211 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

padaE wrote...
for some reason I thought you were talking about Vanguard and Soldiers. 

I was talking about Vanguards. Last time I checked they had Inciendiary ammo, but no adrenaline rush. 

[newcomplex]

padaE wrote...

wow...

Alright...

Why are you getting a special power that results in 10% upgrade for a skill you already have?   The over time effect of inciendary ammo balances itself out with the stopping of regen (when some of the enemies that are most effected by it, vorcha and krogan, have very large regen), so your getting 10% more damage.

Moreover, on the soldier, getting AP ammo will not only invalidate half your skills, but make you dump points on nothing after level 26.   

Why are you getting a power that is provably less effective against a higher percentage of enemies in the game then warp ammo?

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So, what you are asking is that why AP Ammo instead of Warp ammo? Well, thats already answered in the topic but, well, I'll say it again.
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AP Ammo does more damage than Warp Ammo, however the later does bonus damage to Barriers.
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What happens is that is better to do more damage to armor and healthy than do less damage in both + barrier. That is beacuse the strongest enemys have much more armor and healthy than barriers. Also, its very easy to take down a barrier, even with AP ammo. I never faced an enemy that I needed badly take its barriers down. 
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About the AP ammo being kind of useless for both soldiers and vanguards, I agree. Its kind of useless, what happens is that the other skills are even less useful. 

First of all, statements like "I never faced an enemy that I needed badly take its barriers down" is not only grammatically nonsensical, but also completely retarded once again.

I could make the same statements like "As an infiltrator, my sniper rifle does 2x damage against armor, and no extra damage to barriers" or "As an adept, warp ammo is far more reliable, because it does extra
damage against two sheild types, because using biotics is far more
efficient once I get them down to health"

In fact, those would be MUCH MORE VALID because I gave a frame of reference, and logic behind them.

Nor, can you prove the strongest enemies have "much more health and armor then barriers".  

Armor itself is the most easily damage barrier.

The following powers do extra damage against armor:    Inferno Grenade, Incinerate, Warp, Reave, Inciendary ammo.

 Not only do you fail to give a frame of reference, but you also make no attemtps at logic beyond "cuz I said so"

Your basing your entire argument on your specific, BIASED experience, instead of fact.    I'm pretty fuking sure you haven't played all six classes through insanity,

Second


warp ammo is provably superior.    Your doing 50% more damage against collectors with it, and 35% more with AP ammo.    Collectors are the predominant endgame threat.   Moreover, the 35% you do do is on health, which is susceptable to CC through tech, biotics, or physical powers.

In order to justify the 15% lost damage over warp armor on biotic enemies, for a 20% gain on sheilded enemies, their needs to be the 75% amount of enemies fought in the game which have armor.    Were going by frequency and difficulty, not by sheer amount.    In the end, your getting Blood Pack, Mechs, and Husks as the predominant source of this damage.     While warp ammo is markedly superior on collectors and eclipse mercs.    Collectors are your main enemy throughout the game, while the entirety of Illium is a fight against eclipse.

No matter how you look at this, their is no way armor occurs more frequently the barriers more then 75% of the time.   The exact difference can vary a lot, from 25% less to 25% more, but their is no possible, plausible way youcan hit 75% more armored enemies.

Finally, to say that barriers are useless on soldiers is fuking stupid.    Realize that every second you are able to continue firing a Revenant, on medium range, fully upgraded, is an additional 800 damage.     Max barrier would allow you to tank for at least a couple seconds, lets say 5.     You've done an extra 4000 damage.    

Modifié par newcomplex, 18 février 2010 - 11:53 .

[Athenau]

 

AP armor isn't good for ANYTHING.    In fact, any ammo is more or less sub-optimal on classes with powers already.    AP ammo yeilds LITERALLY ONLY 10% increase in damage over inciendary ammo, something vanguards and soldiers ALREADY HAVE.    And it doesn't stop health regen, nor does it stun organic enemies.  

You are an imbecile.  Incendiary ammo is only a 60% instant buff vs armor.  It's a 20%_ DOT_ vs health. AP ammo is 70% _for every shot_. You can take your short duration CC with incendiary.  I'd much rather kill them outright.

Furthermore, on insanity, probably half your enemies or more have armor, and all the most dangerous ones do.     Krogan, vorcha, klixen, varren, EVERY mech, husks (which always come in large numbers), scions, praetorians, EVERY special character and miniboss...

On the other hand,  where the hell do you see barriers?  Eclipse mercs, which pretty much appear only on Illium, and Collectors, but every time you face off against collectors you also encounter lots of armor (husks, scion, harbinger)  so it's a wash.

Finally, In cases where enemies have both armor and shields/barriers, the armor is almost always the toughest defense layer.  

So yeah, pick AP ammo if you want to do the most damage to the most common and most potent defense type in the game, how retarded.

 

 Max barrier would allow you to tank for at least a couple seconds, lets say 5.     You've done an extra 4000 damage.     

Lolwut?  "Lets pull a completely nonsensical number out of my ass" is more like it.   Maxed barrier doubles your base shield.  You know how long shields last on insanity?  It sure as hell isn't five seconds.

Modifié par Athenau, 19 février 2010 - 12:08 .

[padaE]

JaegerBane wrote...

padaE wrote...
for some reason I thought you were talking about Vanguard and Soldiers. 

I was talking about Vanguards. Last time I checked they had Inciendiary ammo, but no adrenaline rush. 

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But I do said about rushing towards the enemy.  I guess you missed it.
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Adrenaline Rush for Soldeir. Charge for Vanguard.

[padaE]

Finally, to say that barriers are useless on soldiers is fuking stupid.    Realize that every second you are able to continue firing a Revenant, on medium range, fully upgraded, is an additional 800 damage.     Max barrier would allow you to tank for at least a couple seconds, lets say 5.     You've done an extra 4000 damage.    

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I'm just taking this part cause I won't say the same thing again... again.
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What happens to soldier is that instead of using Barrier, you could use Adrenaline Rush more the one time, making it (barrier powers) useless. 

[newcomplex]

padaE wrote...

Finally, to say that barriers are useless on soldiers is fuking stupid.    Realize that every second you are able to continue firing a Revenant, on medium range, fully upgraded, is an additional 800 damage.     Max barrier would allow you to tank for at least a couple seconds, lets say 5.     You've done an extra 4000 damage.    

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I'm just taking this part cause I won't say the same thing again... again.
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What happens to soldier is that instead of using Barrier, you could use Adrenaline Rush more the one time, making it (barrier powers) useless. 

Using Adrenaline rush while you are at 10% health hiding behind did nothing.     Also, Barrier can be used premptively.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 19 février 2010 - 12:13 .

[Atmosfear3]

The bonus damage against targets in health shouldn't be ignored. More damage to outright kill a target is more useful than CCing. I'd rather have some overkill damage than have to waste more shots against a tough target.

[Athenau]

Yeah, probably the single most common enemy are blue suns mercs which are health + shields, and warp ammo does squat to shields, but AP ammo still does the extra +20% damage to health.

Modifié par Athenau, 19 février 2010 - 12:15 .

[DirewolfX]

@newcomplex: Barrier skills are really weak. On insanity they last less than a second against a lone vorcha (sinosleep did some tests, go search for their videos on this forum). And with the long (12 sec) cooldown, as a soldier you'd be better off using that time on (*gasp*) another Adrenaline Rush! Inferno ammo is useless against synthetics health, only organics.

Please stop with the insults, though. It's not necessary to call someone stupid or retarded because they disagree with you on an internet forum. Oh nevermind, it is. Carry on.



Anyway, AP Ammo is nice, but it certainly isn't the 'best' skill.



Soldier: Not sure what you'd pick. Seems like spamming Adrenaline Rush is the best tactic, so you'd want an ammo power. I say warp ammo for a bonus against barriers, since you already have inferno rounds for armor.



Infiltrator: Barriers suck, get warp ammo. You have disruptor for shields/synthetics and incinerate for armor.



Vanguard: Don't need a bonus power. I'm playing mine with AP now, but I'm really thinking about switching to Inferno rounds and getting something with more utility for when I can't charge.



Engineer: Warp ammo for barriers. Already have incinerate for armor.



Sentinel: Do sentinels really need anything? Not sure what I'd pick.



Adept: Energy Drain for shields. Heavy warp is already good enough for armor and anything on health is already dead to an adept.

[padaE]

newcomplex wrote...

padaE wrote...

Finally, to say that barriers are useless on soldiers is fuking stupid.    Realize that every second you are able to continue firing a Revenant, on medium range, fully upgraded, is an additional 800 damage.     Max barrier would allow you to tank for at least a couple seconds, lets say 5.     You've done an extra 4000 damage.    

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I'm just taking this part cause I won't say the same thing again... again.
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What happens to soldier is that instead of using Barrier, you could use Adrenaline Rush more the one time, making it (barrier powers) useless. 

Using Adrenaline rush while you are at 10% health hiding behind did nothing.     Also, Barrier can be used premptively.   

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Yes, but to reach 10% you have to take a lot of damage, just dont take it. Also, AR gives you 50% damage protection in its last stage.
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And having a skill such a barrier to use it after battles isn't good enough. 

[newcomplex]

Athenau wrote...

 
You are an imbecile.  Incendiary ammo is only a 60% instant buff vs armor.  It's a 20%_ DOT_ vs health. AP ammo is 70% _for every shot_. You can take your short duration CC with incendiary.  I'd much rather kill them outright.

Uh...the in game discription makes no mention of that.    Even if that is true, its irrelevent, warp would still be better.

Furthermore, on insanity, probably half your enemies or more have armor, and all the most dangerous ones do.     Krogan, vorcha, klixen, varren, EVERY mech, husks (which always come in large numbers), scions, praetorians, EVERY special character and miniboss...

On the other hand,  where the hell do you see barriers?  Eclipse mercs, which pretty much appear only on Illium, and Collectors, but every time you face off against collectors you also encounter lots of armor (husks, scion, harbinger)  so it's a wash.

So stupid.    First of all Klixen and Varren are not "the most dangerous ones", their unarguably the easiest.     Blood pack is the least encountered merc band, encountered in half of omega, while tuchanka is another place great for armor.   Their happen to be exactly eight krogan on where you recruit grunt.     Warp ammo is arguably better for krogan and blood pack, because it stops regen.   Outside of that, their are exactly one sidequest where blood pack is the main enemy.     Their are two, full length combat missions that involve eclipse, and two side quests.    Mechs are the easiest gun wielding enemy in the game, and are found sparsed thoughout eclipse and blue suns for the most part.

Collectors are really unarguably the hardest enemy in the game.    You fight them the most, perhaps second to blue suns, but are far harder.    Certainly the most within the main plot.    Harbringers have equal amounts armor and barriers, with no health, making warp ammo unarguably better.    

When you fight collectors, their are few geth spawns in the level.    Their are two in horizon, once on collector ship (twice, but the first includes TWO husks, wouldn't count that), and twice on the final mission.    Plus, husks have incredibly low armor (less then 200, try using something like a level incinerate on them), and use rush tactics, where frost or inciendary ammo is far better.     That leaves scions.    Which while dangerous, are encountered rarely.    Praetorians, all and all, have only 25% more armor then biotic barriers.

Finally, In cases where enemies have both armor and shields/barriers, the armor is almost always the toughest defense layer.  

Provably False.    They are nearly identical.    Test this out on a harbringer.    Requires 4 warps to take down barriers, and 4 warps to take down armor.    In fact, armor is the most easiest counterest special armor, with seven skills doing additional damage to it.    Their are only three skills that do damage to barriers, and two of them are your special skill, warp ammo and reave.

Lolwut?  "Lets pull a completely nonsensical number out of my ass" is more like it.   Maxed barrier doubles your base shield.  You know how long shields last on insanity?  It sure as hell isn't five seconds.

Opps, I was thinking of something I said in another thread which I mathematically proved, but it was a point blank damage projection.    Here is a more accurate projection.     215 base deeps.    330 after upgrades.     90% accuracy after upgrade more or less, so you get 300 dps.    1.2 damage average.     1.25 range modification (medium).   20% at randomly hitting head, think thats fair enough, or 1.2 more damage.   

540 DPS.   Or 2000 damage after four seconds.   

Shooting at point blank to the head does ~2000 dps, my mistake.         

Modifié par newcomplex, 19 février 2010 - 12:59 .

[sinosleep]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

The bonus damage against targets in health shouldn't be ignored. More damage to outright kill a target is more useful than CCing. I'd rather have some overkill damage than have to waste more shots against a tough target.

That all depends on 1.) what you are shooting and 2.) what weapon you are using. Personally, I prefer to use the scimitar shotgun over the evi or claymore. Even with AP ammo, you aren't going to be one shotting much of anything with the scimitar. Since you are going to be taking multiple shots any way, you are far better off with the cc level 4 inferno ammo provides. For instance on more than one occasion I have charged a 2 or 3 grouped enemies, and upon shooting the first have set all 3 on fire. Now, while those guys are on fire, and unable to attack me, I still have 7 shots left before I need to reload. Sure, it might take me 3 shots per guy instead of 2, but there's no way you are going to take less damage than me while switching targets since mine are on fire and yours are actively shooting you. 

[newcomplex]

padaE wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

padaE wrote...

Finally, to say that barriers are useless on soldiers is fuking stupid.    Realize that every second you are able to continue firing a Revenant, on medium range, fully upgraded, is an additional 800 damage.     Max barrier would allow you to tank for at least a couple seconds, lets say 5.     You've done an extra 4000 damage.    

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I'm just taking this part cause I won't say the same thing again... again.
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What happens to soldier is that instead of using Barrier, you could use Adrenaline Rush more the one time, making it (barrier powers) useless. 

Using Adrenaline rush while you are at 10% health hiding behind did nothing.     Also, Barrier can be used premptively.   

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Yes, but to reach 10% you have to take a lot of damage, just dont take it. Also, AR gives you 50% damage protection in its last stage.
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And having a skill such a barrier to use it after battles isn't good enough. 

Preemptive means before battles bro.

10% was a random number.    10% and 80% mean the same thing.      What I mean is at a certain point, your going to have to stop attacking and wait for sheilds to regenerate.    Even if this doesn't happen, it means you need to finish the fight with barrier with sheilds still up for it to have no effect.      During that time, you deal no damage.    Sheilds regenerate in six seconds after taking no damage to health.    That means barriers give you additional time to fire.    Revenant, as previously established, does 500+ DPS accounting for accuracy at medium range.      

And to the other smartass who says that "A vorcha takes downs sheilds in a second on insanity"...

Yes, it does, if you stand around like an idiot.      Why on earth would you be doing that?    

[rumination888]

If people think armor is the toughest layer on a shield/barrier + armor + health enemy then they're probably trying to kill it with an SMG. I bet people wouldn't get that idea if the Carnifrex had more ammo and they used it more often.
A Carnifrex without AP ammo will even beat a Tempest with AP ammo against armor.

Anyways, aside from Praetorians, Shield/Barriers are harder to take down on multi-layered enemies.

[sinosleep]

newcomplex wrote...
Yes, it does, if you stand around like an idiot.      Why on earth would you be doing that?    

And how often do you fight one guy at a time? You're going to get a second or two at absolute most out of while fighting groups, and if you are only fighting one at a time you shouldn't need it any way. A vanguard can get shields as high as 800+ and even THOSE are blasted away in normal play in under 3 seconds when facing groups. A standard barrier only gets to around 500. If you seriously think that a barrier is going to last you a significant amount of time on insanity while fighting more than one mob I pray for you.

[padaE]

I wrote after but I meant before.

[TekFanX]

I got to say that I just played Sentinels and one soldier-playthrough until now.

For soldiers I took the inferno-grenade.

Just for the reason of taking down enemies behind a cover easily.

With incendary I wouldn't need AP for direct damage on a Soldier.



For the Sentinel: I totally agree with the OP.

Why?

Because it pretty much does what the sentinel is meant for, if you use it with an AR.

The AR shreds down Shields and barriers, the AP is just the thing to muck up against the Armored enemies if Warp is in cooldown.

Since the Tech-Armor makes the sentinel able to take some more punch, it's pretty much the thing to tank if you use it with the capacitor-chestplate.

If the shield is on full power again and the powers aren't loaded again, AP is just the thing to do what you can't with the powers because of their cooldown.

I tried the Warp-Ammo too with maxed biotic upgrades, but have to say the AP just was faster in finishing most enemies.

Also I don't see what else could be usefull for the Sentinel. The sentinel has already the powers to take down barriers and shields, a rapid-fire-weapon working while the powers are reloaded.

Warp-Biotic is good against armor but also needs cooldown I can bridge with the AP-AR.

-The rare opportunity to fight against enemies without protection doesn't quite ratify the fun-powers like Slam. Especially if you think about the cooldown these powers need.

-The inferno-grenade is quite useless since you got warp.

-The shield-recharge of tali is nice for fast recharge of the shields, but I don't see it's use with it's own cooldown and the capacitor-plates that lessen the shield-recharge-off-time.

-Barriers, Geth-shields or fortification: Tried it...wasn't that usefull with the tech-armor already doing the job.

-Never tried the Neural-Shock, but didn't see the reason with reave or domination aviable.

-Reave was never my choice, since I build the whole char for shields. Barely got a point where I thought of a hp-transfer as usefull.

-Dominate: No option, I play paragon-chars to it's best, have no fun at playing renegade.

-Shredder-Ammo wasn't a choice for me, since I got Throw for weaker enemies, combined with cryo.

So I tried WA and AP for the game and came to the conclusion that AP was best for it.



Don't get me wrong, I'd love to use Slam or others of those powers, but AP turned out to smoothen the time between the cooldowns. And the cooldown is the worst thing about the powers in my oppinion.

[Looy]

Soldier: Nope, defensive powers are just as useful and will often save you, rather than just marginally increasing the rate that you drop enemies.

Infiltrator: Agree

Engy: Disagree, Shield Boost is a decent choice.

Adept: Disagree, Barrier is also decent.

Sentinel: Can make use of most bonus powers in one way or another.

Vanguard: Agree, Vanguards generally only use charge most of the time anyway.

Modifié par Looy, 19 février 2010 - 01:05 .

[newcomplex]

sinosleep wrote...

newcomplex wrote...
Yes, it does, if you stand around like an idiot.      Why on earth would you be doing that?    

And how often do you fight one guy at a time? You're going to get a second or two at absolute most out of while fighting groups, and if you are only fighting one at a time you shouldn't need it any way. A vanguard can get shields as high as 800+ and even THOSE are blasted away in normal play in under 3 seconds when facing groups. A standard barrier only gets to around 500. If you seriously think that a barrier is going to last you a significant amount of time on insanity while fighting more than one mob I pray for you.

Thats not what I mean.    Think of it this way.    Your playing a soldier, with a uberimba revenant.    Give me a time it takes once your forced into cover.    Doesn't matter.   Now, you would have to wait 6 seconds before you can do anything.   

Use barrier.

You now went from zero sheilds, and say, 50% health, to ~500 sheilds.    Now, your behind cover with 500 sheilds and 50% health.    Go shoot something and get your sheilds lowish within six seconds.    Sheilds regen again.    Shoot more stuff.    Adren rush.     Rinse and repeat.    If you shoot for three out of the six seconds, and I honestly can't imagine how you would fail at that, unless someone flanks you or a harbringer blows you out of cover, you've done an extra 1500 damage.    AP ammo 35% better against sheilds over the soldiers disruptor and ~10%(or 30%, if you believe that other guy) against armor, and 5% better against biotics (10%).     With an average of 16% more damage, your not going to be getting better then the barriers +1500 damage.     If you use barrier once every 30 seconds (likely), you need to be shooting with your 500 dps for over 1/2 of the time to get more damage.   Which is something you yourself said can't be done.    

Then your ignoring the fact that a lot of the time, instantly getting 500 hp will save you from dieing.    Not everything is mathematical.

Modifié par newcomplex, 19 février 2010 - 01:18 .

[Roxlimn]

newcomplex:



Collectors aren't actually the most common enemy in the game. You only encounter them on three missions.



That said, Barrier may be the most common type of defense, but if it is, that's probably because of Eclipse mercs adding to the incidence of Barrier defenses. Of course, Blue Suns are also a very common enemy type and those have Shields.

[rumination888]

sinosleep wrote...

And how often do you fight one guy at a time? You're going to get a second or two at absolute most out of while fighting groups, and if you are only fighting one at a time you shouldn't need it any way. A vanguard can get shields as high as 800+ and even THOSE are blasted away in normal play in under 3 seconds when facing groups. A standard barrier only gets to around 500. If you seriously think that a barrier is going to last you a significant amount of time on insanity while fighting more than one mob I pray for you.

1 second is often all it takes to live or die. I'm pretty sure we went over this, but I'd rather play like a Vanguard and live, than shoot from afar against large packs of enemies. Any ability that promotes a class' uniqueness is, from my perspective, their best bonus power.

[newcomplex]

Roxlimn wrote...

newcomplex:

Collectors aren't actually the most common enemy in the game. You only encounter them on three missions.

That said, Barrier may be the most common type of defense, but if it is, that's probably because of Eclipse mercs adding to the incidence of Barrier defenses. Of course, Blue Suns are also a very common enemy type and those have Shields.

Of course not.    But throughout my playthroughs, its those missions have have given me the most trouble .    I don't think anyone would disagree that the collectors missions as a whole, are the hardest.    Even when your fighting scions on them, half of times, your not targeting scions first, your burning down collectors then switching to scions.   

[Athenau]

 

Uh...the in game discription makes no mention of that.    Even if that is true, its irrelevent, warp would still be better.

The in-game description doesn't mention that the DOT is instant against armor either.  And, since you appear to be terminally dense, let me remind you that you were claiming that AP ammo is pointless because incendiary was almost as damaging.

It isn't.   Not even close.

So stupid.  

Now, now, play nice.  I'm sure mommy and daddy will let you wear the big boy pants when you stop eating paint chips and scaring the neighbors.

 First of all Klixen and Varren are not "the most dangerous ones", their unarguably the easiest.     Blood pack is the least encountered merc band, encountered in half of omega, while tuchanka is another place great for armor.   Their happen to be exactly eight krogan on where you recruit grunt.     Warp ammo is arguably better for krogan and blood pack, because it stops regen.   Outside of that, their are exactly one sidequest where blood pack is the main enemy.     Their are two, full length combat missions that involve eclipse, and two side quests.

You keep fixating on "blood pack" as if that's relevant.     Yeah, all the blood pack have armor, and the most dangerous enemies you encounter on Omega (krogans) have lots of it.    AP ammo is better there (since when does warp ammo stop regeneration, that's warp, not warp ammo).  It's also better than warp ammo against EVERY OTHER ENEMY without a barrier, because it does more damage to health as well.

How are you ignoring the fact that the most 

DANGEROUS ENEMY AND COMMONLY FOUGHT ENEMY IN THE GAME.

The collectors, use barriers?    

Are you retarded?  No, wait, don't answer, that was a rhetorical question.  

There are a whopping _four_ collector missions (horizon, collector ship, retrieve IFF, final assault).  And retrieve IFF  is all husks + scions so that doesn't even count.  And in the other missions you're dividing your time between fighting collectors and barrier-less enemies.

_This_ constitutes "the most commonly fought enemy in the game"?  Really? 

Furthermore, the collectors themselves are not terribly threatening.  A drone is only incrementally more dangerous than a grunt mercenary, guardians are more annoying, but not any more potent offensively, and assassins about as bad as a merc heavy weapons guy (actually less, since heavy weapons  mercs can stunlock you with their missile launchers).

False.    They are nearly identical.    Test this out on a harbringer.    Requires 4 warps to take down sheilds, and 4 warps to take down armor.    In fact, armor is the most easiest counterest special armor, with seven skills doing additional damage to it.

I'll have to test, but that hasn't been my in game experience, though that could be confirmation bias talking.  It doesn't affect the main thrust of my argument in any case.

Also, since 1.  there's a universal cooldown, and 2.  you can only carry two squadmates, the number of abilities damaging armor is irrelevant.  You're limited to three anti-armor/barrier powers, more doesn't help

 
Opps, I was thinking of something I said in another thread which I mathematically proved, but it was a point blank damage projection.    Here is a more accurate projection.     215 base deeps.    330 after upgrades.     90% accuracy after upgrade more or less, so you get 300 dps.    1.2 damage average.     1.25 range modification (medium).   20% at randomly hitting head, think thats fair enough, or 1.2 more damage.    

540 DPS.   Or 2000 damage after four seconds.    

Shooting at point blank to the head does ~2000 dps, my mistake.        

This is the stupidest thing you've said so far.  Seriously, your whole argument is basically that "barrier is good because I can do dps for x extra seconds while eating bullets to the face"?  Do you not realize that barrier has a 12 second cooldown which locks out the most amazing combat skill in the game, adrenaline rush.   I mean, really, there is an argument for barrier as a "get out of jail" button, but claiming it boosts your overall dps is just god damn idiotic.

Modifié par Athenau, 19 février 2010 - 01:24 .

[Roxlimn]

newcomplex:



The missions I found challenging were Horizon, ...well, actually it was mostly just Horizon, and much of it was the double Scions. The waves that came after weren't all that challenging - just need the proper positioning.



The suicide run was downright easy, even after I bumped it up to Insanity on a save just to see what all the fuss was about. That leaves the Disable Collector Vessel, and if I recall correctly, that's the mission where you get the Widow, or get a powerful standard gun as an non-gun class, while verging on about level 14 or so (maybe 16). That's the point in which Insanity actually becomes easy - because you have enough points to distribute and have powers that one-shot defenses.



For Hardcore, I'd put the threshold level at 10-12.



The missions that usually give me the most trouble are usually early missions of all stripes. Once you get enough upgrades and levels, it's all easy.

[Kurupt87]

not the best for vg, if you're using claymore you're only adding to overkill, if you're using scim then you want the inferno aoe cc definitely.

area reave is good to soften up before you go in

1 pt in barrier for when you cant charge (barrier over gsb/fort because cd/duration modifiers)

slam because it does gd dmg and can cc for 8s or so (and you dont have to waste points in shockwave to get pull which this replaces) and has a rly short cd like pull

dominate useful as the dominated enemy draws all fire



probably another one or two that fill a role but they are the best ones i can think of for vg.