348 réponses à ce sujet

[TJSolo]

Ecael wrote...
So, having decent weapons and armor is optional? Maybe on the lowest difficulty. How is that fun?

You can get a lot of your necessary upgrades for Shepard with the Long Service bonus and ME1 import bonus. You don't need triple Colossus X/Battlemaster armor and Spectre weapons with the best weapon mods in every single slot for every character to 'complete' the game in Mass Effect 1, nor do you need all the upgrades in Mass Effect 2. Neither of those carry over into the next game.

If you are talking about upgrades not carrying over, it is a bug not a feature.

That was a case of reviewer trends. A reviewer trend is when they repeat
each other out of peer pressure. Since most reviewers don't play all
games, they just take hearsay and repeat it. In the case of ME, bashing
the elevators and the Mako became something "everybody knew".

Sounds like you're describing most unsatisfied forumites, not reviewers.

Most forumites speak their opinion based on their personal experiences. ME2 is only a finnite product with a finnite amount of things that can be said without repetition.
While there are reviewers that don't access all games in time for their publications but will borrow the general idea about a game for their review.

Modifié par TJSolo, 26 avril 2010 - 10:08 .

[massive_effect]

Ecael wrote...

You can get a lot of your necessary upgrades for Shepard with the Long
Service bonus and ME1 import bonus. You don't need triple Colossus
X/Battlemaster armor and Spectre weapons with the best weapon mods in
every single slot for every character to 'complete' the game in Mass
Effect 1, nor do you need all the upgrades in Mass Effect 2. Neither of
those carry over into the next game.

Video games are not about "needs", but "wants".

Why would a game designer make a weapon upgrade with the intent that the player didn't need it?

With your argument, you don't need to play the game in the first place. Just stare at the Xbox 360 dash for a few hours a day.

[Ecael]

TJSolo wrote...

Ecael wrote...
You can get a lot of your necessary upgrades for Shepard with the Long Service bonus and ME1 import bonus. You don't need triple Colossus X/Battlemaster armor and Spectre weapons with the best weapon mods in every single slot for every character to 'complete' the game in Mass Effect 1, nor do you need all the upgrades in Mass Effect 2. Neither of those carry over into the next game.

If you are talking about upgrades not carrying over, it is a bug not a feature.

Carrying over into the next game - as in, Mass Effect 3 instead of a New Game+. New Game+ was just tacked on at the last minute anyway.

Most forumites speak their opinion based on their personal experiences. ME2 is only a finnite product with a finnite amount of things that can be said without repetition.

While there are reviewers that don't access all games in time for their publications but will borrow the general idea about a game for their review.

Reviewers still have a massive list of sources to draw comparisons from between games -- even moreso than many gamers (and especially gamers who are loyal or non-loyal enough to a game to spend time talking about it). After all, their job is to play and review as many games as possible, rather delve into critiquing a specific game.

At the same time, most consumers will believe a large group of credible reviewers instead of a group of players making their opinions heard on a forum. It is only logical for EA/BioWare cater the former group than the latter.

[Ecael]

massive_effect wrote...

Video games are not about "needs", but "wants".

Why would a game designer make a weapon upgrade with the intent that the player didn't need it?

With your argument, you don't need to play the game in the first place. Just stare at the Xbox 360 dash for a few hours a day.

Why would a game designer make an inventory with many items that a player will never use? Or include the option to play as 6 different classes with several different skills?

Simply put, it is to give the player a sense of freedom in customizing how they play their game.

On Insanity, the real upgrades you need are the ones that affect your Shepard the most. Collecting and hoarding everything available in a game is more about giving in to a compulsion instead of actually "wanting" only the necessary things.

[TJSolo]

Ecael wrote...

Carrying over into the next game - as in, Mass Effect 3 instead of a New Game+. New Game+ was just tacked on at the last minute anyway.

okay.

Reviewers still have a massive list of sources to draw comparisons from between games -- even moreso than many gamers (and especially gamers who are loyal or non-loyal enough to a game to spend time talking about it). After all, their job is to play and review as many games as possible, rather delve into critiquing a specific game.

At the same time, most consumers will believe a large group of credible reviewers instead of a group of players making their opinions heard on a forum. It is only logical for EA/BioWare cater the former group than the latter.

In the scope of consumer products; how can someone be non-loyal. If I buy something, it doesn't mean I am non-loyal to the product I didn't buy. If I buy something and give feedback about it, negative/positive/neutral, doesn't mean I am non-loyal.

Reviewers opinions of games have no higher regard then the average game store employee. As a reviewer they have access to more pre-street date material but once a game is out with the public their prior knowledge is moot because general concensus will become more relavent factor.

At least for the people I know, the opinions other gamers co-workers, friends, family and the like are more important then any review when it comes to games a prospective buyer is on the fence about. Reading a well written non-bias article pales when a friend says "Stop your moaning and get the damn game. I like it and you know you will too." after being in a store for 30mins debating about what game to get.

[massive_effect]

Ecael wrote...
On Insanity, the real upgrades you need are the ones that affect your Shepard the most. Collecting and hoarding everything available in a game is more about giving in to a compulsion instead of actually "wanting" only the necessary things.

On a first play, you don't know that. It's true on successive plays, you learn that you don't need all upgrades. But, it is a painful lesson.

[Ecael]

TJSolo wrote...

In the scope of consumer products; how can someone be non-loyal. If I buy something, it doesn't mean I am non-loyal to the product I didn't buy. If I buy something and give feedback about it, negative/positive/neutral, doesn't mean I am non-loyal.

Reviewers opinions of games have no higher regard then the average game store employee. As a reviewer they have access to more pre-street date material but once a game is out with the public their prior knowledge is moot because general concensus will become more relavent factor.

At least for the people I know, the opinions other gamers co-workers, friends, family and the like are more important then any review when it comes to games a prospective buyer is on the fence about. Reading a well written non-bias article pales when a friend says "Stop your moaning and get the damn game. I like it and you know you will too." after being in a store for 30mins debating about what game to get.

I didn't use the right term there with "non-loyal" (was drawing a blank).

Anyway, I would say that bad word of mouth is not nearly as effective as good, because it's more difficult to form an opinion on something that you've been convinced out of buying. On the other hand, good word of mouth will spread if more and more people think a product is great; they will then buy it to see for themselves -- and the cycle continues.

Even if it does have an influence on a few players, it doesn't stop EA from only looking at numbers:

http://seekingalpha....call-transcript

We also just shipped Mass Effect 2, when the Metacritic rating of 96, one of highest related games ever released on the Xbox 360. EA as clearly and quality leader among multi platform publishers, I believe this is a significant driver in effect that EA is game share fiscal year to date.

Sales figures and game review aggregate scores are the key numbers that they like to see as high as possible.

Modifié par Ecael, 27 avril 2010 - 02:15 .

[badkenbad]

Hmm... recent discussion here gives me an idea. I'm thinking a no-upgrades Insanity run is in order.

I agree with massive_effect. It's not about what you need to finish the game, it's about how you want to play it. Some people want to explore every last inch of every map, buy everything from every shop, find every hidden mission and get every upgrade. If the intent of planet scanning was to "slow down" people who are playing that way, well... that's pretty pathetic.

I'm not a fan of scanning, but for me it's a physical thing. I play the PC version, and holding the right mouse button down while dragging the mouse around gets very painful very fast. The trigger tapping that works on a controller doesn't work so well on a mouse, and it's still clumsy and eventually painful. I originally hacked the config so that the "rotate planet" keys were much faster, that way I could scan without it being painful. Eventually I just hacked the starting resoures. If the scan button was a toggle, I would probably enjoy scanning and wouldn't need to hack the config file (which I hate).

Actually I kind of wish the controller worked with the PC version, too, since that is how the game was primarily designed to be played.

Modifié par badkenbad, 27 avril 2010 - 02:28 .

[Ecael]

badkenbad wrote...

Hmm... recent discussion here gives me an idea. I'm thinking a no-upgrades Insanity run is in order.

I agree with massive_effect. It's not about what you need to finish the game, it's about how you want to play it. Some people want to explore every last inch of every map, buy everything from every shop, find every hidden mission and get every upgrade.

Some people also want to deplete every planet in ME2 or find every mineral and artifact in ME1. That doesn't mean it's worth doing in every playthrough, even if the option is available.



A no-upgrade Insanity New Game+ run with no heavy weapons or medi-gels is the highest difficulty you can get in Mass Effect 3. Of course, it'll result in a lot of moments where you'll want to tear your hair out, but it's always worth trying... once.

If the intent of planet scanning was to "slow down" people who are playing that way, well... that's pretty pathetic.

A lot of games that define themselves as RPGs have timesinks -- an 'artificial' component to extend the length of each playthrough. That way they can advertise as having "x amount of hours of gameplay!" while preventing people from complaining that the game is short.

Mass Effect 1 has Mako driving, decryption and inventory omni-gelling/selling. Mass Effect 2 has planet-scanning, hacking/circuitry and ammo gathering.

Everything listed above is required many times over to complete every single mission -- except for planet-scanning for minerals. The only time you're forced to planet scan is to detect an anomaly, and that's a very easy process in comparison to driving the Mako to your designated location (and back, in the case of Feros).

[massive_effect]

Ecael wrote...

A lot of games that define themselves as RPGs have timesinks -- an
'artificial' component to extend the length of each playthrough.

...and Planet Scanning is the absolute worst timesink in the history of video games.

[Ecael]

massive_effect wrote...

Ecael wrote...

A lot of games that define themselves as RPGs have timesinks -- an
'artificial' component to extend the length of each playthrough.

...and Planet Scanning is the absolute worst timesink in the history of video games.

Haven't played many MMORPGs, I assume?

[tee_bird]

Oddly, I had a lot of fun scanning.



In small doses, of course.

[badkenbad]

tee_bird wrote...

Oddly, I had a lot of fun scanning.

In small doses, of course.

You are sick and perverted.

[massive_effect]

probe away

[Christmas Ape]

Kick-ass headphones, a dark room, and something to smoke.



Let Chief Specialist Ape find your minerals. I'll coax 'em out of the static of the scanner like pearls from an oyster bed.



It's incredibly satisfying to do by ear, rather than trying to watch the spike.

[jonnyblueballs]

I actually have OCD, and went and scanned every ****ing planet possible. It was pretty painful.

[massive_effect]

jonnyblueballs wrote...

I actually have OCD, and went and scanned every ****ing planet possible. It was pretty painful.

You poor soul.

[massive_effect]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Kick-ass headphones, a dark room, and something to smoke.

Let Chief Specialist Ape find your minerals. I'll coax 'em out of the static of the scanner like pearls from an oyster bed.

It's incredibly satisfying to do by ear, rather than trying to watch the spike.

At least you found a way to get some joy out of such miserable circumstances.

[Onyx Jaguar]

massive_effect wrote...

probe away

probe away

[Onyx Jaguar]

Adriano87 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

probe away

probe away

it s good that I don't need to climb the mountains to find a Thorium Rock !

is EXCELLENT

[KalosCast]

Ecael wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

Ecael wrote...

A lot of games that define themselves as RPGs have timesinks -- an
'artificial' component to extend the length of each playthrough.

...and Planet Scanning is the absolute worst timesink in the history of video games.

Haven't played many MMORPGs, I assume?

The difference between MMORPGs and Single-Player games is that MMOs absolutely need ludicrous timesinks in order to keep that sweet, sweet subscription money flowing. Whereas in ME2 and other single-player games, there's no subscription fee, and really all they need to do is put out a game good enough to get people to buy it and the next game that the development team makes (usually the sequel), as well as rip-off DLC. There's no real reward for the time sink of scanning, and it's an actual penalty to probe at anything less than optimum effeciency, due to limited credits, it doesn't add to the immersion (how does orbital bombardment of the potentially settled planet's surface instantly get you several tons of rare ore? Why is my med bay made entirely from Platinum?)  and is therefore just an artificial gameplay lengthening device, more commonly known as "bad game design."

[Kileyan]

Ecael wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

Ecael wrote...

A lot of games that define themselves as RPGs have timesinks -- an
'artificial' component to extend the length of each playthrough.

...and Planet Scanning is the absolute worst timesink in the history of video games.

Haven't played many MMORPGs, I assume?

That is the problem, this timesink belongs in an MMO, along with quests to go out and kill 25 space rats and 15 space squirrels and collect their tails.

It doesn't belong in a single player rpg, that is heavily story and cinematic driven.

I would dare say, off the top of my head, this is the worst example of a timesink in any single play RPG. See, other games have timesinks, in many or most of them it is travel time. Thing is, for many hours, the travel time can be obfuscated with interesting things along the way, good visuals, ambient sounds, encounters. ME2 was basically a game about teleporting to set peice encounters over and over. They had to put in some timesinks, since there is essentially no travel and each map or major city is a couple cooridors. They just happened to have put in the worst thing ever, it would have been better off to just do away with the feature, than try to pad the gameplay hours.

I was scanning thread titles a while back, but didn't have time to read them. One thread alluded to a statement from Christina that they were very happy with the planet scanning and it was staying for ME3........truth?

[Mk001]

You can get the Advanced scanner from Miranda which speeds the process up and if you tap the scan button on and off quickly it will move alot faster and still give you an accurate scan.
I really have no problem with the scanning mini game its really not bad.

Modifié par Mk001, 31 mai 2010 - 08:15 .

[Kileyan]

Mk001 wrote...

You can get the Advanced scanner from Miranda which speeds the process up and if you tap the scan button on and off quickly it will move alot faster and still give you an accurate scan.
I really have no problem with the scanning mini game its really not bad.

First playthrough, and without spoilers, it isn't so bad, you can trick yourself into thinking you'll discover somethign new.

Subsequent plays, its just plain bad. You know its just a time sink task you must do. It is one of the major reasons I've never been able to play this game for many replays, like I did ME1. For peple that say they didn't mind it that much, would you rage over it being totally removed for some other automated mechanic?