250 réponses à ce sujet

[Madecologist]

Really, from Jacobs write up I did not see him as a good candidate though. It seemed his write up focused more on his military capabilites and tactical training. While Samara and Jack were like Biotic Gods. You did not need military training or tactics, you need the most power juice for that.

The decision is not suppose to be only based on the write up, you also have to consider what you learnt from the character while playing the game. The write up is like a crash course and refresher.

So I agree, it is not that simple. But in the case of Samara, it is pretty clear from dialogue and write up, she ain't no good leader

[Cutlass Jack]

Okkomon wrote...

What if i don't trust Miranda (or any cerberus agent) to run anything (the sole survivor, it has a beef with cerberus)?

Is bringing your team out alive ever the main consideration for the 'sole survivor?' Especially if you're the Colonist kind. You'd be kind of used to losing everyone by now.

Anyway, use Garrus. No Cerberus there.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 18 février 2010 - 07:33 .

[ODST 3]

Samara's not even that good at combat. She's a powerful biotic but is not exceptionally effective, regardless. After all her years, I guess her strength just stopped increasing at some point because she isn't overly powerful. She only took out two mercs in her opening cutscene and couldn't beat her daughter without your help.

[eternalnightmare13]

Okkomon wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Okkomon wrote...

Again... Why is it automatically assumed that my motley crue would blindly go happy lucky with an ice queen **** of an cerberus agent, regardless of her description of an taqtican? And why should I? When playing spacer sole survivor?

 Because(and this is especially true if you have their loyalty) they trust Shepard's leadership and decisions.

What if i don't trust Miranda (or any cerberus agent) to run anything (the sole survivor, it has a beef with cerberus)?

USE SOMEONE ELSE! WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?   GARRUS! DUH DUH DUH DUH DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Modifié par eternalnightmare13, 18 février 2010 - 07:33 .

[T0paze]

Samara does beat her daugher without your help. Just don't choose the Paragon/Renegade option.
And she's a very good biotic, too - it's not her fault that biotics got nerfed in this game. Her Reave ability is one of the best biotic abilities, since it can be used against armor and barriers, unlike most powers.

Modifié par T0paze, 18 février 2010 - 07:35 .

[Okkomon]

Madecologist wrote...

Really, from Jacobs write up I did not see him as a good candidate though. It seemed his write up focused more on his military capabilites and tactical training. While Samara and Jack were like Biotic Gods. You did not need military training or tactics, you need the most power juice for that.
The decision is not suppose to be only based on the write up, you also have to consider what you learnt from the character while playing the game. The write up is like a crash course and refresher.
So I agree, it is not that simple. But in the case of Samara, it is pretty clear from dialogue and write up, she ain't no good leader

Well, as said, she has discipline, has a plenty of combat experience, worked with mercs as a team in past...i suppose i just should go with the railed cerberus brown nosing path all the for 'win'... *shrug*

Modifié par Okkomon, 18 février 2010 - 07:35 .

[DuffyMJ]

OP, I stand with you in solidarity. There is no reason Samara should be a poor fireteam leader and I have written on this relentlessly on this forum. I don't care what anyone says, there is no way she would be a poor fireteam leader, she has more experience than ANYONE. These people disgust me with their prejudice against Samara. It reminds me of people who said Obama could never be a leader because he had no "experience" as a governor or business CEO (as if his years studying and teaching law and working with communities and being in state government had nothing to do with leadership)



And not to belabor the point, but almost all the great folk heroes and leaders of history were what samara was (a knight/samurai): Tokugawa, El Cid, and more legendary figures like Sir Lancelot, Robin Hood... all were leaders and damn good ones.

[eternalnightmare13]

ODST 3 wrote...

Samara's not even that good at combat. She's a powerful biotic but is not exceptionally effective, regardless. After all her years, I guess her strength just stopped increasing at some point because she isn't overly powerful. She only took out two mercs in her opening cutscene and couldn't beat her daughter without your help.

The only help I gave her with her daughter is drawing her out of the club.  That's it.

[jklinders]

Okkomon wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Okkomon wrote...

Again... Why is it automatically assumed that my motley crue would blindly go happy lucky with an ice queen **** of an cerberus agent, regardless of her description of an taqtican? And why should I? When playing spacer sole survivor?

 Because(and this is especially true if you have their loyalty) they trust Shepard's leadership and decisions.

What if i don't trust Miranda (or any cerberus agent) to run anything (the sole survivor, it has a beef with cerberus)?

For Heaens' sake then choose Garrus. Your distrust of a character does not have any impact on their ability. Just use Garrus both times. Or just deal with the consequesnces of choosing someone else. Honestly this is not hard.

[Madecologist]

Okkomon wrote...

Well, as said, she has discipline, has a plenty of combat experience, worked with mercs as a team in past...i suppose i just should go with the railed cerberus brown nosing path all the for 'win'... *shrug*

You have another choice... Garrus. GARRUS!

[jklinders]

Okkomon wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Okkomon wrote...

Again... Why is it automatically assumed that my motley crue would blindly go happy lucky with an ice queen **** of an cerberus agent, regardless of her description of an taqtican? And why should I? When playing spacer sole survivor?

 Because(and this is especially true if you have their loyalty) they trust Shepard's leadership and decisions.

What if i don't trust Miranda (or any cerberus agent) to run anything (the sole survivor, it has a beef with cerberus)?

Then choose Garrus both times for fire team leader. It does not mean another character is going to magically develop a skill they do nt have just because yo udo not trust the choises offerred. Roleplay it, choose Garrus. If you insist on having Garrus in your team, then roleplay your desire to deal with the consequences.

you have 10 people of different skills to choose from, and the plot does not give the time to give a favoured character a correspondence course in small unit tactics.

[Okkomon]

jklinders wrote...

Okkomon wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Okkomon wrote...

Again... Why is it automatically assumed that my motley crue would blindly go happy lucky with an ice queen **** of an cerberus agent, regardless of her description of an taqtican? And why should I? When playing spacer sole survivor?

 Because(and this is especially true if you have their loyalty) they trust Shepard's leadership and decisions.

What if i don't trust Miranda (or any cerberus agent) to run anything (the sole survivor, it has a beef with cerberus)?

For Heaens' sake then choose Garrus. Your distrust of a character does not have any impact on their ability. Just use Garrus both times. Or just deal with the consequesnces of choosing someone else. Honestly this is not hard.

Garrus, the lone sniper ranger, the archangel with lost squad and issues due to his former squad, really?

(p.s. You must realize i can play the game with all happy and alive, it's not what this is about.)

Modifié par Okkomon, 18 février 2010 - 07:45 .

[T0paze]

Garrus seems a well-balanced choice. Maybe because the distrust of Cerberus is much more emphasized in this game than general xenophobia, which is pretty much non-existent on the Normandy (besides, Garrus commands some additional respect as part of Shepard's original team).

Modifié par T0paze, 18 février 2010 - 07:41 .

[Remaix]

Okkomon wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Okkomon wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Okkomon wrote...

Again... Why is it automatically assumed that my motley crue would blindly go happy lucky with an ice queen **** of an cerberus agent, regardless of her description of an taqtican? And why should I? When playing spacer sole survivor?

 Because(and this is especially true if you have their loyalty) they trust Shepard's leadership and decisions.

What if i don't trust Miranda (or any cerberus agent) to run anything (the sole survivor, it has a beef with cerberus)?

For Heaens' sake then choose Garrus. Your distrust of a character does not have any impact on their ability. Just use Garrus both times. Or just deal with the consequesnces of choosing someone else. Honestly this is not hard.

Garrus, the lone sniper ranger, the archangel with lost squad and issues due to his former squad, really
?

Yes. Garrus, the guy who led a pretty damn succesful team that was only killed when he wasn't there.

[DuffyMJ]

The fundamental problem with Miranda that seems impossible to beat into anyone's heads is that she DOES NOT command loyalty, in fact she and Jacob actually command outright dissent from the rest of the squad. Jack and Tali despise Cerberus... Jacob hates Thane... Zaeed boast about slaughtering Cerberus agents... Grunt doesn't really respect anyone but you everyone else is too "squishy"... What more evidence do you folks need to realize that Cerberus folks are 1000 times less qualified than Samara? Jacob's time in the alliance was spent ON !!!EDEN PRIME!!! (you know, the place where nothing happens...?) and he has a whopping two years of experience. Fantastic. Garrus was a police officer and former Turian common enlisted dude who helped you fight Saren, and then spent a whopping two years as a vigilante (a synonym for knight-errand, by the way, is vigilante...........) where he slowly attracted a dozen folks to join him, was a poor leader because most of the team died from his naivity and the other two who were left "died quickly" after the betrayal incident occurred.



I'm sorry, I know it hurts you all to hear negative things about your precious garrus miranda and jacob, but they simply aren't good leadership skillsets.

[ODST 3]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

ODST 3 wrote...

Samara's not even that good at combat. She's a powerful biotic but is not exceptionally effective, regardless. After all her years, I guess her strength just stopped increasing at some point because she isn't overly powerful. She only took out two mercs in her opening cutscene and couldn't beat her daughter without your help.

The only help I gave her with her daughter is drawing her out of the club.  That's it.

What? What about when they're in a standoff and you have to choose which one to help?

[Madecologist]

Also, Samara does not have team leadership skills. She even admits it herself, she is always alone. She herself says this!

Experience does not mean team leading experience. Being the best fighter does not make you the best commander. This is not Samara hate, heck I reconised Samara fans saying she is not a good leader. I actually like her a lot. Even us say she is not a good leader. Liking and being a fan does not mean you have blind faith and turn a blind eye to their character flaws. Big difference.

I do not understand why people make this connection that having experience and being a highly trained warrior monks makes you automatically a good leader. Leadership is a skill and quality unique to certain people.

[Legbiter]

Remaix wrote...

Yes. Garrus, the guy who led a pretty damn succesful team that was only killed when he wasn't there.

Precisely.

[jklinders]

Comparing Samara to a knight is pushing it. knights did not travel alone, they had a small group of pages and squires tending their gear and lead them as well through their traing to be knights themselves.



Fact is whether you like it or not there is nothing in Samara's background to indicate she was ever in a leadership position. Samurai, knight same thing, they are minor nobility, and trained from birth to be battlefield leaders. justicars and knights =apples and oranges.

[Legbiter]

DuffyMJ wrote...

The fundamental problem with Miranda that seems impossible to beat into anyone's heads is that she DOES NOT command loyalty, in fact she and Jacob actually command outright dissent from the rest of the squad. Jack and Tali despise Cerberus... Jacob hates Thane... Zaeed boast about slaughtering Cerberus agents... Grunt doesn't really respect anyone but you everyone else is too "squishy"... What more evidence do you folks need to realize that Cerberus folks are 1000 times less qualified than Samara? Jacob's time in the alliance was spent ON !!!EDEN PRIME!!! (you know, the place where nothing happens...?) and he has a whopping two years of experience. Fantastic. Garrus was a police officer and former Turian common enlisted dude who helped you fight Saren, and then spent a whopping two years as a vigilante (a synonym for knight-errand, by the way, is vigilante...........) where he slowly attracted a dozen folks to join him, was a poor leader because most of the team died from his naivity and the other two who were left "died quickly" after the betrayal incident occurred.

I'm sorry, I know it hurts you all to hear negative things about your precious garrus miranda and jacob, but they simply aren't good leadership skillsets.

You failed the Intelligence Test too didn't you?

[DuffyMJ]

Madecologist wrote...

Also, Samara does not have team leadership skills. She even admits it herself, she is always alone. She herself says this!
Experience does not mean team leading experience. Being the best fighter does not make you the best commander. This is not Samara hate, heck I reconised Samara fans saying she is not a good leader. I actually like her a lot. Even us say she is not a good leader. Liking and being a fan does not mean you have blind faith and turn a blind eye to their character flaws. Big difference.
I do not understand why people make this connection that having experience and being a highly trained warrior monks makes you automatically a good leader. Leadership is a skill and quality unique to certain people.

It's called humility.  Humanitarians are the first to say they don't do enough.  Soldiers are the first to say they aren't heroes.  Priests and monks are the first to say they aren't faithful enough.  Good people are the first to say they could be better.

[Taritu]

Didn't have a problem with Miranda not being a good leader.



The idea that Zaeed could not manage covering fire, however, struck me as ridiculous.

[beermilk]

Okkomon wrote...

What if i don't trust Miranda (or any cerberus agent) to run anything (the sole survivor, it has a beef with cerberus)?

 Maybe you could record a whiny Wilson monologue. That might help. Be sure to work the "uncaring ice queen" into every sentence of the monologue as much as possible.

[Aradace]

Okkomon wrote...

Yeah, we may argue. Hundreds of years of combat experience including understanding tactiques to overcome her enemies over all those years, not to mention uber biotic skills, plus all that samurai stuff, if she is so aware of human history and all i might of guessed she has also heard of Sun Zhu and some tactis overall? This all means she is a failure as a firesquad lead as in juxtapositioned to forexample Jacob? Sure, Samara is a loner by choice of 'career' but not recless like the download guy (can't even remember his name).  Jacob, is basically just a merc himself and former alliance pawn, annd he even suggests to put himself on a mission (the ducts) that he doesn't even has the skills to carry out.

...Oh well, legion took the hit on my maiden playtrough, and i suppose he has 'more lives than nine' being a 'legion'.

What you fail to see is that she's spent those centuries ALONE...She's basically a soloer lol.  These are little minute details that if you actually listen to their dialog instead of staring at her ****** you might catch