250 réponses à ce sujet

[Okkomon]

Llandaryn wrote...

Okkomon wrote...

chubert wrote...

So I keep hearing about people saying someone died and that they will have to try things different on their next playthrough. Well doesnt anyone save before the Omega 4 Relay? I mean launch suicide mission should give you a hint to save before it.

We are discussing about an issue regarding game design and such nonsense, not how to load a game. Thanks for your input nonetheless.

Dude, if a bunch of us were going on a suicide mission right now, I wouldn't put you as squad leader either.

*renegade interrupt*

Yeah, too bad you will never lead my squad. Dude.

*Bam!*

[Cutlass Jack]

Okkomon wrote...

Good point, i accept the reasoning that she only sees things as a solitude single entity in her current path (even as weak it is), but i still feel a lack of reason on many regards here considering  the comparisons as i have explained.

Again there's a huge difference between being able to succeed at the assigned task, and being able to do so with no losses. Samara focuses on her objective to the exclusion of all other considerations. If people die but the objective is achieved, that's acceptable to her.

Zaeed is a bad leader for much the same reason. If you listen to his stories most of them end with being the only one living to collect a paycheck for success.

[flem1]

Urazz wrote...

Miranda has experience leading Cerberus cells so she does have the experience of leading people.  She's also 2nd in command of the ship.

Being XO is far different from being the boss.  And it's never clear what she was leading in the past -- and anyway, she wasn't with Cerb's military wing.

Jacob, while he may not have much command experience

Actually, he commanded his own privateer ship.  That's experience.

[flem1]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Samara focuses on her objective to the exclusion of all other considerations. If people die but the objective is achieved, that's acceptable to her.

Nope.  You missed her Nihlus story.

[T0paze]

challenger18 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

Miranda is a good leader and a vigilant guardian. Her write up says it clearly. Also her class combat skill shows it too. Tactitian or Leader. But if you hate her, you have another choice. Garrus. This guy lead a team of 12 mercs and managed to ****** off all of Omega. He is a great Leader. Oh he got his squad kill, that was not a leadership mistake.. he was betrayed by his own teammate leaving the rest of the team without their leader. So they died because was not there! The mistake was from an internal betrayel. So you do not need to worry about either of that at the suicide mission.
Honestly you can't hold it against him and his leadership skills, nor would Shepard be in a position to talk. He died.

That's another point. The game pretty much tells you all you need to know. I noticed on a second playthrough when I was actually reading her personal class skill bonus that it mentions her being the leader of the Fire team, which is the second squad name in the suicide mission.

Actually. reading those descriptions may, as I mentioned, lead you to think that Jacob is a good choice for creating and maintaining a barrier, while he's not. So, that's not so simple.

[eternalnightmare13]

[quote]Legbiter wrote...

[quote]
She's billed as a Cerberus tactical expert. Works for me.
[/quote]

EXACTLY!

[challenger18]

T0paze wrote...

challenger18 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

Miranda is a good leader and a vigilant guardian. Her write up says it clearly. Also her class combat skill shows it too. Tactitian or Leader. But if you hate her, you have another choice. Garrus. This guy lead a team of 12 mercs and managed to ****** off all of Omega. He is a great Leader. Oh he got his squad kill, that was not a leadership mistake.. he was betrayed by his own teammate leaving the rest of the team without their leader. So they died because was not there! The mistake was from an internal betrayel. So you do not need to worry about either of that at the suicide mission.
Honestly you can't hold it against him and his leadership skills, nor would Shepard be in a position to talk. He died.

That's another point. The game pretty much tells you all you need to know. I noticed on a second playthrough when I was actually reading her personal class skill bonus that it mentions her being the leader of the Fire team, which is the second squad name in the suicide mission.

Actually. reading those descriptions may, as I mentioned, lead you to think that Jacob is a good choice for creating and maintaining a barrier, while he's not. So, that's not so simple.

I never had that impression with Jacob. Sorry, but they explained that maintaining a barrier seemed like a very intesnive thing that involves concentration and high biotic ability. Jacob doesn't have high biotic ability.

[Urazz]

T0paze wrote...

Hmm, one could argue that Mordin has that kind of experimece, too. He lead an STG team, after all, and not only during the research phase, but also during the deployment, which, as he said, involved combat.

True but that was more spyguy kind of stuff where combat is avoided completely as a goal but kept to a minimum if unavoidable to make less of an impact publicly.

[keegdarv1]

Miranda leadership skills kind of make the game, as with out her mind and runing the place for two years she brings Shepard back to life. Being a good leader doesnt also mean you have to be best friends with people, and honestly the only people i see in the game having a problem with Miranda as a leader are Jack, Garrus and maybe Tali<though I feel if Shepard trust Miranda then Tali would trust Shepards judgement>



Oh and Garrus and Miranda are in the same boat their leadership only "failed" cause they were both betrayed by people.



I honestly dont see a problme with Miranda as a leader and I knew when needed a second team leader she would along with Garrus be the best choices

[eternalnightmare13]

T0paze wrote...

challenger18 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

Miranda is a good leader and a vigilant guardian. Her write up says it clearly. Also her class combat skill shows it too. Tactitian or Leader. But if you hate her, you have another choice. Garrus. This guy lead a team of 12 mercs and managed to ****** off all of Omega. He is a great Leader. Oh he got his squad kill, that was not a leadership mistake.. he was betrayed by his own teammate leaving the rest of the team without their leader. So they died because was not there! The mistake was from an internal betrayel. So you do not need to worry about either of that at the suicide mission.
Honestly you can't hold it against him and his leadership skills, nor would Shepard be in a position to talk. He died.

That's another point. The game pretty much tells you all you need to know. I noticed on a second playthrough when I was actually reading her personal class skill bonus that it mentions her being the leader of the Fire team, which is the second squad name in the suicide mission.

Actually. reading those descriptions may, as I mentioned, lead you to think that Jacob is a good choice for creating and maintaining a barrier, while he's not. So, that's not so simple.

Jack has unique upgrades to her biotics  you can research and if she's loyal she'd be the best one.

[Cutlass Jack]

flem1 wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Samara focuses on her objective to the exclusion of all other considerations. If people die but the objective is achieved, that's acceptable to her.

Nope.  You missed her Nihlus story.

I didn't miss it. He caused a conflict in her code. That's different. I also didn't miss her talking about killing an entire village of innocents Morinth got to stand in her way.

[jklinders]

If as the overall team leader you want to give yourself the best chance, personal opinion needs to be left out of the equation. Everyone has a role, the suicide mission is set up so that if you pick people you like to do a job without considering their talent, you pay for it. I have not liked all of my bosses, but most of them got stuff done.



match the character to their background for best results. That's why I had no losses my first time in.

[T0paze]

challenger18 wrote...

T0paze wrote...

challenger18 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

Miranda is a good leader and a vigilant guardian. Her write up says it clearly. Also her class combat skill shows it too. Tactitian or Leader. But if you hate her, you have another choice. Garrus. This guy lead a team of 12 mercs and managed to ****** off all of Omega. He is a great Leader. Oh he got his squad kill, that was not a leadership mistake.. he was betrayed by his own teammate leaving the rest of the team without their leader. So they died because was not there! The mistake was from an internal betrayel. So you do not need to worry about either of that at the suicide mission.
Honestly you can't hold it against him and his leadership skills, nor would Shepard be in a position to talk. He died.

That's another point. The game pretty much tells you all you need to know. I noticed on a second playthrough when I was actually reading her personal class skill bonus that it mentions her being the leader of the Fire team, which is the second squad name in the suicide mission.

Actually. reading those descriptions may, as I mentioned, lead you to think that Jacob is a good choice for creating and maintaining a barrier, while he's not. So, that's not so simple.

I never had that impression with Jacob. Sorry, but they explained that maintaining a barrier seemed like a very intesnive thing that involves concentration and high biotic ability. Jacob doesn't have high biotic ability.

True, but it can be argued that Barrier is already his natural skill, so he has a huge advantage here, even though his overall biotic powers are weaker.

[Legbiter]

See, this is why the end mission is so great, it's like an Intelligence Test for the fanbase where you get "punished" for not thinking things through logically. Plus, that mission really lets the player feel like he is in command, making all the strategic decisions come together into a solid military operation.



And those who whinge about Miranda being an uncaring ice queen, well, it was Miranda that shouted at you until you woke up, Miranda who got you armed, told you where to take cover, when to use a grenade launcher and just generally kept your sorry behind alive at the Cerberus space station.

[Cutlass Jack]

Legbiter wrote...

See, this is why the end mission is so great, it's like an Intelligence Test for the fanbase where you get "punished" for not thinking things through logically. Plus, that mission really lets the player feel like he is in command, making all the strategic decisions come together into a solid military operation.

And those who whinge about Miranda being an uncaring ice queen, well, it was Miranda that shouted at you until you woke up, Miranda who got you armed, told you where to take cover, when to use a grenade launcher and just generally kept your sorry behind alive at the Cerberus space station.

...And Miranda who likely set up the whole thing to begin with.

[challenger18]

T0paze wrote...

challenger18 wrote...

T0paze wrote...

challenger18 wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

Miranda is a good leader and a vigilant guardian. Her write up says it clearly. Also her class combat skill shows it too. Tactitian or Leader. But if you hate her, you have another choice. Garrus. This guy lead a team of 12 mercs and managed to ****** off all of Omega. He is a great Leader. Oh he got his squad kill, that was not a leadership mistake.. he was betrayed by his own teammate leaving the rest of the team without their leader. So they died because was not there! The mistake was from an internal betrayel. So you do not need to worry about either of that at the suicide mission.
Honestly you can't hold it against him and his leadership skills, nor would Shepard be in a position to talk. He died.

That's another point. The game pretty much tells you all you need to know. I noticed on a second playthrough when I was actually reading her personal class skill bonus that it mentions her being the leader of the Fire team, which is the second squad name in the suicide mission.

Actually. reading those descriptions may, as I mentioned, lead you to think that Jacob is a good choice for creating and maintaining a barrier, while he's not. So, that's not so simple.

I never had that impression with Jacob. Sorry, but they explained that maintaining a barrier seemed like a very intesnive thing that involves concentration and high biotic ability. Jacob doesn't have high biotic ability.

True, but it can be argued that Barrier is already his natural skill, so he has a huge advantage here, even though his overall biotic powers are weaker.

Just like going through vents is Thanes thing, but he isn't good with electronics. Same with Jacob. Sure he has barrier, but he doesn't have the skill to maintain a huge barrier with a radius for a long period of time.

[jklinders]

Urazz wrote...

T0paze wrote...

Hmm, one could argue that Mordin has that kind of experimece, too. He lead an STG team, after all, and not only during the research phase, but also during the deployment, which, as he said, involved combat.

True but that was more spyguy kind of stuff where combat is avoided completely as a goal but kept to a minimum if unavoidable to make less of an impact publicly.

Besides, as much as I love mordin as a character, I rank him pretty low on the "keeping orders clear and concise" scale:lol:

[Okkomon]

Again... Why is it automatically assumed that my motley crue would blindly go happy lucky with an ice queen **** of an cerberus agent, regardless of her description of an taqtican? And why should I? When playing spacer sole survivor?

Apparently she doesn't get shot in the back, but i certainly in that frame and regarding her 'ways' of interaction and so forth...  would not put her in charge of anything.

Modifié par Okkomon, 18 février 2010 - 07:22 .

[T0paze]

About Thane - well, that's not really a valid comparison. The goal of the tech team was not to go through the vents, it was to hack a door, so Thane is irrelevant. The goal of the biotic is to maintain a barrier, so Jacob's bonus skill IS relevant, it just so happens that he's not the ideal choice. Anyway, that's the developers' decision.

Modifié par T0paze, 18 février 2010 - 07:22 .

[Jax Sparrow]

Okkomon wrote...  And Miranda is much better to lead the motley crew you have how? Not to mention many have utter distrust towards Cerberus.

distrust for Cerberus translates to distrust for Miranda? I fail to see the logic behind this unless you are assuming everyone on the team has Jack's attitude towards her.  Yet, even Jack survives under Miranda's leadership so even Jack recognizes her skillz.  So what is the problem?  Pick Garrus if you are that hung up on Cerberus... or Jacob if its just Miranda you dislike.

[jklinders]

Okkomon wrote...

Again... Why is it automatically assumed that my motley crue would blindly go happy lucky with an ice queen **** of an cerberus agent, regardless of her description of an taqtican? And why should I? When playing spacer sole survivor?

 Because(and this is especially true if you have their loyalty) they trust Shepard's leadership and decisions.

[Legbiter]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

...And Miranda who likely set up the whole thing to begin with.

Naw, a bad case of blue-balls almost killed Shepard (again).

[eternalnightmare13]

What about Mordin? Is he any good as a leader? Just wondering since he was in the Salarian Special Task Force. Though he was more of a noncombatant.

[Okkomon]

jklinders wrote...

Okkomon wrote...

Again... Why is it automatically assumed that my motley crue would blindly go happy lucky with an ice queen **** of an cerberus agent, regardless of her description of an taqtican? And why should I? When playing spacer sole survivor?

 Because(and this is especially true if you have their loyalty) they trust Shepard's leadership and decisions.

What if i don't trust Miranda (or any cerberus agent) to run anything (the sole survivor, it has a beef with cerberus)?

Modifié par Okkomon, 18 février 2010 - 07:30 .