacking them and allowing them to reintegrate into the Geth majority is taking a huge risk of reintroducing the Heretic view into the Geth at large.

Sure, but what intelligence on the Reapers does destroying them potentially forfeit?  And it is simple fact that not every Heretic was present on that station.  A whole lot sure, but we have no idea how many others would remain.    And also, what's to stop some other subset of the Geth from also coming to conclusions that result in hostility towards organics?  Nothing.  Nor is there anything to stop any race or subset thereof, synthetic or organic, from adopting aggressive ideologies.