348 réponses à ce sujet

[massive_effect]

scyphozoa wrote...

when i was playing on xbox, i scanned so much that it hurt my wrists. bioware's revenge is carpel tunnel syndrome

I forgot to mention that in my list. But, we'll assume that Bioware didn't intend physical harm.

[AlphaJarmel]

Space Shot wrote...

exboomer wrote...

Space Shot wrote...

Icinix wrote...

....I actually like the scanning mini game.

Me too, especially when compared to the stuff we had to put up with in the first game.

While the Mako was kind of repetitive at times the current planet scanning is much worse IMO. What they should of done is added villages and more variety to the planet missions but kept the Mako.

Meh, the mako's problem was in it's fundamental design, not it's implementation.  Even if you added more to a planet, you would have still had terrain frustrations, invariably awkward controls, and impossible to balance skirmishes so the game is better off without that sort of exploration.

However, if you added something more to scanning you would probably alleviate much of the problems with it.  Unlike the Mako, the tedium with a scanner is created by the time spent with it, and not necessarily the game mechanic itself (we've put up with far worse in ME1.)  So, if you just added a few extra "breaks" to encourage the player to manage their time more effectively, even if they were just a few extra fictional tid bits, superfluous items, or maybe even stock combat scenarios, you might just be able to create something that is wholely enjoyable.

That is pretty much all implementation.  A fundamental problem would be using a vehicle for planet exploration in the first place.  The terrain was a serious problem and doing something like a jetpack would pretty much null all those complaints.  All of the complaints people had with the Mako could have easily been fixed and it seems that it probably will be with the Hammerhead.  The thing with the scanning is that there is nothing exciting going on with it.  No danger of you dying, no action, nothing other than you holding the right trigger for god knows how long looking at different planet models.

Modifié par AlphaJarmel, 18 février 2010 - 08:53 .

[massive_effect]

Space Shot wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

Even if those problems were fixed, scanning is a pathetic joke of game design. For the amount of scanning required, that minigame is in the wrong place.

Better than playing the role of Sisyphus in a Mako.  I'll give you it's not the greatest example of game design, especially for gamers.  God knows how short their attention spans are.  But, it's an improvement on some of the worst things of ME1 and, ultimately, isn't that big of a deal even when viewed negatively.

Small part of a much grander package, you could say, and I wouldn't get so worked up about it.

Bioware did a great job in listening to the fans and implementing changes in ME2. Planet scanning as a minigame (ie, a game that takes less than 30 seconds, like hacking) might work, but it is a miserable failure as a mandatory sidequest.

[cancausecancer]

I don't have any friends who didn't like the mako stuff. I wonder how many people actually detested that part of the game.

[Sidney]

massive_effect wrote...
Bioware did a great job in listening to the fans and implementing changes in ME2. Planet scanning as a minigame (ie, a game that takes less than 30 seconds, like hacking) might work, but it is a miserable failure as a mandatory sidequest.

The mandatory part if  a big failing, time is the biggest, It would have been better to:

1. Have an unseen "mining ship" that you paid for and could upgrade that filled your ship with minerals as you roamed the galaxy.
2. Scan a planet and have it reveal all the "hotspots" and then decide what to hit with a probe.
3. Reduce the # of hotspots. Seriously on a Rich planet you can get 10 or more quality hits.
4. TIM is generous have everyone start with the 50k minerals in each category that you start with your second time through.

[Icinix]

I liked the idea of dropping portable mines on planets that slowly keep increasing your minerals until depletion. Then a mini side mission game could be using the Normandy to defend the mine from raiders, or even recapture it with it a combat orientated mission. There's possibility there for BioWare to introduce 'random' missions from a few templates to break things up.

I honestly don't mind the scanning mini-game, but think there's an opportunity to really expand on it.

[Space Shot]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

That is pretty much all implementation.  A fundamental problem would be using a vehicle for planet exploration in the first place.  The terrain was a serious problem and doing something like a jetpack would pretty much null all those complaints.  

LOL, and create so many more.  I mean honestly how do you expect building Dark Void in Mass Effect will solve anything.  Apart from invariably looking as unbelievably silly as possible and playing worse than most anything imaginable, you would take the tedium of the scanner and add it to slow, aimless, progression that comes from scouring square miles of terrain for a few interesting points.  You would naturally have to dump upgrade research (since you couldn't expect anyone to fully dedicate themselves to resource collection in this case) and have to resurrect the inventory system which really should be avoided at all costs.  It would return ME to the quagmire from whence it thankfully dragged itself out of to get to ME2, and really ruin the franchise from there-on out.

The thing with the scanning is that there is nothing exciting going on with it.  No danger of you dying, no action, nothing other than you holding the right trigger for god knows how long looking at different planet models.

 If you want non-stop action and danger around every turn, Mass Effect isn't the way to go.  I recommend Gears of War, or any other of the fine shooters out there that cater to your insatiable need for blood and combat.

However, if you want to play mass effect you probably need to reconcile the fact that not everything is built to give you cheap and instant thrills.  Some things, like exploration be it by ground or in orbit, will be slow, and it will be methodical.  So, you can either accept Mass Effect for the at-times tedious thing it is, or simply go somewhere else in search of something that better fits your tastes.

[Space Shot]

massive_effect wrote...

Space Shot wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

Even if those problems were fixed, scanning is a pathetic joke of game design. For the amount of scanning required, that minigame is in the wrong place.

Better than playing the role of Sisyphus in a Mako.  I'll give you it's not the greatest example of game design, especially for gamers.  God knows how short their attention spans are.  But, it's an improvement on some of the worst things of ME1 and, ultimately, isn't that big of a deal even when viewed negatively.

Small part of a much grander package, you could say, and I wouldn't get so worked up about it.

Bioware did a great job in listening to the fans and implementing changes in ME2. Planet scanning as a minigame (ie, a game that takes less than 30 seconds, like hacking) might work, but it is a miserable failure as a mandatory sidequest.

Here's the thing, it isn't.  If you don't want to scan there's nothing forcing you to.  Sure, you miss out on a few things but there is no quest saying to the like of "harvest 100,000 Iridium, get Reaper IFF."  It's all about incentive, and for something like scanning there at least needs to be some to justify it.  If you won't want to do something, that's fine, but don't expect to have your hand held and be given everything that a more enterprising person would have received were they to buy into the mechanics of the game.  That, simply put, would not be fair, and it isn't reasonable to hold that against the game.

[nicodeemus327]

Once I learned to scan only rich planets (and stop when they were no longer rich) the mini game became very bearable even enjoyable.

[ShuMaKisO]

I like scanning for some reason. Its nice between side/loyalty quest. Plus to get all the resources you need to fully upgrade maybe take 1hr max, if you go to the right systems and do some quick scanning. But I did em all cause its devilishly fun

"Once I learned to scan only rich planets (and stop when they were no
longer rich) the mini game became very bearable even enjoyable."

oh and this. sooooo true. on anything non rich I just check for anomoly and be on my merry way

Modifié par ShuMaKisO, 18 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[Tusbat]

If scanning and probing was limited to only a few planets, like ten or so, it would have been awesome. But given that you have to scan lots of planets to get all the upgrades, it fails miserably.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Space Shot,



Bioware has all but come out and stated that it is in everyones best interest to have all the upgrades, if you want everyone to survive,



in effect making them manditory.



But yea only scan rich/good planets anything below that is needle and haystack territory

[Sidney]

Space Shot wrote...
Here's the thing, it isn't.  If you don't want to scan there's nothing forcing you to.  Sure, you miss out on a few things but there is no quest saying to the like of "harvest 100,000 Iridium, get Reaper IFF." 

No, there's much more need to scan than there was to explore in ME1. All you missed in ME1 was that dumb heavy metals quest and some nomial # of XP. In ME2, you miss out on all the upgrades for your ships, weapons, armor, biotics and tech tools. That is a fairly harsh penalty to claim you can just pass up on it.

I'm the commander of the ship, don't I have minions who can scan the silly planet for me since it doesn't take any special skills that only a super-commando like me and my elite team posses.

[Kaorunandrak]

Meh if I dont feel like probeing I give the controller to my wife who actually enjoys it while i play with the baby. My only complaint is the rarity(at least in my game) of frikken platinum. I find money to be a larger problem then the mining game.



I would much rather find have more ways of earning cash rather then end of mish pay outs. Maybe sell the resources we find for money? Or allow us to buy the plans for weapon upgrades from shops(instead of the full upgrade) for a cheaper price since we would have to do the research our selves on the ship.



I dont know my last few play throughs I've ran out of cash for the last few upgrades and I cant figure out whats going on I've gotten all the discounts and did all the mishes. meh



But yeah back on topic if they allowed us to sell resources that might add to the whole experience for people.We'll just have to see whats up with the Hammerhead DLC thats supposed to be coming. I still hope they plan to add more post game DLC. I think there is alot they could add to the game to make not only the mining aspect tbut the whole game better.

[Space Shot]

Sidney wrote...

I'm the commander of the ship, don't I have minions who can scan the silly planet for me since it doesn't take any special skills that only a super-commando like me and my elite team posses.

So you're the Master Chief?  Really what are you expecting when coming into an sci-fi story?  Flash Gordon?  Really, there's more to space than that and that's part of what Bioware is apparently trying to show by having some form of exploration in Mass Effect.

Even still, you have plenty of super-commando action in Mass Effect 2 and if the few moments of downtime are too much for you, you might be spending time with the wrong game.

Modifié par Space Shot, 18 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[xenozombie]

Just a quick thought... I happen to like the mini games and I think Bioware did a great job improving them in ME2. But to me, the mini games serve another purpose. They are not just there to help me gather resources. It is a chance for me to reflect on the experience I have had so far and form a strategy for the game ahead. Sort of like the intermission period they used to have in the old epic movies. It gave you a chance to leave the theater for a few minutes, decompress for a moment, think about the characters and events, and then get ready for the conclusion.



Or think about it this way: Would Mass Effect have the same emotional impact if it was all non-stop action and you had no time to think about what you have done over the course of the game?

[CraigHB]

Planet scanning is one of the worst minigames I have ever encountered as not only does it carry the sin of being boring but also required.

I'll second that comment.  There are so many relatively simple things Bioware could have done to make this mini-game tolerable, even fun.  A few of them have already been mentioned, like a sticky scan mode.  Other things pop into mind for me like button controls for planet rotation, larger deposit areas, larger scanner coverage.

The main difference between planet scanning and the Mako is that you didn't *have* to go looking for minerals in the Mako if you didn't want to.  It was only a journal entry completed for finding them all and you could easily get by without the rewards they offered.

I suppose you could play ME2 without doing any upgrades through the research terminal.  That would remove the requirement to scan planets.  However, they removed a huge chunk of the upgrade inventory in ME2 so it makes an already sparse upgrade array outright barren.

[Kangasniemi]

Kaorunandrak wrote...

Meh if I dont feel like probeing I give the controller to my wife who actually enjoys it while i play with the baby. My only complaint is the rarity(at least in my game) of frikken platinum. I find money to be a larger problem then the mining game.

I would much rather find have more ways of earning cash rather then end of mish pay outs. Maybe sell the resources we find for money? Or allow us to buy the plans for weapon upgrades from shops(instead of the full upgrade) for a cheaper price since we would have to do the research our selves on the ship.

I dont know my last few play throughs I've ran out of cash for the last few upgrades and I cant figure out whats going on I've gotten all the discounts and did all the mishes. meh

But yeah back on topic if they allowed us to sell resources that might add to the whole experience for people.We'll just have to see whats up with the Hammerhead DLC thats supposed to be coming. I still hope they plan to add more post game DLC. I think there is alot they could add to the game to make not only the mining aspect tbut the whole game better.

The whole point of the money system is that you must make some choices. You can't have everything. Though I haven't had any problem with money (if it only was so in real life...)

But on mining, there is nothing wrong about it. It works fine and it is an awesome way to pace the game. If you can't hold your consentration for long enough to do some planet scanning, then this is the wrong game for you.

And this has been said a million times before, but people don't seem to get it: if the planet is RICH or GOOD scan it. If not keep moving.

[Unit-Alpha]

massive_effect wrote...

Icinix wrote...

....I actually like the scanning mini game.

Did you beat the game yet? The more you play, the more you hate scanning. Trust me.

Run through ME2 once and then import a save: 60k of each. Saves a ton of time and if you selectively upgrade, you hardly need to scan at all.

[Sailears]

It doesn't help that the planets look like glorified marbles.

[MonkeyLungs]

CraigHB wrote...

Planet scanning is one of the worst minigames I have ever encountered as not only does it carry the sin of being boring but also required.

I'll second that comment.  There are so many relatively simple things Bioware could have done to make this mini-game tolerable, even fun.  A few of them have already been mentioned, like a sticky scan mode.  Other things pop into mind for me like button controls for planet rotation, larger deposit areas, larger scanner coverage.

The main difference between planet scanning and the Mako is that you didn't *have* to go looking for minerals in the Mako if you didn't want to.  It was only a journal entry completed for finding them all and you could easily get by without the rewards they offered.

I suppose you could play ME2 without doing any upgrades through the research terminal.  That would remove the requirement to scan planets.  However, they removed a huge chunk of the upgrade inventory in ME2 so it makes an already sparse upgrade array outright barren.

TRUTH.

I am on my 5th playthrough. I am very fast and efficient at planet scanning. I have my own guide to doing the n7 missions I enjoy + scanning and getting all them minerals I need. I still can't stand scanning. It is really boring. I do however, like to take advantage of getting the upgrades. It's the only character upgrading I can do in this game aside from spending skill points at level up. The upgrades are not all essential but they do add to my fun. Scanning detracts from my fun and feels like a chore. Why is there something in the game that feels like a chore?

This reminds me vaguely of playing original EQ back in the day when you had to take a boat to get from Faydwer(sp?) to Freeport. I had friends that were all like "This is a great time to kick back and make some arrows or do some other crafting!" I was all like, this boat sucks and it's a great time to go the shop and grab a couple beers.

I don't want chore-like aspects to my games. RPG's or not. The fun parts of Mass Effect revolve around character building, questing, talking to NPC's, COLLAR GRABBING, throwing Krogan off of ledges with Biotics, and shooting mercs in the face. Scanning planets really feels out of place.

Reform planet scanning please!

[Beastfoot]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Planet scanning is one of the worst minigames I have ever encountered as not only does it carry the sin of being boring but also required.

Where do I sign?

[massive_effect]

Sidney wrote...

The mandatory part if  a big failing, time is the biggest, It would have been better to:

1. Have an unseen "mining ship" that you paid for and could upgrade that filled your ship with minerals as you roamed the galaxy.
2. Scan a planet and have it reveal all the "hotspots" and then decide what to hit with a probe.
3. Reduce the # of hotspots. Seriously on a Rich planet you can get 10 or more quality hits.
4. TIM is generous have everyone start with the 50k minerals in each category that you start with your second time through.

This is similar to what I've been saying. I've suggested that they should follow Peter Molynuex's example in the Fable 2 economy. Just like renting homes and upgrading them with furniture to increase rent, buy satellites (your unseen mining ship), and send "unseen" digging crews to mine the findings.

[Sidney]

Space Shot wrote...
So you're the Master Chief?  Really what are you expecting when coming into an sci-fi story?  Flash Gordon?  Really, there's more to space than that and that's part of what Bioware is apparently trying to show by having some form of exploration in Mass Effect.

Even still, you have plenty of super-commando action in Mass Effect 2 and if the few moments of downtime are too much for you, you might be spending time with the wrong game.

Few moments is hardly an apt description especially first time through and early in the game while you build up your inventory of minerals faced with a small set of probes and limited fuel. Second time through I'm breezing a bit because I've got the "bonus" materials but that's not the most typical experience

I'm really trying to hard to be nice with your smug superiority bit but spinning a globe while holding a button is your vision of a sci-fi epic? Seriously? Should you go down and recalibrate the couplings for the engineers as well? That's part of "space" right - get that real feel of being on a starship?

There's no particular reason to do the globe spinning...I'd rather see the effort from the devs that built that part of the game tossed at some more dialog....you know the part of the game that is interesting.

[bommi2603]

massive_effect wrote...

Icinix wrote...

....I actually like the scanning mini game.

Did you beat the game yet? The more you play, the more you hate scanning. Trust me.

lol thats so true! i liked it until the middle of the game, i´ve got 100,000 units of the last three mineral/materials etc... but then...omg please not again this scanning thing

mh i want the mako in ME3, because i liked it to drive that thing on feros and noveria